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Murat Aydin

Everything related with bad breath can be found here. Everything about products, research, news about bad breath......
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aydinmur
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Murat Aydin

Post by aydinmur »

According to some of you, I dont aware from your questions asked to me on the forum.

Ask any question(s) to me under this subject if you are needing my opinion

I will try to check this subject more often.

- Murat


halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

Thank you for being here to help answer our questions.

Could you please tell me whether a small amount of tongue odour is normal? By tongue odour, I mean when a finger is rubbed onto the back of the tongue and there is some immediate odour present on the finger.

In other words, what I'm trying to ask is, can a person whose breath does not smell bad, still have some degree of tongue odour?

I've always wondered at what threshold my own tongue odours begin to appear as odour on my breath.

I know for a fact that saliva can smell and yet the person's breath does not. I have tested this with my nephews. I was just wondering whether this applies to tongue odour too.
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aydinmur
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Post by aydinmur »

halitosisux wrote: In other words, what I'm trying to ask is, can a person whose breath does not smell bad, still have some degree of tongue odour?
You always asked good questions.
Some odorus molecules are volatil but somes less. By put your finger on tongue dorsum, you bring low volatil molecules. For this reason a person whose breath does not smell bad, may still have tongue odour. For example, indol and its derivates (scatol) are usually dont enter breath, but can be detected with sniffing finger or saliva.

For the same reason, ice temporary stops Type 1 odor. Volatile molecules are condensed and collapsed on mucosal surfaces with cold.
-M
ThisSucks
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Post by ThisSucks »

Mr.Aydin you are my hero. I have always wondered this.
Thank you Halitosisux and your brain for asking this question.
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Post by sputnik »

Hello Mr Murat

Its been a while since I posted, but I do have some questions for you.

I believe I suffer from type 3 or 4 halitosis. I am not certain anymore.

I have a long history of digestive tract disorders such as hiatal hernia, chronic gastritis, acid reflux, I have had 2 duodenal ulcers which I have cured, and I usually go back and forth from constipation to very loose stools.

I have tried psylium husk, bentonite clay, chlorella and other chlorophyll products, probiotics, I've even done a 7 day cleansing / fasting with no success.

I have noticed that when I eat certain foods such as diary products, I release a strong body odor. Since coming to this realization, stoped eating diary foods and started taking oil of oregano.

It actually helped a lot. Halitosis had decreased (according to reactions) but not gone. The manufacturer also warned against long term use of the product. So I switched to colloidal silver and supplemented with probiotics. It worked even better, but still far from a cure.

Im thinking that maybe my problem is the liver or kidneys, What do you think.
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Post by aydinmur »

ThisSucks, thank you for your trust.
Sputnik, I dont know whether or not your problem is the liver or kidneys.
-M
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Post by planet »

Dr Adynmur,

What you suggest for getting rid of bb type 1: oxigen peroxide,
zinc mouthwashes have failed (which is my case), does that mean that my problem is not in the mouth?
halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

ThisSucks, thanks for that brain compliment lol.

Aydinmur, thank you for your reply. I think what you've said is really important to understand. It probably relates to the same reason why bad tastes rarely correspond to having bad breath and why people who truly do have bad breath can usually remain oblivious to it. It's easy to understand how halitophobia can occur when our understandings can be so wrong like this.

Can you please tell us what type of "finger test" odours do tend to result in having bad breath?

For example, say if I can smell a vinegar-like odour, or an odour that smells like battery acid, or silicone bath sealant, does that type of odour generally appear on the breath if the tongue smells this way?
Also, likewise, can you please tell us which types of "finger test" odour do not tend to enter the breath?

I just did a wikipedia search for indol (indole?) and scatole (skatole?):-

Indole:-
"Indole is a solid at room temperature. Indole can be produced by bacteria as a degradation product of the amino acid tryptophan. It occurs naturally in human feces and has an intense fecal odor. At very low concentrations, however, it has a flowery smell,[1] and is a constituent of many flower scents (such as orange blossoms) and perfumes. It also occurs in coal tar."

