I think I know when it started

[tonsolloliths]

Hi everyone,
Here is my story as brief as possible.
Prequel: I remember in the 5th grade (1972) my father was driving me to my dance lesson and we were sharing an apple. After taking the first bite he handed it to me, I went to take a bite and it smelled "funny". This is the first time I remember the bad breath smell. I did share that apple, probably shouldn't have as I think this may have been the initial exposure. (Some months back I saw a news story about how adults should never share food/drink with even their own children as this could pass on harmful bacteria.)

I married at 18, my husband never mentioned bad breath. We had a daughter and the marriage failed and I was left as a single mom at 20 years old. I don't remember having bad breath until I was in my mid 20's when I noticed people would back away when I would speak. I never smelled my own breath as being bad until this time; occasionally, when laughing really boisterously I would smell that same smell that I experienced when sharing the apple with my father years before.

Needless to say I was mortified, brushed several times a day but didn't seem to help; thought I would have bb forever. A few years later I saw the ProFresh news story (at this time you had to see him in his office in Philly, so I didn't go, but kept it in mind for future reference). When it became available by mail order that's when I decided to order. It really worked! It totally got rid of my bad breath with the first use(I used my daughter as my guage as she was the only one honest with me about my breath).

Well that seems to be the end, right? WRONG!! I used this for several years with great success but then I got lax with my dental hygeine (I think depression caused me to become lax). I used ProFresh still but only at night, and I think this is when my bb came back. Coming out of the depression I began using PF correctly again but it didn't seem to work like before.

Now I am at a crossroads and have been doing a lot of looking on the internet. I found out about tonsilloliths and was mortified and excited at the same time; I had never known such things existed. I followed instructions for removal and sure enough I had some! They had that same familiar smell from that bad apple. So now I have decided to see an ENT doc this week so he can get rid of any others and maybe even do the laser treatment that seals off the crypts.

Wish me luck as I am a teacher and have thought about quittiing bc of the bad treatment from colleagues and inability to help students the way I need to.

Tonsilloliths

[tonsolloliths]

I made an appointment with an ENT today. They cannot fit me in until the 18th of Aug., which will be a week after school starts.

For the first time I am being totally open and honest about my bb. When the receptionist asked me what the reason was for the appt., I came right out and said that I have extremely bad breath, tonsilloliths, and post nasal drip. She didn't bat an eye, nor did anyone in the waiting room. I WANT ANSWERS AND TREATMENT and I'm going to get it! I walked out with my head held high and my dignity in tact.

I'm so thankful that I have my daughter as my confidente; she will go with me to the ENT as a breath witness so he cannot tell me there is nothing wrong (as this is what I've read in some of your posts).

I'm so saddened and angry by some of the posts I've read I think we need to get more proactive with the medical community.

I'm also planning on calling ProFresh and asking them their opinion on why they think their product doesn't work for me anymore, and I will keep getting referred all the way to Richter until I get a satisfactory answer.

I'll keep you posted.

G

[halitosisux]

hello
Have you ruled out dental causes?
Im just asking because you mentioned some hygiene issues in the past and i discovered a dental cause was behind my BB.

[tonsolloliths]

I had poor dental hygiene as a child (my parents never instilled dental hygiene ) and as a result had a lot of cavities. At 12 years old, one of my molars became abscessed (sp?) and I had to spend 3 days in the hospital to have it drained and infection cleared. After that time I saw a dentist regularly and had many fillings, still no bb until my mid 20's. Fast forward to adulthood; I see my dentist regurlarly and am having amalgum fillings replaced gradually. I have root canals with crowns and they are checked and x-rayed at dental cleanings. According to my dentist, my gums are healthy and there is no sign of disease.

On a side note: As a result of my childhood experience, I have made sure to instill good dental habits in my daughter from toddlerhood (brushing, flossing, dental cleanings every 6 months; she has never had to be drilled by a dentist and aside from having to wear braces for straightening, there has never been an issue with her mouth and she is now 28.

