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NOTANYMORE
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Post by NOTANYMORE »

Hey Corpse, hope you are doing well and thank you for your questions. I will start by cutting to the chase. The surgery has not eliminated my BB. That being said, I know my breath has improved. The surgery has eliminated the dry throat and bitter taste from the reflux. However, the throat mucus has returned and continues to be an all day problem. As long as the mucus doesn't dry, I can't sense any halitosis. I have noted that the throat mucus is no longer dark in the morning because it doesn't dry as much during the night. It is also easier to clear upon waking. I am only 3 weeks post op so it is still early in the recover process. I am on a soft food diet for one more week after which I can begin to experiment with solids.
I had a follow up with the surgeon last week at which time I explained the continuing throat mucus. He said that the problem should have been fixed right after surgery if it was truly related to stomach reflux. We both agreed that the surgery was worthwhile either way and that I am making great progress. He told me to give it more time to heal and we will do a couple more tests to help try and figure out the throat mucus. I have great doctors so I remain confident that I will one day figure this out. Here are some general observations in my case.
1) No mucus = No halitosis
2) Mucus/throat not as dry after surgery
3) No bitter, acid taste after surgery
4) Mucus sometimes has a snot flavor (could it be PND even though I can't sense it dripping?)
5) Have stopped all dairy with a little improvement
6) Swallows don't clear the food through because of the mucus. This leads to bits of food staying in the throat and decomposing. This, along with the bacteria harboring properties of mucus are what is causing the halitosis. I would not have halitosis otherwise.
6) Overall improvement of halitosis but not cured.

A last note: My daughter is having issues with throat clearing every morning and she feels like food is getting stuck just like me. It is usualy after eating soft foods. We were at a birthday party and we both had the same cake. Right after eating we both had the same symptoms and were trying to clear it from our throats. Is it a food allergy? I am concerned for her as I would do anything to keep her from this kind of life. She has no halitosis....

A final note: I am going to try a few more tests, etc and am going to push for a diagnosis. If this problem does not go away, I am going to try and make a case for disability as I am unable to effectively communicate at work or in public. When my throat is dry for any reason, I can have terrible halitosis that smells for a few feet which is socialy crippling as well. It is time to stop skirting the issue and being forced to live with it despite countless dollars spent to find a cure. If this is to be the rest of my life, than I will fight for the right not to have to report to work ashamed and afraid of who I am going to offend and how they are going to react.


Corpsebreath
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Post by Corpsebreath »

Thanks for the update. Good to hear it has at least improved your situation.

About the mucus. I think it could be PND. I actually don't feel my PND drip down myself. It's just the taste of it that i can feel. And if i look at the back of my throat in a mirror i can often see some white phlegm sitting there. But i know it's coming from the nasopharynx because i can pull it down myself with the help of my tongue. It's kind of hard to explain but if i close my mouth and hold my breath, then sort of stick my tongue up against the palate while pushing it back, it creates a vacuum and then the PND will flow down. I have also put an endoscope up the nasopharynx, looking around, and i have seen a lot of phlegm there. White in color. When i pull the phlegm down and taste it, it has this sour and bitter taste. The same taste that i have in my mouth almost all the time, but significantly more concentrated. Pretty sure, in my case, the BB is caused by that mucus/phlegm.

To be fair NOTANYMORE, if your mucus is not PND then what else would it be? It has to come from either the nasopharynx, the stomach, or the lungs, doesn't it? You have pretty much ruled out the stomach, and unless you have severe cough, i think it must be PND.
NOTANYMORE
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Post by NOTANYMORE »

Ok so here is another update.
3 days ago I had a sinuplasty in which the doctor threaded a catheter into the opening of the maxillary and frontal sinuses. A balloon was then inflated in order to increase diameter of the openings and allow for better drainage. The doctor also flushed the sinuses with saline using a different catheter called a vortex which flushes in a circular motion to better disrupt the biofilm. This was done on an outpatient basis and it took about an hour. No sedation was used, only lidocaine. The procedure was not painfull.