Skatole:-
"Skatole or 3-methylindole is a mildly toxic white crystalline organic compound belonging to the indole family. It occurs naturally in feces (it is produced from tryptophan in the mammalian digestive tract) and coal tar, and has a strong fecal odor. In low concentrations, it has a flowery smell and is found in several flowers and essential oils"

My tongue used to smell strongly of a mixture of vinegar and silicone bath sealer and a flowery/fecal/tonsillolith odour. Today it smells faintly of the same, but only after a long period of stagnation.
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Post by aydinmur »

planet wrote:
1- What you suggest for getting rid of bb type 1: oxigen peroxide,


2- zinc mouthwashes have failed (which is my case), does that mean that my problem is not in the mouth?
There are two questions in your post:
1- You can use 3% hydrogen peroxyde twice daily for few weeks. Sometimes this supports type 1 treatment

2- Commercial mouthwashs contain alcohol, sweetener, colored dyes , sls or any other additives . Each of them is potential odor source after hours with distinct mechanism. For this reason I always make test with Zn solution (not commercial Zn rinse)

My answer is : "yes" If Zn solution doesnt inhibit initial odor level at least 1-2 hours, at least more than 20%, then I strongly think non-type 1 halitosis present at that patient.
-M
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Post by aydinmur »

halitosisux wrote:Can you please tell us what type of "finger test" odours do tend to result in having bad breath?
I prohibit my patients to check their halitosis with smell their finger, wrist, dental floss, cotton piece or any other object after inserted it into their mouth or throat. Such behavior makes them Type 5 case within months or years.

If an odorous molecule is not vaporized spontaneously from mucosal surfaces, so don't tamper it. Leave it. There is not zero odor. Forget it.

Yes, Indole and skatole is synthesized from tryptophan by some bacteria.
Colorless, solid (not gas at 25 C) , resolved 3.5 gr per liter of water. This means it is difficult to detect indole odor if medium is not dry.

Important that indole is never found alone. 1 mol ammonia and pyruvate also appears during tryptophanolysis. These muıltiplies the bad odor of indole. Dont panic these are soluble in water (saliva). NH3 decreases Eh, but enhances pH of saliva. This redox profile makes biologic media can produce more odor. On the other hand NH3 have specific bad odor even alone. Indol acetic acid is also temporary molecule have bad odor. Eventually, indol turns to skatole.

When 1 mol tryptophan is metabolized, those appear: 39% skatole, 7% indole, 4% Indol acetic acid, others ammonia, pyruvate, CO2, alcohols etc..

Whats mean of this?
This is the fact that indole is not major problem. The bigger problem is skatole. Because skatole consists of methylated indol. As a general rule= if a methyl (-CH3 radix) is inserted into a molecule, that molecule gains bad odor. Every methyl gives more odor to that base molecule:
Hydrohen sulfide ---> bad odor
Methyl sulfide ---> worse odor
Dimethyl sulfide ---> worst odor
Trimethyl sulfide ---> worse of worst odor
With similar way, Trimethyl aminuri and methylated alkans have bad odor. because they contain "methyl".

Third carbon of indole attracts methyl and tightly binds it, thus, welcome skatole as methylindol. Now we have some problem because skatole is lesser soluble and have worse odor than indole.
I can say above items with my horrible English
-M
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Post by meowkity1 »

I love what he said about ice. I always would bring ice if I had to be around people because i noticed a long time ago that it helped neutralize the odor
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Post by meowkity1 »

Dr. Aydinmur, do anaerobic pockets show up on x-ray? For two years I have puffy gums just by 1 tooth and dental professionals keep saying Im OK. After cleaing with salt yesterday, I believe Im tasting pus when I lick the area.
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Post by Source »

Dr. Aydinmur,

Can you please explain to me what it is indicative of when the water from which I drink starts to change its smell and taste a few minutes after I have drank from the cup?

I've noticed (and confirmed by others) that the taste and smell of the water change after I have taken a sip of it (2-3 minutes after).
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Post by Brad123 »

Dr. Aydinmur,

Does salt or sodium play a beneficial role in keeping the tongue pinkish/red? I have noticed this many times.

Maybe bad breath is related to the sodium/water balance in all cells of the body.

Drinking too much water may eliminate too much sodium from the cells, which could lead to a white coating on the tongue. Could this be true?
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Post by lost1234 »

Dr. Aydinmur,
Do you have many type 5 patients?
I ask this because all of my tests I have done on checking and asking people about my breath, they all tell me they do not smell any bad breath. Even people who I have meet from this forum.

I know 1 thing for sure, I do make people rub their nose when talking to me. I am 99.9% sure of this as I believe most people on this forum believe too. I have seen people with chronic bad breath talk to people and no nose rubs. This leads me to believe nose rubs do not 100 % mean bad breath. If in fact I am type 5 halitosis, do you know why myself and alot of people on this forum make people rub their nose?
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