TMAU

[caramiamine98]

Hi Halitosisux,

The reason I didn't reply sooner was because I was too busy gargling with live mice and eating cyanide. Wait! Isn't that supposed to be the other way around? Why can't I ever remember all my "crazy" treatments? Sorry, couldn't resist.

I understand what you are saying. I just don't happen to agree with it. Mpdela ( the aforementioned lady with the blog) says her son has tmau. He hadn't been tested either. Do I believe what she says? Yes. Do I think her claims are staggering? No. Do I think her claims are misleading and/or crazy?. Absolutely not and nor would anyone who had taken the time to read about it either. I don't see how I have done anything wrong. I believe 100% that this is my issue. If I am ever proved to be wrong on this you will be the first to know. I promise! I should warn you that I've never ever been proven wrong on anything even once in my life. Ever.

So you fibbed about appreciating my informative posts? Sniff. Hangs head. *cries*

I hope you noticed that I freely admitted to not having been tested yet ( there is that pesky word again!). I wasn't coerced into admitting this nor was I backed into a corner or even caught in a lie about it. I have nothing to hide. When I came on this board I fully expected to be asked questions. I just didn't expect the third degree. If you had a problem with one or any of my posts, fair enough, but you could have at least been nice about it. Just because you have posted 625 times does not earn you the right to be rude. I hope you've also noticed that I have answered all of your questions and then some. I've been honest about everything.

What is it exactly that you think I just made up? Could you be more specific?

This discussion has been a blast but now I must be off to gargle with some aftershave. ( my latest "crazy" treatment!). Yours ever. Hugs and kisses. C.

[vilenin89]

hey I was wondering if you could do me a favor and give me like what your sample diet for a day is... and more information about the regime you use to deal with your odor.

Im testing for TMAU, will get results soon, but I and my physican strongly suspect it.

I know its a lot to ask, but you obviously know the position I am in all too well!


Also can you say how severe your symptoms were before the diet.

Thanks!

[me]

Vilenin89 what does your breath smells like? is't the poop breath? Do you get the: did anyone farted in here?? or is your breath a different kind of room covering smell??

I had this teacher who had this very BB, he could also cover the room with his breath stench. How ever his didn't smell like poop, his BB was more like garlic/metallic type.

The reason why I say this is because I think that different type of smell indicates different source of the problem.Who knows maybe for some people it is TMAU or maybe not. At this point I don't know, and TMAU does sound resonable. How ever my breath smells so much like my poop, that it is hard to belive for me that the poop is not the cause it self.

[caramiamine98]

Hi Vilenin89,

I wrote out a sample diet for you but then realized it was only suitable for a vegan like myself. If you are not a vegan let me know so I can adjust the diet accordingly. I'm only vegan by choice so it's definitely not a necessity. Looking forward to hearing from you. Cheers.

[halitosisux]

My god why did I even mention it.

THANK ***k IM FREE I DONT HAVE TO TAKE ANY MORE SHIT FROM PEOPLE LIKE THAT IN THIS ****ing WORLD

[caramiamine98]

Wait! Does this mean the wedding is off? Nooooooooooooooooooo! *Faints* from a tragic combination of deep and utter shock and gut wrenching sorrow.

[halitosisux]

Anyone who gives a shit knows what's been said and what my argument was about. You can twist and detract all you like, all I said is that I think its wrong/dangerous/potentially misleading to assume or self-diagnose anything on here, especially something as important as TMAU on a halitosis forum.

I never said giving the advice and sharing your experiences was wrong, all I tried to do is emphasise the importance of being clear that your TMAU is and always will be an assumption until you have it tested. But because you are a narcissist you are incapable of accepting any scrutiny or criticism, and you've clearly proved this.

[vilenin89]

Im not a vegan, but I would love to see any diet. Thanks.

