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Prof. John Tagg from Blis answered some questions

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gotshot26
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Prof. John Tagg from Blis answered some questions

Post by gotshot26 »

I sent a few questions to blis and got a response back from the main man himself. If anyone is interested, read on.

These were my questions:

1. Why not replicate the entire Streptococcus Salivarius species and not just certain strains like K12 and M18.? Or is this incredibly difficult?

2. You said that we can't alter the microbiome but many halitosis sufferers got their bad breath after a round of antibiotics, usually in their teens. I believe the same thing happened to me. I'm assuming they wiped out Streptococcus Salivarius and anaerobic bacteria was allowed to dominate the mouth instead. One halitosis study done in the early 2000s found no trace of Streptococcus Salivarius in halitosis sufferers at all. Please comment.

3. I'm 24 years old and have been suffering from halitosis for as long as I can remember. I was going to attempt a fecal matter transplant to restore my oral microbiome before I discovered K12. There are success stories on the internet of people doing this to cure other bacterial imbalances. Has your team looked into this idea?

Email reply from Blis:

Hi gotshot26,

Prof John Tagg has responded to your questions that you sent last week. Apologies its has taken us a week to come back to you – he is a hard man to pin down.

Please let us know if you have additional questions.

Kind regards
Team Blis

In response to the customer’s comments

1. We have selected the bacteria called K12 and M18 after testing thousands of S. salivarius from many hundreds of people. The reasons for selecting these particular bacteria included (a) they are specially good at producing natural antibacterial activity (called blis) in human saliva (b) their blis activity interferes with the growth of certain other (especially streptococcal) bacteria in the mouth that sometimes can cause infections (sore throats, tooth decay etc) if their growth is not restrained (c) The K12 and M18 bacteria were subjected to intensive evaluation (in the laboratory and in experimental subjects) prior to releasing them for use as probiotics (microbes able to produce a health benefit when used in a specified manner). To use a mixture of large numbers of different S. salivarius would require each individual (pedigree or lineage) of the bacteria to be exhaustively tested (as above) and approved before it could be marketed. Also the composition of mixtures such as that would be very difficult to control.

2. Yes, prolonged use of particular antibiotics (especially those active against streptococci such as penicillin) can alter the balance of microbes on the tongue (and elsewhere) resulting in overgrowth of less penicillin sensitive species (including proteolytic, smelly anaerobes). It can take some time to replenish the population of fermentative (non smelly) streptococci. Regular use of K12 has been shown to be helpful.

3. We have not done studies of the use of faecal populations to aid halitosis control. The microbes of the gut are predominantly adapted to growth in the lower intestinal tract and most would not be expected to establish long term beneficial residence in the oral cavity. On the other hand we are quite interested in assessing in ongoing studies whether our oral cavity probiotic S. salivarius strains, on passing from the mouth into the gut might possibly also confer a health benefit there to the consumer.
Hope these thoughts are of interest

Cheers
John Tagg


For type 1 sufferers, bad breath is mostly caused by overgrowths of sulphur-reducing bacteria within your microbiome. You should spend more time focusing your attention on these overgrowths if you want to find your permanent cure.
fog
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Re: Prof. John Tagg from Blis answered some questions

Post by fog »

Thanks for posting this.

Im thinking it is a numbers game. If I was researching the bacteria I would look for the strains that can outcompete the volatile gas producing bacteria.

I wonder what available sources there are of "fermentative (non smelly) streptococci"...

I remember a youtube video of a guy who fermented milk, he used it as a spray on his farm i belive to not only make bad smells go away(sewer) but also chicken would take up more nurishment if it was put on their food. Is that streptococci or some milk acidophilus or what they are called i do not know. I wonder what would happen if one drank a batch of that stuff.

Havent tried K12 and M18 yet myself, have you gutshot?
gotshot26
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Re: Prof. John Tagg from Blis answered some questions

Post by gotshot26 »

fog wrote:Thanks for posting this.

Im thinking it is a numbers game. If I was researching the bacteria I would look for the strains that can outcompete the volatile gas producing bacteria.

I wonder what available sources there are of "fermentative (non smelly) streptococci"...

