Dont try to twist this now, we're talking about the treatment of helicobacter.
http://www.helico.com
This site was founded by the Nobel prize winning discoverer of the connection between helicobacter and gastric ulcers, Dr. Marshall.
Take a look in the therapies section and note that it clearly states PROVEN therapies. No mention of any natural medicines in there, only ANTIBIOTIC treatments.
Look deeper and this is in the FAQ section:-
Are there any alternative medications for eliminating H. pylori?
No. Alternative medicines are an alternative for patients who are unable to be treated by conventional medicine (in my opinion). Thus, the treatment for H. pylori is known, so alternative medicines are unnecessary. The large multinational drug companies, who spend millions of dollars per year studying these compounds, have investigated most of the alternative medications for therapeutic effect. If any alternative medications are found to be effective for H. pylori they will be rapidly brought to the marketplace and provided as prescription drugs. Since none of them have been marketed in this way so far, we can presume that none of them have been found to be effective for H. pylori. No doubt many things we eat can effect H. pylori by causing its numbers to increase or decrease, but so far no natural foods or medications have been found to actually cure the infection. Without total cure of the infection, the problem never resolves.
Are there any efforts being made towards homoeopathic treatment of H. pylori?
Not really. Homeopathy, naturopathy etc, are generally a waste of time once the true course of a disease is understood (like H. pylori).
This is what wikipedia generally has to say about the industry of natural/alternative medicine:-
"Naturopathy medicine is criticized for its reliance on and its association with unproven, disproven, and other controversial alternative medical treatments, and for its vitalistic underpinnings. As with any alternative care, there is a risk of misdiagnosis; this risk may be lower depending on level of training. There is also a risk that ailments that cannot be diagnosed by naturopaths will go untreated while a patient attempts treatment programs designed by their naturopath. Certain naturopathic treatments, such as homeopathy and iridology, are widely considered pseudoscience or quackery.Natural methods and chemicals are not necessarily safer or more effective than artificial or synthetic ones; any treatment capable of eliciting an effect may also have deleterious side effects."
"The Textbook of Natural Medicine is inadequate as a teaching tool, as it omits to mention or treat in detail many common ailments, improperly emphasizes treatments "not likely to be effective" over those that are, and promotes unproven herbal remedies at the expense of pharmaceuticals. He concludes that "the risks to many sick patients seeking care from the average naturopathic practitioner would far outweigh any possible benefits."
So, TIRED, it seems I did have my facts right.
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h Pylori virus
hello
Hello, everyone!
Interesting thread. The reason for my BB h pylori. The doctor wrote out antiobiotika to me but my BB came back after I ended up reading =(
Now that I know that is the cause h pylori, so I wonder if there is someone here who knows how to cure h pylori?
I read in another thread about Flagyl? Is that good?
Grateful for answers
Interesting thread. The reason for my BB h pylori. The doctor wrote out antiobiotika to me but my BB came back after I ended up reading =(
Now that I know that is the cause h pylori, so I wonder if there is someone here who knows how to cure h pylori?
I read in another thread about Flagyl? Is that good?
Grateful for answers
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halitosisux
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Who has motives? Drug companies who developed and patented certain anti-ulcer drugs lost out on zillions in potential sales because of this discovery.
The information on that site is based on proven FACT. So yes I believe it. Dont you?
And btw, you've had BB for many years, if natural medicine is so superior why have you still got BB? what's it done for you apart from ZILCH
@mimmi have a read of the treatment section in the link above. Sounds like you need to go back to your doctor.
The information on that site is based on proven FACT. So yes I believe it. Dont you?
And btw, you've had BB for many years, if natural medicine is so superior why have you still got BB? what's it done for you apart from ZILCH
@mimmi have a read of the treatment section in the link above. Sounds like you need to go back to your doctor.
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KeepTrying09
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Hey guys. I just wanted to through my support behind Halitosisux. He is one of the most knowledgeable members this forum has. I thoroughly enjoy reading his posts, and find them to be both factual and thoughtful. This forum wouldn't be the same without him.
TIRED, no offense but it seems like you are a bit angry at the world and needed someone to take it out on, and Halitosisux just ended up in your firing range. It's ok to be mad, angry, upset, etc. because living with bad breath is not easy. But we don't have to take our frustrations out on those who are here trying to help. Try channeling your anger at finding a cure. It would be energy better spent.
And about natural treatments vs. non natural treatments, I think a mixed approach is best. There is no reason why natural medicine cannot complement modern medicine. Instead of people trying to make it a contest between the two, they should be looking at ways on how they can use the two synergistically to maximize successful outcomes.