G

[halitosisux]

I also had poor dental hygiene in my childhood, because i also wasnt taught about such things. This always gave me a false impression during my years trying to solve my BB (which eventually turned out to be due to a dental cause) that i was probably born with this problem, but it turns out i wasnt thankfully. During my childhood I can clearly remember my dentist saying i needed to have some teeth out to make room and avoid problems later in life, but my dad never trusted this because the system here in the UK encouraged unnecessary treatment, particularly fillings and extractions - but if only he had listened because my dentist was absolutely correct about it.
You have a lot of faith in your dentist's judgement to have had so much done in your mouth and to feel confident enough to rule out dental causes. I know people resent and feel insulted whenever this is mentioned because most people with this problem have scrupulous oral hygiene and management way beyond normal levels, but i'll say it again and again how inherently prone the teeth and gums can be for causing BB and no matter how resolutely you may feel you can rule them out, to be absolutely 100% CERTAIN before even thinking about any other causes.

EDIT: btw faulty crowns and root canals are notorious for causing BB, they also only have a limited lifespan before they need re-doing. Ive seen many cases where they have turned out to be responsible for causing the worst stenches.

[tonsolloliths]

Hi Halitosisux,

Thank you for your response.

I wonder how many of us on this site have had poor dental hygiene as children? As children, we are innocent and at the mercy of our parents to know what is right for us (Nowadays they teach oral hygiene in school, this was not in practice when I was school-aged). I do not resent my parents' ways, they did not think it important to take care of their teeth; my mother had full upper and lower dentures by the time she was 35 [she had no bb that I remember, she may have had it before she got the dentures but I was very young (5) and do not remember], and my father's teeth rotted out of his mouth by 60 (extreme bb).

I have been meticulously taking care of my teeth for quite some time now, but unfortunately I started too late. I know they are fine for now but I continually get the root canals/crowns and fillings checked when I go for my 6 mo. cleanings. There is no stench on my floss.

I have pulled out some tonsilloliths which have the stench of bb, that is why I think this is part of my problem, I also have post nasal drip which has plagued me since I cannot remember when. I hesitate to dry this up with meds like Sudafed and Zyrtec because they will also dry the saliva and cause dry mouth, which is not good for bb.

Tomorrow I am calling Profresh to possibly get some answers; we'll see.

G.

[halitosisux]

My mother had BB since i could remember, until approx 4 years ago when she finally had all her teeth removed and dentures fitted, despite having always suffered with PND. Strangely though, my dad is gradually losing his teeth one by one, but has never suffered with BB - I think some of us are simply more susceptible in this way, probably because of individual microbial compostitions and body chemistry.

I can remember at school when so many of my friends also neglected their oral hygiene, and most people tended to have BB it was almost like normality. I remember when we used to have compulsory dental checks and hearing the dentist telling one friend that the inside face of his teeth were going GREEN. Ever since i heard those words it made me start thinking that maybe i should start taking better care. Yet being taunted over my BB by my brother and sister never made me think about taking better care, because it just felt so futile, deep inside i just felt like it must be more deeply connected - i can remember my dad always giving us crazy things like milk of magnesia and laxitives and moaning about our guts making us smell.

I had my tonsils out approx 12 years ago, i had tonsil stones, i can remember coughing those things up as a kid and not really thinking anything of it, that it was normal. But tonsillectomy made absolutely no difference whatsoever to anything apart from stopping these stones from appearing. I think tonsils stones are a symptom and a sign of excessive bacterial activity (ie excessive VSCs and other chemicals produced nearby) and forming these calcified potent smelling clumps.

[tonsolloliths]

So sad to hear about your ordeal as a child. From my research, there seems to be other pockets in the throat and way back of tongue where tonsil stones can form besides the crypts of tonsils. Also removal of tonsils sometimes leaves bigger gaps where the stones can form. My tonsils are relatively small compared to some I've seen on the inet. I'd just like to seal off the crypts with cryptolysis so no more PND and food particles can get lodged in there.

