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Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth = Shit breath?

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Larc400
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Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth = Shit breath?

Postby Larc400 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:57 am

Bacterial overgrowth is when the small intestine is full of bacteria which shouldn't be there.

Some of them are bacteria which normally only exist in the colon, and produce fart gas.

If these bacteria is higher up in the system (=the small intestine), I guess it must be possible for the gas they produce to travel upwards via the stomach and esophagus (or via the blood to lungs) and give us a shitty breath and comments like 'who farted?'

http://www.medicinenet.com/small_intest ... rticle.htm

Was anyone tested for this?

:-({|=
Last edited by Larc400 on Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.




vilenin89
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Postby vilenin89 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:12 am

I guess possible, but not likely 95+ percent of people even on his forum have their problem solely in the oral cavity. The "shit" bacteria are on the back of your tongue and your tonsils too!

Larc400
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Postby Larc400 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:42 am

I'm sure you can tell from my status & number of posts that I'm aware of this, but I'm talking about the few % who may have other causes 8-[

halitosisux
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Postby halitosisux » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:42 am

Without insulting any of the BB Gods on here, I would just like to make a few points on what is such a fundamental question for anyone who feels perplexed and at a loss as to the cause of their BB.

Firstly, shit odour is shit odour and it could be produced anywhere inside the body where bacteria reside (such as the intestines) and then migrate to other areas (via blood) and come out through skin/lungs/saliva/mucus) infesting even those areas that are teeming with the same kinds of bacteria (like the tongue) mimicking the type of halitosis normally associated with sinus or dental problems.

This is basically what happens in secondary TMAU, either through deficient or defective enzymes AND/OR unfavourable intestinal flora populations.

When you think about it, people who dont normally have halitosis will reek of garlic within just a few hours after eating it. This is distinctly different to the lingering odour left behind in the mouth immediately after chewing it. The time it takes for this release of odour coincides with its passing into the small intestine. So, why does this same person NOT smell of the shit which their intestines are also constantly having to process?
Because every stage of the intestine varies in its absorbtion characteristics and its bacterial flora composition. Food normally only smells of ITSELF (and whatever enzymatic changes have been made to it so far in the digestive process) until it arrives at the large intestine where it sits there and is fermented by the specific bacteria that lives there, until its ready to get "dumped" out of the body.

My point being that if the contents of the small intestine were to ever become "foul" (as normally only happens inside the large intestine) then the result is VERY likely to be intermittent SHIT BREATH.
IF anyone believes this to be the case for them then I advise that you read and learn everything about secondary TMAU because any developments in this, such as the control of intestinal bacteria though diet, antibiotics and probiotics, are likely to help you too.

Larc400
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Postby Larc400 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:54 am

Yeah, we wrote the same thing with different lingo :)

Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) is just what you described: more bacteria than normal in the small intestine, and an extended flora, sometimes similar to the colon flora. Some of the gas produced by the bacteria can, in some individuals, probably be picked up by the blood and released via lungs, just like with garlic, or maybe rise the direct way via stomach and esophagus.

I know this is old news, but something weird happened yesterday that got me thinkin' about it again. I drank this very sweet liquor, just half a glass. Half an hour later, people around me said it smelt of 'gas'. I also felt some whiffs of that. My 'wind' at the time was odorless. But 3-4 hours later, my 'wind' smelt exactly like the gas complained about earlier. So if colonic bacteria were higher up in the GI system they may have metabolized the drink very soon after drinking it, releasing stinking gas, released via breath. Later some of it reach the colon and produce 'wind'. Makes sense? 8-[

Anyway, treating SIBO is with antibiotics + probiotics. Diagnosing it is with endoscopy + sample or a hydrogen breath test. Guess I'll try to get this done...
:shock:


me
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Postby me » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:18 pm

I guess possible, but not likely 95+ percent of people even on his forum have their problem solely in the oral cavity. The "shit" bacteria are on the back of your tongue and your tonsils too!


how are you so sure??? I belive the opossite. I think that bacteria has nothing to do with it. I think the problem comes from somewhere in the digestive system.

Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) is just what you described: more bacteria than normal in the small intestine, and an extended flora, sometimes similar to the colon flora. Some of the gas produced by the bacteria can, in some individuals, probably be picked up by the blood and released via lungs, just like with garlic, or maybe rise the direct way via stomach and esophagus.


I agree that could be a possiblity. Although it could be more plain simplistic. It could just be just gas zipping back up the pipes. In wich case what would be the reason for this gas coming back up is the question.

I
know this is old news, but something weird happened yesterday that got me thinkin' about it again. I drank this very sweet liquor, just half a glass. Half an hour later, people around me said it smelt of 'gas'. I also felt some whiffs of that. My 'wind' at the time was odorless. But 3-4 hours later, my 'wind' smelt exactly like the gas complained about earlier. So if colonic bacteria were higher up in the GI system they may have metabolized the drink very soon after drinking it, releasing stinking gas, released via breath. Later some of it reach the colon and produce 'wind'. Makes sense?


So you would agree that some food makes you smell worst than others. When I eat penautbutter I can smell this mixture of poop gas and rotten penautbutter every time I exhale until I poop it out. Once I poop, my poop smells the same way only stronger. My poop breath then is reduced but not eliminated. I don't go anywhere without taking a dump first :? :oops: .

