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My story so far. PND, rhinitis, tonsil stones, temp BB cure with antibiotics

Tell us your story with bad breath
UKJNR
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My story so far. PND, rhinitis, tonsil stones, temp BB cure with antibiotics

Post by UKJNR »

Hi all, this is my 1st ever post here. This forum is amazing! So much information to the point that it's a little overwhelming! I'd like to thank all those involved in making this forum happen as it's clearly very active and a great place to share information which helps many people. I'll now explain my ongoing story with BB and hopefully it will trigger discussion. Apologies if I write a lot, I will try and be as concise as possible and apologies if I'm going over already trodden ground - if so, please just point me in the right direction!

I'm a 30 year old male. I've been experiencing BB i would say from around age 14 when my younger brother started mocking me saying that i have BB etc. It was around this time that I became aware that my tonsils were full of very bad smelling stones I remember using a cotton bud to poke them and clean them out and my god LOADS came out it was disgusting. Since then I've been able to keep them pretty clean to the point where I dont really get the stones anymore but on a daily basis I have to squeeze my tonsils and a thick dark green liquid that has collected in them typically overnight comes out. Flossing my teeth daily also massively helps keeping my breath as clean as possible. If I leave it a few days then when I do floss, the floss smells like horrible tonsil stones.

I have very good dental hygiene and my dentist is totally happy with the health of my mouth and I have no dental issues so I am considering this to not be an issue or a cause of BB in my case.

I have had PND for a good few years now but I'm not sure for how long exactly. I appear to be allergic to something as my sinuses will block up and my nose will run for days. I think that swimming indoors and outdoors in a lake both triggers my PND, and sinuses blocking up with mucus and nose dripping. Although even when I dont go swimming I do appear to go for weeks of having really congested sinuses and PND really bad to the point where I cant breath through my nose then I will go for a few weeks when it is still there but much better and I can go swimming and it doesn't bother my sinuses and I appear to be normal. I also sometimes can smell like a cheesy smell in my nasal cavity and when my nose runs, the discharge from it actually smells cheesy and it is clear in colour I would say. The cheesy smell coming from my nose appears to be very random and will come and go for a few days every 2-3 weeks or so.

In a search for a cure to all of the above, I saw an ENT at my local hospital for the 2nd time a few days ago. They stuck a camera up my nose to confirm that there is lots of inflammation and mucus and that I have PND. They agree my tonsils are very cryptic and huge. They took a blood test to check for allergies and I am not allergic to anything. So far the Dr is saying I have 'intrinsic rhinitis' which as I understand is basically rhinitis that is caused by something unknown. They have sent me for a CT scan of my sinuses to 'see what the drainage system' is like. I haven't set a date for this yet but it should happen soon.The doctor also prescribed me a course of Clarithromycin antibiotics at a dose of 500mg once a day for 6 weeks. They also gave me a load of steroid based sprays to help with the inflammation and to reduce PND. I see the spray as more of a temporary relief to help control the problem. It isn't a cure for the problem nor does it show what the underlying cause is for my problems so I'm not particularly interested in talking about the steroid spray much.

So I have been taking the Clarithromycin for 4 days so far and wow! My bad breath has already completely gone. I wake up with no bad taste in my mouth and my friend has confirmed that my breath smells 'normal' rather than horrendous like it often is. I went lake swimming yesterday and my sinuses did block up and i my nose was running like normal. Today my nose is still slightly blocked but not really any PND and no bad breath. So although the Clarithromycin so far hasn't cured my rhinitis/PND, it has cured my BB. This leads me to a few key questions and points I'd now like to make and to help instigate some proactive discussion with you guys so that I can learn perhaps what is going on in my nose/mouth and to maybe help others to make positive progress with their cases.

1) Does the fact my BB is cured since taking Clarithromycin confirm that the root cause of my BB is in fact bacterial?

2) If the root cause of the BB is bacterial, if i eradicate the problem bacteria from my mouth (which i imagine is the state i am currently in), could I still get rhinitis, PND and tonsil stones but still not have BB?

3) Is it possible to still have tonsil stones but ones that dont smell bad?

4) I am 4 days into a 6 week course of taking 500mg of Clarithromycin daily as prescribed by my doctor. Based on the average experience of someone with similar issues to me, what should I expect to happen once I finish taking Clarithromycin? Will my BB typically come back shortly after or is it possible to expect a life long cure to the problem?

5) Would I benefit from self medicating anything else (probiotics seem very popular) while I am taking Clarithromycin despite my Dr not prescribing me anything else?

I will leave it at that for now as I think/hope I have made all the key points needed to explain my story as concisely as possible without waffling on too much!

Thanks guys! I look forward to hopefully having a good chat with some of you.