I have never coughed up a tonsil stone. The ones I removed about a week ago were large (about half a centimeter in diameter). I wonder how long it takes for a stone to get that big? The stench was beyond belief; no wonder people are backing away, I would too. I'm continually trying to remove more with the waterpik on lowest setting, but so far nothing. The first time I tried removing with the waterpik I got a the horrible stench of one on the end of the pik but no stone. There is a guy with a huge and I mean HUGE (about 1-1/2 cm diameter) stone on youtube; search tonsil stones on the site to see it.

On an unhappy side note: I saw this site called badbreathogram where people send a "happy" note to someone who has bb; it's apparently a "nice" way to let someone know that they have bb. HELLO! We already know, and are trying our best not to offend. People can be so rude, ignorant and obnoxious.

G

[tonsolloliths]

Well, I called ProFresh yesterday and they could not give me a reason why it's not working anymore, so I asked if there was another person I could talk to about it and she gave me the corporate office number. When I called them they still had 10 minutes to close but were not there! So, I left a message and to my shock and surprize they called me back this morning!

The person who called me said he could not think of why it was not working for me anymore either. He did say there may have developed some other condition for my cause of bb, as PF only treats halitosis. Is the bb smell coming from your nose? No. Have other people told you you have bb? Yes, my daughter. He never asked if I had tonsil stones, maybe this is one of the other conditions he is talking about. I did not want to tell him about the ts and give him that to work with. If he's such an expert he would have asked.

He is sending me, free of charge, 2 bottles with double activator packs and suggested I use it 3 times a day instead of 2 and have reliable people (I only have my daughter) check for me. I think this is the least PF can do for me as I've been using (and paying for) it since 1997! (He had my order history right there in front of him and I know from working in an order call center in the past that there is a total amount of $$ listed that you've spent with a company right there on the order screen.) He also said that if it does not work to call back and they would continue to work with me. I should receive by Tue. or Wed. of next week. I'll keep you posted.

G

[tonsolloliths]

Hello Everyone,
Well, I just got back from spending a few days with my daughter, and she confirmed quite often through our visit that I did not have bb. I am so excited and thrilled and I want to thank this site for helping me. Let me explain; through reading this site for the past couple of weeks and researching on the net, I have begun a few changes that seemed sound to me. My routine is:

1. Start each day with a neti pot flush (for PND) [am only]
2. Brushing entire inside of mouth including: inside and outside of teeth, tongue, floor, roof and cheeks with Colgate Total (the triclosan in it kills germs) [am and pm]
3. Scraping entire tongue 10-12 times with a tongue scraper, as far back as the bumps on the back of the tongue (to remove bacteria that may collect in the tongue) [am and pm]. Notice how I wrote "in the tongue". If you look at a microscopic view of the tongue it really has deep valleys for bacteria to hide and thrive.
4. Waterpik with 10% Hydrogen Peroxide aroung all teeth and back of throat at tonsil area (disinfectant) [am and pm(without hydrogen peroxide)]

Numbers 2 and 4 are thanks to username searching

The morning routine takes 20 minutes for me, the evening one about 10 or 12.

I honestly believe that this would not help a smidge if I had not removed those tonsil stones.

I have an appt. with my dentist tomorrow under the ruse of a sore tooth due to a recent cleaning, I'm hoping he will check to see if there are any more stones, but I do not think there are, now that my daughter has confirmed the absence of bb.

I am still keeping the ENT appt. to see about options for PND treatment and future possible stones treatment.

I just received my complimentary bottles of ProFresh, but do not want to use them as what seems to be working now costs a hell of a lot less than it does.

I hope this info helps anyone here who is suffering with PND and/or tonsil stones. I will keep you posted.

G

[tonsolloliths]

Hello Everyone,

Yesterday the dentist did not see any tonsilloliths, but last night when using the water pick I pulled out two on the right side; they were extremely small, not quite formed into stones yet, easily mashed between fingers, but had a faint rotting flesh/septic smell.

G

p.s. I found this informative forum on the net regarding tonsil stones and different ways that people have been successful in removing them. Also how tonsils can "grow" back years after having them removed:

http://www.steadyhealth.com/Tonsil_Ston ... sc-40.html