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TMAU POSITIVE

Tell us your story with bad breath
ThinkPositive
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TMAU POSITIVE

Post by ThinkPositive »

Hey. I waited three months to get the results back from Dr Robin Lachman(?). Yea I'm tmau positive. Yay. I felt extremely sad,happy,relieved and angry all at the same time because i finally got a diagnosis but its tmau. I feel like I already knew it was something to do with what I eat, all the bad foods that exacerbate tmau symptoms. For background, I believe the odour started in 2013, peoples comments and reactions in college started and I was excluded from things blah blah. Became very awkward after and completely cut myself from social stuff. The odours are faecal, eggy, rotten eggs and trash and sewage from what I can smell. The odour is nasal and oral. I had tonsillectomy and adenoictemy the day after I found out about the tmau. I went through with it anyways cuz I just wanted them out. The normal values of trymethylamine according to Dr Lachmann are between 2.5-10.8 mine are 19.9 and my tma-n-oxide are 25.5 of possible values of 17.0-147.0). Since my values are elevated its likely it's causing the halitosis. Oh yea the test was through NHS.[/list]


halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

'Congratulations' on your discovery. Hope it leads to you finding eventual release from this curse, rather than you feeling doomed. I'm starting to think that I have some degree of TMAU (or something very similar that perhaps hasn't been discovered yet). Without going into too much detail, I've been on a TMAU diet for the past month and I quite literally could go without even brushing my teeth in the morning, that's how clean my mouth feels. I've had my tonsils removed and had sewage coming from my gums because of impacted wisdom teeth, but I think none of these things would have mattered if I didn't have a build-up of something in my bloodstream that then gets secreted in my saliva and mucus. As far as I know I've never had problems with BO or nasal odours, but maybe I've been so preoccupied with the odour coming from my mouth I've never really thought about odour coming from elsewhere. Maybe for me it just gets excreted through my saliva and mucus.

Have you ever tried any measures against TMAU, such as special diet and activated charcoal?

In the early 90s I wrote to a TMAU researcher, and they told me I can't possibly have TMAU. But back then they were probably only concerned with primary TMAU and people smelling like a fish monger. But many of us might have mild enough secondary TMAU, enough to give us chronic bad breath, rather than "fish odour syndrome". Low concentration of TMA smells like smelly socks/garbage/fecal- not fishy.
ThinkPositive
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Post by ThinkPositive »

Heey I have yet to start my diet, but by eliminating dairy foods alone there was already some difference and also mucus production(I have a thick string of green sometimes yellow in the back of my throat every morning :/). My dietician gave me a guideline of what to eat. The green,amber and red list for foods. I also have to take supplements such as livercare, probiotics and b12. He gave metro to take but since I was gonna take antibiotics for the tonsillectomy I didn't take them. The nasal odour is weird cuz it can smell completely different from oral breath. That's why I thought it was the tonsils. Do you think you'll get tested for tmau?
halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

Very good that you've managed to get some improvement cutting out dairy. All I've done so far is cut out the main things like beef, eggs and fish and for the first time in my life I'm having consistently good days. Eventually I'll try the rest like activated charcoal and B12 etc. I also found that when I tried metronidazole in the past it had a very big effect. Sometimes my "freshness" seems to have a mind of it's own, but for the first time ever I seem to have real consistency and no iffy days at all.

When I feel it's an unmistakable improvement, I'll see a doctor and ask about testing. Please keep us updated on your progress and good luck!
StillHoping
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Post by StillHoping »

"Congrats" ThinkPositive! Not sure this is very congratulatory but hopefully this will make a big difference for you in resolving this problem. I'm currently on a waiting list to get tested!

halitosisux, can you please describe the diet you are presently on? ie. what do you eat for breakfast, lunch, dinner? How many days did it take before you noticed the positive difference? thanks
2012: Wisdoms remov
2015: Tonsils+adenoids remov
2017: TMAU1 & 2 Negative
2019: Internal biopsies normal
2019: Completed SIBO treatment
2020: DigEnzymes help but side effects
+ low fodmap/GERD diet also help
halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

I normally eat lots of the worst things - eggs, meat, dairy, peanuts. But without too much difficulty, I've cut out all of these, and I've been eating LOTS of fruit. I noticed a difference on the first day of trying this. And it's definitely nothing to do with the proteins in my mouth from eating and feeding the bacteria, this feels like it's something going on systemically. My mouth isn't turning stale. I'll write a more detailed diet later on as I don't have time right now.
halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I just want to add that I'm not at the stage yet where I'm being particularly scientific or methodical. I'm simply avoiding the major TMAU avoidance foods, such as fish, eggs, beans and beef, and not eating the things that inhibit the FMO3 enzyme activity, such as certain greens like broccoli.