All the best,
UKJNR


RamboRadinski
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Re: My story so far. PND, rhinitis, tonsil stones, temp BB cure with antibiotics

Post by RamboRadinski »

Hi UKJNR

Sounds like you are making some good progress with the anti biotic, like my bb yours sounds like it originates from the sinuses, but maybe the anti biotics is working on the sinus bacteria. I would wait and see, if the anti biotic doesnt solve it the ENT will look at the CT scans and decide what the next step to cure the bb is.

On the points you raised, if you are taking an anti biotic over an extended period I would recommend a good probiotic, head to holland and barrett, they have some good tablet form probiotics.

Kind regards
UKJNR
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Re: My story so far. PND, rhinitis, tonsil stones, temp BB cure with antibiotics

Post by UKJNR »

HI RamboRadinski, thanks for the response! I'm now 6 days into taking the anti-biotic and my bb has well and truly cleared up. I'm able to talk right in peoples faces at work and I'm getting zero reaction, it's great! no more morning breath, no tonsil stones or thick green gunk oozing out of my tonsils when i poke them, it's looking very positive so far. The only negative thing I'd say is that I went lake swimming Saturday and pool swimming tonight and in keeping with the trend of the past few years I now have a stuffy and runny nose and PND... so I am still getting the bad reaction to water and I'm not sure why I react like that to the water. Before I went swimming today though my sinuses were very clear and no sign of any PND which is a big improvement compared to what I'm usually like. I'll keep taking the antibiotic and see what happens.

What is the benefit of taking a pro-biotic while I'm on the 6 week course of antibiotics?

Hi Inidluv, the manufacturer of the 500mg Clarithromycin is 'SomexPharma' as written on the packaging.

Thanks guys
pepper234
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Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:51 am

Re: My story so far. PND, rhinitis, tonsil stones, temp BB cure with antibiotics

Post by pepper234 »

Hi there,
I would also recommend the probiotics. I haven't had direct experience with probiotics after taking antibiotics, but I've read a lot of research. Antibiotics gets rid of all bacteria: good or bad. In order to make sure your BB doesn't come back, it will be good to add the good bacteria. For me, probitoics alone made it worse, possibly because the bad bacteria was too much and was just fueled by the good bacteria. But once your system is cleansed, there is a better chance the good bacteria can colonise it. Please do update us! Would love to hear your story progress. I also have sinus issues, so I might go to an ENT after reading this. I used to go as a kid but they couldn't ever find what was wrong with my nose :/

So I want to ask: what does your BB smell like? Have you smelled it before? Or is it cheesy all the time? Mine smells more fecal :/ So I'm not sure if we have the same root cause.
UKJNR
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Re: My story so far. PND, rhinitis, tonsil stones, temp BB cure with antibiotics

Post by UKJNR »

Hi Pepper234,

It's now been two months since I've stopped taking the antibiotics and my the bad breath originating from my sinus bacterial infection has still completely gone! The smell used to be a mix of cheesy and fecal at times I'd say but more on the cheesy side perhaps...either way it was terrible! I would like to point out that I took no probiotics while I took the antibiotics... I went back to the ENT on Thursday to discuss my progress and to discuss the results of a CT scan I had on my sinuses. The Dr told me that the structure of my sinuses are completely normal which is great news. He suspects that I got a bacterial infection after having inflammation in my sinuses that caused congestion and the right breeding ground for a bacterial infection to set in, causing the bad breath. The antibiotics have cleared up the bacterial infection and now my sinuses are really clear and I can breath so much better through them. I no longer have bad smells coming from my sinuses or my nose. I still seem to get a reaction post swimming (although no where near as bad as before I started taking antibiotics) that causes congestion and PND for a day or so but I found that wearing a nose clip prevents that. I suspect that my sinuses just dont like being filled with water and when they do it causes inflamation and then the PND and congestion. As my Dr said, this could then cause the right environment for a bacterial infection to take place. On this basis he has advised me to use one spray of 'nasonex' steroid spray just to keep my sinus inflammation under control. He did say however that he suspect I should never get a repeat bacterial infection and that it was most likely just a one off as the structure and drainage of my sinuses are completely normal. He did say that people born with slightly misformed or restricted sinus cavities are more prone to bacterial infections due to a higher risk of sinus congestion and drainage issues etc...which makes sense really. He did say that there are surgery options for those who have issues with the structure of their sinuses that may cause blockages and drainage issues.