I remember a youtube video of a guy who fermented milk, he used it as a spray on his farm i belive to not only make bad smells go away(sewer) but also chicken would take up more nurishment if it was put on their food. Is that streptococci or some milk acidophilus or what they are called i do not know. I wonder what would happen if one drank a batch of that stuff.

Havent tried K12 and M18 yet myself, have you gutshot?
No worries.

I've been using K12 for a month now. It's working incredibly well for me.
For type 1 sufferers, bad breath is mostly caused by overgrowths of sulphur-reducing bacteria within your microbiome. You should spend more time focusing your attention on these overgrowths if you want to find your permanent cure.
gotshot26
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Re: Prof. John Tagg from Blis answered some questions

Post by gotshot26 »

And just to add: I've coupled it with hydrogen peroxide mouthwash (colgate oxycleanse or something like that - $12 a bottle ouch) and this has become my new routine.
For type 1 sufferers, bad breath is mostly caused by overgrowths of sulphur-reducing bacteria within your microbiome. You should spend more time focusing your attention on these overgrowths if you want to find your permanent cure.
gotshot26
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Re: Prof. John Tagg from Blis answered some questions

Post by gotshot26 »

I sent him a follow up question:

Hi,

Can you please say thank you to Prof. John Tagg for that response. It was truly helpful to me and other people who suffer from halitosis. I do have just one follow up question for him, if you could please pass it on:

-If I was to permanently eliminate the overgrown anaerobic species, say, through Phage Therapy - would the new real estate being 'freed up' be taken up by beneficial strains or more anaerobes? Would the suppressed Streptococci once again dominate the tongue, and thus bad breath disappearing permanently?

His response:

Hi

Your question is very interesting - and quite optimistic! I do not feel we yet have enough information about the practical applications of phage therapy for me to have a positive response to that question. Bacteriophage have a very narrow spectrum of antibacterial activity and because of this they are unlikely to be helpful in controlling mixed populations of anaerobes such as are found in the human mouth. I also think it extremely unlikely that any treatment could "permanently" (or even temporarily) eliminate all anaerobic bacteria from our mouth. The best we can hope for is a "balanced" microbiota in which the anaerobes are held in check by our populations of non-smelly bacteria such as the streptococci. In other words I don't think we will ever discover a "panacea" to eliminate bad breath permanently.

Hope that explanation is helpful, if not hopeful !

May the BLIS be with you

John Tagg
For type 1 sufferers, bad breath is mostly caused by overgrowths of sulphur-reducing bacteria within your microbiome. You should spend more time focusing your attention on these overgrowths if you want to find your permanent cure.
sopo
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Re: Prof. John Tagg from Blis answered some questions

Post by sopo »

We are talking about living organisms here. Who knows how they behaive.
sopo
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Re: Prof. John Tagg from Blis answered some questions

Post by sopo »

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 143310.htm

Check this out. Bacterias can think and can make complex decision. Some are much smarter than others it all depends on how many receptors they have.
Hope BB bacteria to be super dumb.
gotshot26
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Re: Prof. John Tagg from Blis answered some questions

Post by gotshot26 »

sopo wrote:https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 143310.htm

Check this out. Bacterias can think and can make complex decision. Some are much smarter than others it all depends on how many receptors they have.
Hope BB bacteria to be super dumb.
Yeah - I don't completely believe what he is saying - but a new perspective is always good. I can only see the two permanent cures now either being:

1. Fecal Matter Transplant
-stool banks popping up all over the world with the highest quality stools - doctors now pushing for at-home FMT as this has become most effective. Poop pills coming to market which are proving just as effective as enema. Two people on this forum have tried it. One found success apparently many years ago and never returned. The other user - @Dead (swedish guy) - tried it with no success - but later claimed to have multiple sources of bad breath.

2. Phage Therapy
-no one on this forum has tried it. I might be in Armenia next year for a wedding so will definitely pop over to Georgia while I'm there and attempt this. I am part of a bacteriotherapy facebook group (just a small australian group). One guy with an overgrowth of some other kind traveled there to get it done and came back permanently cured.
For type 1 sufferers, bad breath is mostly caused by overgrowths of sulphur-reducing bacteria within your microbiome. You should spend more time focusing your attention on these overgrowths if you want to find your permanent cure.
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