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Bismuth manages my bb

Everything related with bad breath can be found here. Everything about products, research, news about bad breath......
halitosisux
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Postby halitosisux » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:57 am

Thanks for the feedback Mac, congrats to you. Thread is now stickied


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Mac
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Postby Mac » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:31 pm

Thanks hali. Hope you're doing well. And thanks searching for the thread.

mindyb
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Postby mindyb » Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:27 pm

Searching, you mention low carbs helping your breath. Have you have tried removing gluten? Wheat seems to set off my breath like no other. I had a wheat bread sandwich after my mouth feel feeling neutral from bismuth, aspirin.

I've started grocery shopping for gluten free and plan to start in a few days.
Odd memory but when I went to college, I began eating wheat bread sandwiches in the cafeteria and drank lots of beer. My breath horror began, and I know the gluten level in food has risen in the past 15 years.

I know celiacs don't always have bad breath, but every body reacts differently.

searching
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Postby searching » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:07 pm

mindyb wrote:Searching, ...Have you have tried removing gluten? Wheat seems to set off my breath like no other. I know celiacs don't always have bad breath, but every body reacts differently.

Hi mindyb,

Perhaps there is a connection with celiac disease and BB.

The link seen here, from the University of Chicago, Celiac Disease Center, indicates Immunoglobulin A (IgA) Deficiency and IgA Nephropathy as possible symptoms of celiac disease. These immunoglobulins are credited with regulating the oral ecology in healthy people. Many other symptoms are mentioned as well.

I haven't [yet] performed the test of gluten versus my BB; however, I agree that there may be a connection for some of us.

mindyb
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Postby mindyb » Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:23 am

Wow, I have alot on that list, but I think everyone can identify with a lot of those symptoms.

Bells ringing for me, because years back I had success with taking LARGE amounts of super Colostrum, which helps IgA deficiency. It got expensive and I was taking like 20+ pills a day.

Just bought some Gluten Free bread today, giving it a go tomorrow. I would like to stick to it for 3 months before making any assumptions.

Also, if anyone wants to download the Shop Well App on their phone (free) it scans bar codes for gluten, dairy, high carb or fat and alot of intolerances. Its crazy what has gluten in it!

thanks for the responses Searching, let me know if you decide to give a try.


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Postby angst-ridden » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:13 am

My BB is caused by bacterial imbalance, so I intend to try Pepto-Bismol. But I can't find any tablet variant of PB. Would the liquid form suffice? Here's what I found available in my country: http://www.olx.ph/index.php/view+classi ... pto+bismol

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Postby searching » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:51 pm

angst-ridden wrote:I intend to try Pepto-Bismol. I can't find any tablet variant of PB. Would the liquid form suffice?

Yes, the liquid form is a good substitute.

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Postby english15 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:34 pm

If pepto bismol is helping you almost certainly have a bacterial dysbiosis and the bacteria and yeast are fermenting the various sugars in your small intestine. These gases are then being absorbed through the intestine into the blood stream and being excreted following gas exchange at your lungs along with C02 on your breath... Have you had a SIBO test? Hydrogen AND Methane Breath test with a Lactulose (not lactose!) challenge??

If not, I suggest you do. Why? because empiraclly bsimuth is helping which suggests that you are producing gases and this is being used in the process to oxidise the smelly odors produced. Also bismuth is, as you point out, antimicrobial and is used in conjunction with antibiotic therapy as it assists in damaging the biofilms which bacteria colonies use to shield themselves from the antibiotic/antimicrobial effects. As such, bismuth working would possibly be indicative that you are suffering from a gut dysbiosis and all of the ancilllary effects which typically ensue from this state of affairs (overburdened liver, impaired metabolic pathways, leaky gut etc).

Did you per chance take long courses or repeated courses of antibiotics for things like acne in your earlier life?? Often this tends to be a regular finding in people's histories when these persistent odors are present and where personal hygiene has been ruled out as a cuase.

snoopsister
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Postby snoopsister » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:54 pm

Al right. I am someone who gives up too easily. On way to store to get chewable pepto so what exactly is the protocol. ? Thanks guys and never, never, never give up hope!! :D

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Postby Mac » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:43 pm

english15 wrote:If pepto bismol is helping you almost certainly have a bacterial dysbiosis and the bacteria and yeast are fermenting the various sugars in your small intestine. These gases are then being absorbed through the intestine into the blood stream and being excreted following gas exchange at your lungs along with C02 on your breath... Have you had a SIBO test? Hydrogen AND Methane Breath test with a Lactulose (not lactose!) challenge??

If not, I suggest you do. Why? because empiraclly bsimuth is helping which suggests that you are producing gases and this is being used in the process to oxidise the smelly odors produced. Also bismuth is, as you point out, antimicrobial and is used in conjunction with antibiotic therapy as it assists in damaging the biofilms which bacteria colonies use to shield themselves from the antibiotic/antimicrobial effects. As such, bismuth working would possibly be indicative that you are suffering from a gut dysbiosis and all of the ancilllary effects which typically ensue from this state of affairs (overburdened liver, impaired metabolic pathways, leaky gut etc).

Did you per chance take long courses or repeated courses of antibiotics for things like acne in your earlier life?? Often this tends to be a regular finding in people's histories when these persistent odors are present and where personal hygiene has been ruled out as a cuase.