Although my sinus bacterial infection has cleared up, I still get tonsil stones. My ENT explained that tonsil stones and a sinus bacterial infection are two completely independent issues and both of them were causing bad breath which is why mine was so bad. The BB has been removed from the sinus infection issue but I am still getting tonsil stones. He told me that other than cleaning them every day, the only cure would be to have them removed. My tonsils are very cryptic and trap everything in them so it's no wonder that they produce horrific smelling stones really. I need to floss regularly too as I find that the tonsil stone smell fills in between my back teeth otherwise. I can literally taste the tonsil stone tastes in between my teeth when i 'pull' saliva through my back teeth. Running floss between my back teeth and smelling it then confirms that it literally smells like tonsil stones. I suspect that the tonsil stone smell is getting in between my teeth particularly while I sleep and bad smelling saliva/fluid that was in my tonsils is draining out of my tonsils and making its way in between my teeth where it's collecting. I don't think I will have my tonsils removed as I find that I can keep my tonsils quite clean through daily cleaning and flossing, therefore keeping this source of my BB under control.

Overall I am so much more happy and confident. I can taste how clean my mouth is. No more bad tastes and smells coming from my sinuses or nose. I can talk to people close up to their faces. Morning breath is very minimal and as soon as i have some water, then it's completely gone. Much like the majority of 'normal' people who have never suffered from BB and who I was always envious of! It really is a life changing feeling. And now that I know why my BB was there and what caused it, I'm no longer afraid of it. If I was to get another sinus bacterial infection I'll know how to get it treated, but two months down the line I'm still infection free and my sinuses are amazingly clear and free of inflammation.

I would urge anyone who is suffering from BB to go and seek medical help. It was a long process going through the NHS to get treated here in the UK. I had to see my GP over 5 months to show that taking antihistamines and steroids didn't cure the sinus infection, PND and bad breath. it then took my third visit to the ENT specialist in the hospital before they finally gave me a 6 week course of steroids and antibiotics. I'd recommend taking the steroids along side the antibiotics as the steroids reduces the sinus inflammation and PND which means that the antibiotics will have an easier time killing off the bacteria which will more easily drain away as such rather than being trapped in pockets in the sinuses. I wish I had seeked help from an ENT earlier. I am 30 years old and I've had this issue for a good few years. Yes it is a little hard going to a GP and outright telling them that you have BB and sinus issues but they are there to help and they wont judge. They see this day in and day out...It's much better to go see a GP and to have the courage to tell them your problems so that they can help cure you rather than you stay at home and suffer...

I'm also no longer 'afraid' of my BB caused by tonsil stones...I 100% understand why the BB forms and where it comes from and I know that I can cure the problem by having my tonsils removed...like I said earlier though, for now I am happy managing the problem by cleaning them myself. I almost see it as an extension of my daily showering regime in order to keep myself smelling fresh and clean...

Please dont suffer alone and think that you must be a freak or that there is no solution to your BB. i used to feel like life wasn't worth living because I had BB but now I feel on top of the world and unstoppable. Everyone's BB is caused by a finite amount of possible scenarios. It's not rocket science and it's actually simple to treat ONCE you know the root cause. With all of the shared stories on this website, you could probably quite quickly make good progress in diagnosing yourself...get yourself to an ENT, get on a course of antibiotics and ideally with steroids at the same time and blast away that bacteria that causes BB. Get a scan on your sinuses performed to see if there are any abnormalities in their structure. If so, have surgery to correct the issue. If you have tonsil stones, either find a cleaning regime that works to keep them clean or just get them removed...

I hope that this helps at least one person out and helps to give someone hope. I now consider myself a success story and for years I was one of those people thinking that I'm doomed for life and that life wasn't worth living...possibly much like you right now as you read this...the truth is though that we're no different and that there is help and solutions out there. you too can become a success story, so go see an ENT!

Please ask me any questions if you guys have them. Let's help each other out and let others know that there really is hope after all :).

oh and sorry for the essay haha...
pepper234
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Re: My story so far. PND, rhinitis, tonsil stones, temp BB cure with antibiotics

Post by pepper234 »

Hi UKJR,

Thanks for sharing your experience! I do have sinus issues but I am not sure if your cure will work for me. See, I don't have PND or tonsil issues. My tonsils feel very smooth and clean, as is my general mouth area despite the bad taste. My dentists always say everything looks good :) My question is, how long did you have sinus issues for? And how did you know you have PND (aside from what the healthcare professionals tell you)? Because everyone says PND is marked by symptoms such as having to clear your throat often, coughing a lot with lots of phlegm. I don't have any of these things except when I fall ill, but I wonder if it is still possible I have PND. My only symptom in the ear/ nose/ throat region is having an almost constantly blocked nose, but I think it's because of the way my nostrils are hmm. Nasal irrigation does nothing for me: nothing gross comes out, only temp relief from sinus and no detectable change in breath.

I would very much like to start on antibiotics, but I'm very wary given that it is the cause of BB, and many people have reported that it came back after. SO hearing a success story like yours is really refreshing.

Congratulations on your freedom! We are insanely happy for you here, I'm sure. You probably can probably drop "temporary" from your title now, if not soon!
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