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Is it bad bacteria that causes bad breath? Or a lack of good bacteria?

Everything related with bad breath can be found here. Everything about products, research, news about bad breath......
gotshot26
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Is it bad bacteria that causes bad breath? Or a lack of good bacteria?

Postby gotshot26 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:12 pm

I'm confused here. Some articles say that we are lacking certain good bacteria in the mouth that the rest of the world has. And others say we have bad bacteria that the rest of the world doesn't. Which is right?

Why did so many people get bad breath after taking antibiotics - even one guy I read got it after a big night of drinking. Both which disturb your immune system (basically the bacteria in your system). Is it that bad bugs enter your system while your immune system is compromised, then settling there? Or is it the permanent killing of the good bacteria which was used for cleaning your system?

I guess it makes sense because it seems like there was two people who carried out fecal transplants on this forum - one found success (apparently) and one didn't. When I drink alchohol my bad breath goes away entirely - so perhaps I have bad bugs in my system getting neutralized. But also when I kiss a girl, my bad breath goes away too - which means I must be missing good bugs in my system.

I'm about to order a stool test which will analyse my microbiome and tell me what I have. I plan on doing one for my mouth too, and testing it all. If it appears I'm missing good strains, I'll carry out the fecal transplant I plan on doing. And If i have bad strains - I'll probably fly to Georgia for Phage therapy when I have the cash.

Maybe we could all test our microbiome either through stool test or oral swab and find the common strains between us all. I am going to email Dr. Katz to see how he came up with that list of bad strains that he has.

Hope to get some replies. Thanks.


I believe my bad breath started after multiple rounds of antibiotics between the ages of 2 and 10. Attempting a fecal transplant in 2018 to cure it.


gotshot26
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Re: Is it bad bacteria that causes bad breath? Or a lack of good bacteria?

Postby gotshot26 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:16 pm

I guess lack of good bugs, or having bad bugs splits the type 1 category of bad breath into two separate slots. Which is why some things work for others and not you. For example, bleach rinse or brush does nothing for my BB - yet baking soda does the best job - yet does nothing for others.
I believe my bad breath started after multiple rounds of antibiotics between the ages of 2 and 10. Attempting a fecal transplant in 2018 to cure it.

fog
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Re: Is it bad bacteria that causes bad breath? Or a lack of good bacteria?

Postby fog » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:29 pm

gotshot26 wrote:I'm confused here. Some articles say that we are lacking certain good bacteria in the mouth that the rest of the world has. And others say we have bad bacteria that the rest of the world doesn't. Which is right?


Could be both, two variations like you realized in you reply.
People seem to forget that there are different types of bad breath. So we get all the different treatments mixed in a big mess to decipher.

Do they have Phage therapy specifically for BB problems?

gotshot26
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Re: Is it bad bacteria that causes bad breath? Or a lack of good bacteria?

Postby gotshot26 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:48 pm

fog wrote:
gotshot26 wrote:I'm confused here. Some articles say that we are lacking certain good bacteria in the mouth that the rest of the world has. And others say we have bad bacteria that the rest of the world doesn't. Which is right?


Could be both, two variations like you realized in you reply.
People seem to forget that there are different types of bad breath. So we get all the different treatments mixed in a big mess to decipher.

Do they have Phage therapy specifically for BB problems?


Jimi messaged a center in Georgia - they replied that they had never dealt with a BB person before but were happy to take him if he applied. Unfortunately it costs $2,500 euros to get treatment. And we don't know if it's just one bug causing BB or multiple. I'm guessing they'd figure it out at the clinic but that $2,500 would soon become $10,000 or more if it was multiple bugs.

I'm part of another group on facebook discussing bacteriotherapy for australians - people with all sorts of problems digestive problems including halitosis. One person flew to Georgia for phage therapy and came back permanently cured. Not saying he had BB, but it seems hopeful for us.

We are just one segment of bacterial imbalance community. Millions of others suffering with all kinds of problems. The main consensus is that fecal transplant can only improve, but not eliminate the problem. They've all had their microbiomes tested - they managed to restore the positive strains using multiple transplants. Now they are testing a couple of different methods to eliminate the bad bugs. They are more advanced than us.
I believe my bad breath started after multiple rounds of antibiotics between the ages of 2 and 10. Attempting a fecal transplant in 2018 to cure it.

gotshot26
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Re: Is it bad bacteria that causes bad breath? Or a lack of good bacteria?

Postby gotshot26 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:13 pm

So I did an archive search and found some great threads going ten years back. All similar thinking. Heres a post from one thread that says its both a mix of missing positive strains and having bad strains.

While past research has connected oral malodor to the proliferation of certain bacteria on the tongue, recent research from the Forsyth Institute and the University of Michigan School of Dentistry indicates another group of bacteria is associated with fresh-smelling breath. Investigators used gene sequencing to compare bacteria found on the tongues of individuals with halitosis and those with fresh breath. While not all samples taken from halitosis sufferers had the same bacterial makeup, three particular strains -- Streptococcus salivarius, Rothia mucilaginosa and a previously uncharacterized strain of Eubacterium -- were the most prevalent species on the tongues of subjects with fresh breath. From the American Dental Association:Study identifies 'good' and 'bad' breath bacteria

While past research has connected oral malodor to the proliferation of certain bacteria on the tongue, recent research from the Forsyth Institute and the University of Michigan School of Dentistry indicates another group of bacteria is associated with fresh-smelling breath.