It's like one of those days where for some inexplicable reason your mouth feels really clean without any effort - but it's happening continuously. Seriously, even if you don't believe TMAU is your problem, just give it a try. It's a very easy diet to stick to and worth bearing in mind that 1 in 100 people have secondary TMAU, i.e. for whatever reason, they have excessive amounts of TMA in their bloodstream which can manifest itself in body odour, breath odour, or just one of these. It gets excreted in saliva and mucus, and is a bacterial by-product which if your tongue gets bathed in, it's going to stink more than a normal tongue would stink.

I can't yet specifically answer your question because no two days are the same for me, and I have no routines, but I'm trying to eat fruits as much as possible and avoiding the known bad things for TMAU.
StillHoping
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Location: Calgary, AB
Canada

Post by StillHoping »

thanks for the update!! I definitely try my best to stay away from those foods you listed, the challenge is sticking to it long term tho
2012: Wisdoms remov
2015: Tonsils+adenoids remov
2017: TMAU1 & 2 Negative
2019: Internal biopsies normal
2019: Completed SIBO treatment
2020: DigEnzymes help but side effects
+ low fodmap/GERD diet also help
halitosisux
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Posts: 3339
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:29 pm

Post by halitosisux »

There's plenty of info on which foods to avoid, and as I said, it's not too difficult - especially if you start to realise it's reducing your odours. I'm finding that simply cutting down on the very high choline content foods (the precursor foods - the ones that your gut bacteria turn into TMA) and the ones that contain TMA already (most strongly smelling fish) and avoiding certain enzyme inhibitor foods (cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, cabbage and Brussels sprouts) it's enough for me. I don't have to cut them out entirely, but maybe I'll try that soon. Your body needs choline, so it's not an option to cut them out entirely, indefinitely.

Good luck if you try it I wish there was a way to test for the presence of TMA in our excretions and secretions, but as searching has pointed out, TMA has a volatility that means it turns into a gas at body temperature, and some amount of TMA is always present, so it would be hard to quantify and know what is normal or abnormal
Heather1223
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Re: TMAU POSITIVE

Post by Heather1223 »

ThinkPositive wrote:Hey. I waited three months to get the results back from Dr Robin Lachman(?). Yea I'm tmau positive. Yay. I felt extremely sad,happy,relieved and angry all at the same time because i finally got a diagnosis but its tmau. I feel like I already knew it was something to do with what I eat, all the bad foods that exacerbate tmau symptoms. For background, I believe the odour started in 2013, peoples comments and reactions in college started and I was excluded from things blah blah. Became very awkward after and completely cut myself from social stuff. The odours are faecal, eggy, rotten eggs and trash and sewage from what I can smell. The odour is nasal and oral. I had tonsillectomy and adenoictemy the day after I found out about the tmau. I went through with it anyways cuz I just wanted them out. The normal values of trymethylamine according to Dr Lachmann are between 2.5-10.8 mine are 19.9 and my tma-n-oxide are 25.5 of possible values of 17.0-147.0). Since my values are elevated its likely it's causing the halitosis. Oh yea the test was through NHS.[/list]

This post honestly makes me want to get tested for tmau. I was thinking that the odor from my mouth and nose is tonsil related because the smell is just horrible and the nose odor differs from my bad breath. But the odors you are describing (rotten eggs, fecal, etc) are all odors i get from my nose. It seems to be present 90% of the time and i seem to get burst of the rotten egg and fecal odors randomly throughout the day, seems to be worse when i am in a closed tight car. I also get a garlicy odor that seems to come from my nose, it makes me misersable
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jess
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Re: TMAU POSITIVE

Post by jess »

ThinkPositive wrote:Hey. I waited three months to get the results back from Dr Robin Lachman(?). Oh yea the test was through NHS.[/list]
Congrats on getting a diagnosis (although it's not a good one). Was the test done in the US or Europe?
ThinkPositive
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Post by ThinkPositive »

The test was done in the UK through GP referral.
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jess
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Post by jess »

ThinkPositive wrote:The test was done in the UK through GP referral.
Ok thank you
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