[caramiamine98]

Dearest Halitosisux,

I believe that each of us has made our views ABSOLUTELY clear on this. WE DISAGREE. This discussion could go on literally forever ( it certainly feels like it has!). We've both made our points known and now must accept the fact that there is no consensus. I think we must simply agree to disagree at this point. Whilst all this bickering has been great fun it's become rather tiresome. Hopefully, we can put all this behind us and move forward. Deal? More importantly for the honeymoon I was thinking Barbados. I hear it's nice ..... xoxo C (the narcissist)

[halitosisux]

Dearest caramiamine(98),
Thank god for that. I couldnt agree more and I'm sorry for having taken it this far and speaking so harshly at times but I was making my point which unfortunately conflicts with how you feel about this (though I so wish I hadnt) and I totally TOTALLY appreciate that TMAU (or something VERY similar) is not only happening for you, but for a LOT of others on here too. And for good reason in your case with the symptoms you have and the amount of REASON for you to believe in what you do.

TMAU (or some similar enzyme disorder) makes a lot of sense for so many reasons.
It explains why probiotics make the difference they do, even if only temporarily. It explains why certain CHANGES in diets (apart from low choline diets obviously) such as low carb diets, many of which have been described on this site, have an effect. It explains why antibiotics, paticularly metronidazole which has been mentioned so many times on here too, can make a difference for some if TMAU is behind everything and depending on type and severity.

Could go on and on here about this. Many have mentioned the futility in being tested for something which is incurable (at present) but surely its better the devil you know, because as many have discovered, there are so many different ways to reduce the severity, and in some cases even completely eliminate the symptoms, as you also say you have, but it still doesnt mean you have TMAU!, not until it has been properly diagnosed.

[caramiamine98]

Hi Vilenin89,

I would suggest trying to eliminate high choline foods (see list below) first to see if it makes any difference before trying a low choline diet. It might be all that's necessary. Cutting out egg yolks, beans and soy is what helped me the most.

High Choline Foods

Egg yolks (eggs whites are fine)
Organ meats (liver, kidney, heart, etc)
Veal
Mutton
Seafood (although freshwater fish is supposed to be okay)
Beans (kidney, white, navy, etc)
Soy products (soybeans, soy flour, etc)
Cruciferous vegetables (brussel sprouts, broccoli, cabbage and cauliflower)
Lecithin and lecithin containing products
Fish oils

I've included a sample diet. As you can see it's quite liberal. Choline is still a necessary part of a healthy diet and it’s important not to become deficient as it could lead to health problems. The RDA for men 14 yrs and older is 550 mg and for women 19 yrs of age and older is 425 mg. Have your doctor and/or dietician double check it to see if I've missed anything.

Breakfast

Oatmeal (all cereals are fine except wheat germ)
Apple or orange juice (all others are fine as well)
2 slices whole wheat toast or toasted bagel
Coffee or tea (fine except for decaffeinated instant coffee for some reason)


Snack

Fruit (any kind)
Carrot sticks (my fave!)
small handful of almonds or walnuts (okay in moderation)
yogurt

Lunch

Vegetable soup (except those with cruciferous veggies)
Salad (same as above)
Turkey sandwich on whole wheat bread
Salad dressing (most are fine)

Snack

Fruit
Cut veggies
yogurt
Rice cakes

Supper

Steamed Vegetables (again, no cruciferous veg)
Brown rice
Grilled chicken with seasoning (herbs and spices are all fine)
Salad with dressing
Fruit

I didn't include weights or the actual choline count in mgs. This is more to give you a general idea. I hope you find this helpful.

As for my symptoms, I never had any BO just extremely strong BB. People standing or sitting as far away as 8 ft could smell it. My only other symptom was a strange taste in my mouth. The smell was not constant either it was more hit or miss like sometimes I had BB and sometimes I didn't. After I changed my diet and added some extra supplements all the comments and/or complaints stopped. The weird taste also went away.

Supplements

Copper chlorophyllin 300mgs twice a day
Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) 100mgs twice a day
Activated charcoal 520mgs twice a day (taken at different times than other supplements)
Probiotics once a day

I take other vitamins and minerals which are supposed to help with odours like vitamin C, B6, D3, biotin and cal-mag with zinc as well.