Investigators used gene sequencing to compare bacteria found on the tongues of individuals with halitosis and those with fresh breath. While not all samples taken from halitosis sufferers had the same bacterial makeup, three particular strains Streptococcus salivarius, Rothia mucilaginosa and a previously uncharacterized strain of Eubacterium were the most prevalent species on the tongues of subjects with fresh breath.
The most prevalent bacterium found in the fresh-breathed subjects, Streptococcus salivarius, was found in only one individual with oral malodor and at very low levels, the investigators reported.

The study also identified six species of bacteria most associated with halitosis: Atopobium parvulum; a phylotype of Dialister; Eubacterium sulci; a phylotype of the as yet uncultivated phylum TM7; Solobacterium moorei; and a phylotype of Streptococcus.

In each of six individuals with halitosis, we found several species that were not found in those with fresh breath, said Bruce Paster, Ph.D., Forsyth senior staff member. Conversely, in five individuals with fresh breath, we identified species not generally found in those with halitosis. These findings would suggest that certain bacteria are associated with bad breath, and that others, the normal microflora, protect against it.

The Forsyth study is part of an ongoing effort to determine genetic sequences for all species of bacteria that colonize the oral cavity. In the current molecular analysis of tongue scrapings, scientists have found 92 bacterial species, of which 29 have never before been described in the scientific literature.

viewtopic.php?t=257



- Would it be a lost cause attempting to recolonize the positive strains, while those bad ones were in place? I'm assuming the bad guys would fight off the good guys? Which is explains why taking Blis K12 (Strep. Salivarus) stops working after a while for those who have tried it (my order is on its way).
I believe my bad breath started after multiple rounds of antibiotics between the ages of 2 and 10. Attempting a fecal transplant in 2018 to cure it.


gotshot26
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Re: Is it bad bacteria that causes bad breath? Or a lack of good bacteria?

Postby gotshot26 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:36 pm

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2023

Halitosisux makes some interesting posts in this thread from the archives too.
I believe my bad breath started after multiple rounds of antibiotics between the ages of 2 and 10. Attempting a fecal transplant in 2018 to cure it.

gotshot26
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Re: Is it bad bacteria that causes bad breath? Or a lack of good bacteria?

Postby gotshot26 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:53 pm

Also found this link in the archives. Incredible research article of all types of halitosis. Great read

https://www.nature.com/articles/ijos201239.pdf

Bacteria responsible for VSC production
H2S from cysteine
Peptosteptococcus anaerobius
Micros prevotii
Eubacterium limosum
Bacteroides spp.
Centipedia periodontii
H2S from serum
Prevotella intermedia
Prevotella loescheii
Porphyromonas gingivalis (BANA positive)
Treponema denticola (BANA positive)
Selenomonas artermidis
CH3SH from methionine
Fusobacterium nucleatum
Fusobacterium periodonticum
Eubacterium spp.
Bacteroides spp.
CH3SH from serum
Treponema denticola (BANA positive)
Porphyromonas gingivalis (BANA positive)
Porphyromonas endodontalis
Other Prevotella melaninogenica
Tanerella forsythensis
Eikenella corrodens
Solobacterium moorei
Treponema forsythensis
Centipeda periodontii
Atopobium parvulum
I believe my bad breath started after multiple rounds of antibiotics between the ages of 2 and 10. Attempting a fecal transplant in 2018 to cure it.

Dead
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Re: Is it bad bacteria that causes bad breath? Or a lack of good bacteria?

Postby Dead » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:34 pm

I think that bad breath is caused by bad bacteria. I think there is probably people lacking good bacteria who has no bad breath. But if you have a lot of good bacteria then it's more difficult for bad bacteria to get hold. I also think that if you get rid of whatever condition is causing the abundance of bad bacteria in your mouth, then the good bacteria will start to come back.

gotshot26
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Re: Is it bad bacteria that causes bad breath? Or a lack of good bacteria?

Postby gotshot26 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:24 pm

Blis K12 working wonders for me. BB completely gone. Can't believe this didn't work for so many people - have just spent the last couple hours reading past posts. Not sure how long it will last, but I guess two weeks or so. Will probably just enjoy life for now. Anyway, more reason to go ahead with my fecal transplant and restore the good bacteria.

@Dead
Did K12 work for you? You're the only active member that has gone ahead with the fecal transplant so would be good to know.
I believe my bad breath started after multiple rounds of antibiotics between the ages of 2 and 10. Attempting a fecal transplant in 2018 to cure it.

Dead
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Re: Is it bad bacteria that causes bad breath? Or a lack of good bacteria?

Postby Dead » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:45 pm

gotshot26 wrote:@Dead
Did K12 work for you? You're the only active member that has gone ahead with the fecal transplant so would be good to know.

It didn't work for me. But then again i'm pretty sure i have multiple causes/sources. It's possible it worked for one of them.



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