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To ap10063 on God

Here you can pray for yourself, for others, to Jesus, Alah, Jahve, Krishna, Buda etc
Phantasist
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To ap10063 on God

Postby Phantasist » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:26 pm

"we must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful god, who creates faulty humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes"

I hate to get into discussions about God, but here is my best answer:

Go does not create faulty humans, and God does not blame us for his own mistakes. In fact, God does not even blame us for OUR mistakes (and we have made plenty!).
I have no doubt that God did His best to provide the best framework (this universe) for human life possible. We are living on a planet that has provided us with all the elements not just to survive, but to thrive. Along with that God gave us intelligence and free will so that we can invent and create anything that our little hearts desire. Are we living in a perfect world? No, because the planet Earth, like everything in this universe, is subject to the forces of nature. There will always be things going wrong, such as natural disasters, disease, accidents, etc. Not because God is making mistakes, but because that is the natural order of things. We have enough brain power to protect ourselves from most things that can go wrong, but certainly not all. There will never be perfection. God did what he could do for us - the rest us up to us. This is the human condition under which we all live, and when things go wrong we feel anguish because we have human emotions. I think most of us in this forum are very much aware of this.


The hand we are dealt is fate. How we play the cards is free will.


ap10063
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Postby ap10063 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:13 am

mm
Last edited by ap10063 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

ap10063
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Postby ap10063 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:38 am

mm
Last edited by ap10063 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:55 am, edited 3 times in total.

Phantasist
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Postby Phantasist » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:04 pm

ap10063,
You came up with some good quotations, and I will tackle them one at a time.

"give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish."

There's a lot of truth in that, but just believing that there is a God, doesn't mean you shouldn't do things for yourself.

"you keep believing. i'll keep evolving."

I have never believed that there is a conflict between faith and evolution. In fact I believe that evolution is part of God's creation.

"the way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.Benjamin Franklin"

Reason is part of our God-given intelligence. It makes sense that God would want us to use it.

"when i was a kid i used to pray every night for a new bicycle. then i realised that the lord doesn't work that way so i stole one and asked him to forgive me. emo phillips"

God is not Santa Claus.

"i would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood. George Carlin"

George Carlin was a comedian and sometimes he could be very funny. The above remark is not one of his best efforts.

"two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

I never pray for things - only to give thanks.

"whatever we cannot easily understand we call god; this saves much wear and tear on the brain tissues."

This is true for many people. It allows us to be lazy and stupid. But Einstein, who was neither lazy nor stupid, did his best to understand the universe, and he felt that the more he understood, the closer he came to God.

"animals do not have gods; they are smarter than that"

Well, I have always said that my parakeet was smarter than a lot of people I know. As different as a little bird is from a human being, the connection was made through intelligence. It showed me that intelligence is universal. There are different degrees of intelligence, but they all lead in the same direction.
The hand we are dealt is fate. How we play the cards is free will.

Phantasist
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Postby Phantasist » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:55 pm

ap10063

"is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? then he is not omnipotent
is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent
is he both able and willing?then whence cometh evil?
is he neither able nor willing? then why call him god? Epicurus"

This is a good one; it deserves a separate post.

On the surface, these assertions seem quite witty and even logical. But upon closer examination, the conclusions are faulty. The basic question here is one of good and evil. BOTH good and evil will always be with us. The reason is intelligence. A couple of simple examples will show you why. If you have the intelligence to build a gasoline engine to drive an automobile, then you also have the intelligence to build a machine gun to kill people with. If you have the intelligence to build a nuclear power plant to light up a city, then you also have the intelligence to build a nuclear bomb to destroy a city. Knowledge cannot be split in half; it can always be used for good and evil. Once God allowed us to have intelligence (and free will) we had the power to do good and evil. They are two sides of the same coin. God placed a trust in us. We have the power to understand that we should strive towards good and stay away from evil. The choice is up to us. If we make the wrong choice, it is not God's fault. We will aways be subject to good and evil. As long as we have intelligence, it cannot be any other way.

All this doesn't mean that you have to believe in God. You have a right to believe in whatever you wish, and you could certainly be a moral person without a belief in God. I have no reason to disrespect you. I am just trying to broaden your outlook into the nature of things and to show you that God has nothing to do with bad breath.
The hand we are dealt is fate. How we play the cards is free will.


ap10063
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Postby ap10063 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:12 am

mm
Last edited by ap10063 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

ihatethebus
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Postby ihatethebus » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:26 pm

nice clean discussion. Thousands of babies are born eryear with ailments e.g no limbs, chronic bb e.t.c and sum1 will come say god is a just/good being/creature or wateva. Personaly id acep god exists if a believer was willing to acep god is a very bad person. Id never let any creature i create sufer for my own stupid pleasure

ap10063
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Postby ap10063 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:41 pm

mm
Last edited by ap10063 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Phantasist
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Postby Phantasist » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:37 pm

ap10063

"phantasist you can takle any of my quotes but they dont make sense to me because you always use god as a defence mechanism for your answers."

I have no need for a defense mechanism. And I have no reason to defend God, which would be useless in any case.

"in fact could you answer any of them without making reference to god?"

My answers were necessarily about God, because your quotations were about God (and religious faith).

"....if god did exist he must not be what we humans know as all good.
stop making excuses for god and see him for what he really is......."

I am not making excuses for God. I simply tried to give you an insight into the true nature of things in this universe, including the planet Earth and the human condition. I did not ask you to believe in God, only in reality. But I see that my explanation is in vain, because you completely misunderstood it.
The hand we are dealt is fate. How we play the cards is free will.

Susie
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Postby Susie » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:05 pm




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