I can't think of anything else to add right now but if I do I'll let you know. Right now I'm off to eat as all this talk of food has made my very hungry! Cheers.

[wnaysha]

hi caramiamine98,

First of all i wanted you to know that you are not the only one having problems with halitosisux, I used to have problem with the way he was asking me questions, but to tell you the truth, even though he was always against me in the past, arguments with him always made me do more research and find new information about bb. so please don't take it personal, and instead try to take it as something positive.


just like always I have found something new from your argument with him, I Really think all of us might have the secondary kind of TMAU or something very similar to it. and here's why;

you said you had Candida right? Although I have not tested for candida yet, but I might have it. a few days ago I posted something about how not being able to break down glucose can lead to bb, and candida is involved;




The reason why we can't drink milk is because of its lactose, we are lactose intolerant,

Lactose (also referred to as milk sugar) is a sugar that is found most notably in milk.

This is what I found in my chemistry book:

C6H12O6 (glucose) (helped by yeast) 2CH3CH2OH (ethanol) + 2CO2

Ethanol is an alcohol usually found in alcoholic drinks

CH3CH2OH(ethanol) (after Oxidation) CH3CHO (an aldehyde)

Aldehyde "Low molecular weight aldehydes, e.g., formaldehyde and acetaldehyde (CH3CHO), have sharp, unpleasant odors."

In our case instead of trimethylanime in trimethylaminurea (tmau) we might have triethyamine, (ethyl coming from glucose) which has almost the same properties of trimethyamine.

Triethylamine "It possesses a strong fishy odor reminiscent of ammonia."

NOW, I'm not saying that the smell has to be fishy odor, just like you said it can be fecal, like in many other TMAU sufferers.


The REASON why i think i have this TEAU, or TMAU is because my mom and i were both haveing bone problems, my bones were getting very weak and painful, so my mom made an appointment with a doctor and was finally diagnosed with Arthritis. Since my mom has Diabetes(her body can't use sugar properly), her doctor prescribed Glucosamine.

Which means that her body can not break trimethylamine properly, and so her bones are not getting enough of Glucosamine. Whatever the reason, it looks like in both TMAU, and Lactose intolerance there is an enzyme deficiency.

[OneStep]

hi guys im new here and ive been suffering BB for like almost a yr now. I think I've had this ever since (which made me think that maybe i have TMAU) but my BB got worse for almost a year or so. I've resigned from my job because I couldnt deal with my co-workers anymore. Now, I have a new job and I'm thinking of resigning again...just *****!!!

anyway, about TMAU.. is this a gradual onset? I don't think I have fishy body odor though but my urine does smell like it but im not sexually active so im sure it's not STD. and i think i have poop breath too and there are days that it's really worse but my "normal days" is less BB but i know i still have it.

if i wanna get myself checked, i should go to an endocrinologist right?

i sooo wanna live a normal life

[caramiamine98]

Hi Wnaysha,

Don't worry, I never took any of the argument personally. After all, it is the internet and people are free to say whatever they like. To be honest, I found the whole thing very amusing. It was my first online skirmish! I shall always look upon it with the very fondest of memories....

The info you provided makes sense. I knew that candida was a possible cause of BB but didn't know that lactose intolerance was one too until I came on this forum. I am lactose intolerant as well and so is my entire family. Curiously, none of them has ever had BB. I haven't bothered with milk in years so I never equated it with my problem. As for the candida, I believe mine is aggravated by my metal fillings. I've read numerous times that there is a link between the two. I have a few more fillings to remove first and then will put more effort into dealing with it. I'd also like to be retested after they are out to see if it helped at all and where to go from there.

In the general population tmau1 and tmau2 ( or something like it) is extremely rare but on forums like this it only makes sense that there is going to be a much higher than average percentage. Another piece of the puzzle.

Thanks for posting this and I wish you the best of luck with everything. Cheers. C

[me]

Hey "vilenin89" are your TMAU results in yet??? please answerrrr!!! is very important for the rest of us!!!