Good information, english15, thanks. If what you say is true, that the reason Pepto-Bismol works is because it's having an effect in the intestines, then swallowing them rather than letting them dissolve in my mouth would still be beneficial. Do you agree? Because my tonsils smell when I don't take them and there is no smell from the tonsils when I do, I took this as an indication that the bad breath is from the mouth. Also the black residue left from the bismuth I thought was a reaction to the bacteria in the mouth. What is your take on this? Do you think the gases from the intestine could cause tonsils to smell?

A quick update on my situation; this is still working for me. I even managed to get myself a girlfriend and I asked her outright one day if my breath smelt and she said it doesn't smell at all. I have seen no reactions from her to suggest that I do smell but the paranoia does still linger a little bit. I'm so grateful for this though. Even though I'm not cured I can enjoy life much better now without this horrible burden.

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Postby compor » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:53 pm

Hello Mac,

I'm glad to hear that Pepto Bismol is working for you but you should keep in mind (from wikipedia):

Long-term use (greater than 6 weeks) may lead to accumulation and toxicity.[5] Some of the risks of salicylism can apply to the use of bismuth subsalicylate.[6][7][8]

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Postby Mac » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:20 pm

Thanks Compor. I looked into Bismuth toxicity and I became a bit concerned so I've stopped taking this for a while and have just been oil pulling with coconut oil. It's been a couple of weeks I think since I stopped taking it and I haven't noticed the bb returning. However today I've been getting the lump in the back of the throat feeling again and it made me paranoid. Don't think my breath is bad at the moment but I'm anticipating it getting worse.

Do you have any knowledge on how much bismuth is too much. If I kept it to one tablet every couple of days do you think this could have any adverse effects?

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compor
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Postby compor » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:39 pm

Bismuth Toxicity

Bismuth is chemical element 83 and is considered one of the least toxic heavy metals. Since the early 18th century, bismuth has been used topically and in oral preparations for many common gastrointestinal (GI) upsets. Ninety-nine percent of ingested bismuth is not absorbed by the human body, and it passes unaltered through the feces. The small percentage that is absorbed into the body through the upper GI tract is distributed throughout all the body's tissues with slightly higher concentrations in the liver and kidneys. Absorbed bismuth is not metabolized and is eliminated from the body via renal or hepatic processes.

Normal serum levels of bismuth should fall below 15 ug/L, with the toxicity threshold occurring when levels reach 50 ug/L or greater. Mild symptoms have been documented in patients with serum levels in the mid 30s ug/L. Severity of symptoms is related to the level of bismuth found in the serum. Initially, there is a prodromal phase with alterations of mood and sleep, specifically insomnia, lethargy, apathy, malaise, anxiety, and irritability. These symptoms are noted first usually by spouses and family members. This phase can last for weeks or months as bismuth levels continue to rise. At some point, there is a rapid escalation in symptoms and encephalopathy occurs. Neurologic symptoms worsen markedly in a 24- to 48-hour period and include instability, ataxia, confusion, short-term memory impairment, dysarthria, hallucinations, parasthesias, seizures, and myoclonic jerks. Somnolence and coma can occur. With high levels of toxicity, there is the possibility of hepatic and renal failure.

Subtle physical findings can lend clues to bismuth toxicity over serotonin syndrome or Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. These include blackening of the tongue, dark or bluish lines in the gums, blackened stool that is heme negative, and blackened granules that can appear at the follicular orifices. The latter can be washed away but recurs within 1-2 days.

Upon discontinuation of bismuth, many patients make a full recovery. Recovery can take up to 12 months with some patients experiencing mild residual problems with short-term memory. Chelation is not recommended as there have not been any that have proven to be particularly effective.
(http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/742233_2)

I think it would be quite risky to continue using bismuth. Most doctors recommend using it for 4 to 6 weeks then discontinue for 2 months.

If I remember correct, there are 3 methods to detect bismuth level in the system: hair, blood and urine. One option might be taking 1 pill every 2 days then get your bismuth level tested. You should immediately stop using if you encounter any side effects.

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Re: Bismuth manages my bb

Postby ttylxman2 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:40 pm

I have a few questions for those who have experience with Bismuth.

1) Is it possible for it to take days of use before it reaches max efficiency? I've been using it sparingly on special occasions or when I'm stuck around other people for long periods of time like planes. It worked well but never anything that felt like a cure. Because of the warnings for toxicity, I didn't see any point in taking it regularly if I couldn't use it long-term.

2) If you stop regular use, does it keep working for many days afterwards before you return to baseline?

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Re: Bismuth manages my bb

Postby blessedrich » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:20 pm

ttylxman2 wrote:I have a few questions for those who have experience with Bismuth.

1) Is it possible for it to take days of use before it reaches max efficiency? I've been using it sparingly on special occasions or when I'm stuck around other people for long periods of time like planes. It worked well but never anything that felt like a cure. Because of the warnings for toxicity, I didn't see any point in taking it regularly if I couldn't use it long-term.

2) If you stop regular use, does it keep working for many days afterwards before you return to baseline?


From my personal experience this stops being effective if used continuously. But if I break and come back to it it become effective again. I also can tell of it's effectiveness because my poop is not black again after continuous use and
I get reactions.

I now use it only for emergencies and i have to wait a while after use before i go public because the smell after immediate use is worse than my regular smell but after the initial smell goes away I get no reactions.



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