Results: The doctor had to flush out a snot ball prior to going in with the catheter. He said my right side was oozing and generaly indicates chronic sinusitis. He didn't get any purulent material when he flushed so he didn't feel the need to culture anything. He gave me azythromycin and prednisone for the swelling and infection.
I am currently enjoying no halitosis at all but it could be from the antibiotics so I will give it some time. I now know for sure that the mucus was indeed coming from my sinuses as I continue to have that PND feeling only it contains blood from the surgery. This is 100% proof that my sinuses are directly related to my halitosis via PND. As I have stated previously, when I don't have PND, I don't have halitosis. I am thankfull that at least I know my problem now.
Also, despite the bloody mucus, I can breath better and can finaly suck in air while closing either side of my nose. Prior to this surgery, I would get a snot sound and could barely get air to pass through my nose.
The doctor told me a story that him and his wife (his PA) were doing this exam on a guy and afterward the wife asked the doctor if he had farted in during the operation. The doctor told me it was actually the sinus material that he was flushing out which had been in there so long it was basicaly abscessed and putrid. I wonder why he told me that story. Could it be that he smelled that on me as well? At any rate I thought I should share it because it seems relevant here.
I will tell you this as well. As some people know, I do cat scans for a living. I have seen and smelled just about everything on a human being. One thing that always sticks with me is that any time I smell that fecal smell, unless the patient had a bowel movement, it is always related to an infection. We had one guy with a lung infection that was so bad he stunk up an entire emergency room waiting room! He only came to the hospital after his family begged him because of the stench. The smell was pure shit and after I scanned his chest, my CT room stunk for at least 15 minutes afterwards.

Anyway, I will keep you all updated. I have no regrets about anything I have done or will do to fix this problem. I have been at this for 13 years and it took me multiple surgeries and countless dollars to arrive at a definitive cause. Unfortunatly, chronic sinusitis is not easily cured which explains why antibiotics have worked in the past and why some types dont work at all. I may end up getting full on sinus surgery to scrape out the sinus infection if this doesnt work but I remain hopefull.
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Keep Smiling
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Post by Keep Smiling »

That is a good news, wish your enjoyment last forever ^^.
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FedUp
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Post by FedUp »

Congrats!!!! This sounds really promising!!

I don't know why but I laughed out loud at the doctor being asked if he had farted.... (sad reality for us sufferers but you gotta laugh sometimes).

I am going to another ENT doc soon to see about a similiar procedure.

Did the doc suggest what had caused the PND?
Tonsillectomy - Check
Sinus CT Scan - All Clear - Check
Dentist Examination - "Gums very good" - Check
Endoscopy - Check - H Pylori Negative
Post nasal space cyst removed - Check
Wisdom Teeth Extraction - Check
Mouth Swab Clear - Check
Cres
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Post by Cres »

NOTANYMORE wrote:We had one guy with a lung infection that was so bad he stunk up an entire emergency room waiting room! He only came to the hospital after his family begged him because of the stench. The smell was pure shit and after I scanned his chest, my CT room stunk for at least 15 minutes afterwards.
Did this guy with the lung infection have any symptoms related to general lung infections such as fever and coughing or was it just bad breath? What did you find in his lungs?
• Fecal halitosis since age 12
• TMAU negative
• Still looking for cure
• Feel free to contact me for anything
NOTANYMORE
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Post by NOTANYMORE »

FedUp wrote:Congrats!!!! This sounds really promising!!

I don't know why but I laughed out loud at the doctor being asked if he had farted.... (sad reality for us sufferers but you gotta laugh sometimes).

I am going to another ENT doc soon to see about a similiar procedure.

Did the doc suggest what had caused the PND?
Are you getting a FESS? Have you had any CT scans of your sinuses that showed infection?

This ENT said the PND is probably from the sinusitis and blockages. The last ENT blamed all my symptoms on reflux. Well after having my stomach fixed the symptoms never went away so I got a second opinion.
NOTANYMORE
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Post by NOTANYMORE »

Cres wrote:
NOTANYMORE wrote:We had one guy with a lung infection that was so bad he stunk up an entire emergency room waiting room! He only came to the hospital after his family begged him because of the stench. The smell was pure shit and after I scanned his chest, my CT room stunk for at least 15 minutes afterwards.
Did this guy with the lung infection have any symptoms related to general lung infections such as fever and coughing or was it just bad breath? What did you find in his lungs?
In CT we only see the patient for a few minutes and usually know very little about them in terms of vital signs. He was coughing and I would assume he had a fever since his scan showed a massive lung infection.