Reading your story I'm thinking that you were probably smelling like gas all the time only the liquor made it worst and you were able to caught your own smell from your exhales. But really just because you don't smell it all the time doesn't mean is not there all the time. Not to bring you down though.

vilenin89
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Postby vilenin89 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:51 pm

But a lot of this is consistent with bacteria. You drink alcohol. It dries the mouth allows for bacteria overgrowth. People complain of shit breath 15-30 minutes later. Same with eating everything. The metabolic problem is real and secondary TMAU is definitely the problem for some people here, but just to be safe I hope everyone is tongue scraping and brushing and hydrogen peroxiding immediately after ever meal or at least 2-3 times a day (not vigorously enough to cause bleeding).

Larc400
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Postby Larc400 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:47 pm

I agree, and for most people oral bacteria is the cause. What got me thinking the cause may be intestinal bacteria in my case was the story told above 8)


Anyway, still waiting to see if anybody has actually tested for SIBO.

:-({|=

elliott
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Postby elliott » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:39 pm

I made a post about this but few were interested.

I just had SIBO hydrogen bacteria overgrowth breath test, and was quite surprised to see it was negative. I had a positive lactose and fructose intolerance however.

Regardless of the test, I still feel bacteria is an issue, but current tests can not detect everything.

As for lactose and fructose intolerance, they cannot be absorbed, they pass thru the colon which rejects it, and passes off gases that infiltrate the system. It may be part the cause of the gassy odor, mucous, breath, etc. that I have been experiencing. But I know there's more to it.

Any further discussion on this subject may be useful.

Danmeister
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Postby Danmeister » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:25 pm

Ive been thinking along the same line. I seem to get really sulphur smelling farts in the evening but only in the evening and is much worse after drinking lager. Breath wise Im pretty sure it comes about after swallowing, so although gum helps mask it also causes a lot of saliva to swallow. Ive ordered some flora balance off the internet and am going to try a low carb and dairy free diet for at least a month along with this probiotic and a few other vitamins hoping it makes a difference.

Larc400
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Postby Larc400 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:31 am

elliott wrote:I just had SIBO hydrogen bacteria overgrowth breath test, and was quite surprised to see it was negative. I had a positive lactose and fructose intolerance however.



I also had a hydrogen breath test when I lived in the UK, and it was negative. Those tests get a false negative in ~40% of cases though. Apparently they can choose different substances when they perform the test. Do you know which one they used for you?

Did they do the lactose/fructose intolerance test at the same time? Have you had any symptoms of lactose intolerance in the past?

I guess we could just treat SIBO (antibiotics + probiotics) in a trial-and-error way instead of relying on inaccurate testing? We just need to get hold of the relevant antibiotics 8-[ Or do we revisit our GPs yet again? What do you think, Elliot..?

iva
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Postby iva » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:05 am

"Some of the gas produced by the bacteria can, in some individuals..............rise the direct way via stomach and esophagus."

The ONLY way this can happen is when you burp. Someone studying medicine should be perfectly aware of that...

jollibee1208
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Postby jollibee1208 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:57 pm

yea i smell it sometimes.. after smoking but sometimes not. yea its really smell of a fart, and i got a comment "shit someone farted" #-o

well if im having BB, i always clean my back tongue with water and scrap. well its being neautralize but its effective. but after several minutes it keeps on coming back and thats what i wanna know.

i dont smell anything on my teeth. its just my throat and tongue :-({|=

meowkity1
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Postby meowkity1 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:13 pm

if your a smoker theres no point in helping you find a cure. Your cure is to stop smoking

halitosisux
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Postby halitosisux » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:01 pm

There's been some very detailed scientific research into why some people who get treated for helicobacter end up curing their BB - Even when they are found to remain infected with helicobacter after treatment.

This could be due to something else being eradicated, such as oral or sinus related infections, but far more likely be due to the treatment's effect on the gut flora.
For example, Metronidazole is frequently given to those with TMAU to reduce the amount of gut bacteria and thereby reducing the amount of Trimethylamine they produce from dietary choline etc - so why not other foul smelling chemicals?

Remember that digested food generally only starts to smell foul after its been sitting there fermenting in the areas where a colonic irrigation would aim to flush out. IF BB was coming from something going on down there then these irrigations would pinpoint the cause, but yet anyone who i've ever read about with BB who has tried this hasnt reported any benefits to their BB.

Lots of people say that laxatives help, which makes sense that if intestinal motility is increased then there will generally be less foulness to become absorbed into the bloodstream. And likewise, many report that their breath is worsened by constipation and bloating and slow intestinal motility.

And, unless anyone's burps smell foul enough to vacate a room, then there's nothing abnormal with the gas being passed.

Larc, have you had all your liver functioning checked? I know a few people who drink a lot and the smell that comes out of their body overnight is very foul and distinctive. I'm not implying that the drink you had was on this scale, but the fact that only a small amount of alcohol had the effect that it apparently had on you, then it might relate to your liver in a similar sort of way.

I had a friend once who had some minor liver problems and his breath smelled of pure rotten eggs at the time.

I also think that food intolerances might be exacerbating a situation rather than being the underlying cause of BB, based on what I've just mentioned. As far as I understand, people are born with intolerances, but yet most people's BB onset seems to occur in their teens.. when the gut flora gets messed up for whatever reason, such as with antibiotics etc.



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