We also had another lady who smelled up an entire lobby because she ate kimchi every day. Not kidding, you could smell the fermentation from 50 feet away! It's realy odd how strong smells tend to linger for sveral minutes after the source leaves.

On a side note, You should see that nasty crud that I am blowing out of my nose. It looks infected with brown, green and yellow coloring. I hope the antibiotics and improved sinus drainage will give me some relief. I have learned from prior experience that you need to give yourself months to determine if you are "cured". Therefore, please do not look to this as a miracle or anything and let me give you periodic updates.
halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

NOTANYMORE my mum had surgery on her nose multiple times. Each time, the ENT said he'd wash out her sinuses at the same time. I can also remember her neighbour mentioning having this done too. Both had chronic sinusitis, probably caused by just having poor sinus aspiration so the issue never resolves. Is this opening up with a balloon a permanent thing?
Good luck on this. Chronic sinusitis is common, and maybe most people get away with not smelling bad, but all it takes is some kind of buildup of crap in there to become a walking stinkbomb, especially if it seems to be coming from one side.
NOTANYMORE
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Post by NOTANYMORE »

halitosisux wrote:NOTANYMORE my mum had surgery on her nose multiple times. Each time, the ENT said he'd wash out her sinuses at the same time. I can also remember her neighbour mentioning having this done too. Both had chronic sinusitis, probably caused by just having poor sinus aspiration so the issue never resolves. Is this opening up with a balloon a permanent thing?
Good luck on this. Chronic sinusitis is common, and maybe most people get away with not smelling bad, but all it takes is some kind of buildup of crap in there to become a walking stinkbomb, especially if it seems to be coming from one side.
Hey Halitosux, nice to hear from you and I hope you are doing well. The doctor said the surgery is long lasting and potentialy for life. He said we can do it again if we ever have to although he doubts it. To my knowledge, this is a newish procedure and there aren't any long-term studies yet. I was offered a full sinus surgery to scrape out the diseased tissue In addition to the sinuplasty. I declined for now since I had the stomach surgery only 2 months ago...lol. Hell, I even had that tonsilectomy a year ago as well. I think I will take a break from having anymore real surgeries for a while...:)
halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

Hey, thanks. I'm doing great ty. It's fantastic to read about this latest development and the fact you've managed to find such a good ENT who is willing to try these things.

If you want to make a thread on this separate subject, I'll sticky it. If not then I'll sticky this one.. it's your thread.

Looking forward to your updates and hopefully an eventual success story!
NOTANYMORE
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Post by NOTANYMORE »

halitosisux wrote:Hey, thanks. I'm doing great ty. It's fantastic to read about this latest development and the fact you've managed to find such a good ENT who is willing to try these things.

If you want to make a thread on this separate subject, I'll sticky it. If not then I'll sticky this one.. it's your thread.

Looking forward to your updates and hopefully an eventual success story!
I would prefer to just keep posting in this thread if you don't mind. I believe it is already stickied as well. It is important for me to be able to archive my attempts in one thread. It is unbelievable how much your assumptions can change over a period of time and just how off course you can get when you are desperate for a cure.
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FedUp
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Post by FedUp »

Hows the PND going?
Tonsillectomy - Check
Sinus CT Scan - All Clear - Check
Dentist Examination - "Gums very good" - Check
Endoscopy - Check - H Pylori Negative
Post nasal space cyst removed - Check
Wisdom Teeth Extraction - Check
Mouth Swab Clear - Check
halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

Yes, please keep posting in this thread. I didn't realise it was already stickied. Yes, the most important thing is to keep an open mind. Not easy to do when you're trying to rule things out.
feelitagain
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Post by feelitagain »

did you have to get a ct scan of your sinus before the surgery?
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