TIRED, no offense but it seems like you are a bit angry at the world and needed someone to take it out on, and Halitosisux just ended up in your firing range. It's ok to be mad, angry, upset, etc. because living with bad breath is not easy. But we don't have to take our frustrations out on those who are here trying to help. Try channeling your anger at finding a cure. It would be energy better spent.
And about natural treatments vs. non natural treatments, I think a mixed approach is best. There is no reason why natural medicine cannot complement modern medicine. Instead of people trying to make it a contest between the two, they should be looking at ways on how they can use the two synergistically to maximize successful outcomes.
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halitosisux
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Thanks for your support there KT. I totally agree with what you said, that the most effective approach needs to be a combination of whatever happens to be the most effective.
The last thing I want to do is upset anyone, but I speak my mind and often stick my neck out on here, but I do try to be rational about everything, even if that involves saying things that some would rather not hear. The worst thing we can do is to keep going round in the same circles. I have always tried to see things from new or different perspectives and if that makes me an irritating ass, then so be it.
I'm never going to give up discussing with others on here while there is a single person going through the same hell I went through. And I think as long as we all keep doing that the sooner there will be a breakthrough. People like aydinmur are out there who want to understand why this age old problem of BB is still able to devastate so many lives. It simply hasnt been a priority to solve, whether that be for commercial reasons or what. Like Aydinmur said, there are still the most basic things that are not yet understood, so how the hell can the overall problem ever get solved like this. But if there was priority and willingness to do so, that would never be the case. And that's all it takes to solve this problem, an understanding of the fundamental basics, and then the whole puzzle eventually gets solved.
The last thing I want to do is upset anyone, but I speak my mind and often stick my neck out on here, but I do try to be rational about everything, even if that involves saying things that some would rather not hear. The worst thing we can do is to keep going round in the same circles. I have always tried to see things from new or different perspectives and if that makes me an irritating ass, then so be it.
I'm never going to give up discussing with others on here while there is a single person going through the same hell I went through. And I think as long as we all keep doing that the sooner there will be a breakthrough. People like aydinmur are out there who want to understand why this age old problem of BB is still able to devastate so many lives. It simply hasnt been a priority to solve, whether that be for commercial reasons or what. Like Aydinmur said, there are still the most basic things that are not yet understood, so how the hell can the overall problem ever get solved like this. But if there was priority and willingness to do so, that would never be the case. And that's all it takes to solve this problem, an understanding of the fundamental basics, and then the whole puzzle eventually gets solved.
Hey halitosisux,
I have to disagree with you on this one. I personally think I would go the alternative route first and than go to conventional meds. All these big drug companies may do all these big studies but most of them are crap and falsified anyway. Why do you think they are always getting sued?? And always pulling things off the shelf? Cause they haven't done the research correctly and end up killing lots of folks every year.
Personally I think most of them will rot in hell with the devil!
Just my opinion. You know I think you are great though hali!
Susie
I have to disagree with you on this one. I personally think I would go the alternative route first and than go to conventional meds. All these big drug companies may do all these big studies but most of them are crap and falsified anyway. Why do you think they are always getting sued?? And always pulling things off the shelf? Cause they haven't done the research correctly and end up killing lots of folks every year.
Personally I think most of them will rot in hell with the devil!
Just my opinion. You know I think you are great though hali!
Susie
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KeepTrying09
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I somewhat agree and disagree with what Susie says. I think natural remedies do indeed play an important role in health and wellbeing. I think a lot of the potential in alternative therapies has yet to be discovered. And I think that if a person chooses to try alternative therapies before they turn to conventional therapies, then they have that right.
However, I do not think that drug companies are the devil. Yes, drug companies are not perfect, and they have made mistakes, but the bottom line is, it is impossible to make something that is safe for 100% of the people. Drug companies spend billions of dollars and it takes years before 1 new pharmaceutical is released to the general public. Not to mention that it has to be approved by regulatory bodies such as the FDA. To say that there is a grand conspiracy that everyone who works in the medical industry is involved in is just ridiculous (not to mention borderline paranoid schizophrenic). You are correct, that every year there are reported deaths from pharmaceutical products. But put that into perspective. Every year there are hundreds of millions of people who are saved by modern medicine and pharmaceuticals. Those people who unfortunately die usually shouldn't have been taking that medication to begin with. For example, a person who has a history of heart problems has no business taking Viagra, because Viagra can cause sudden heart failure for those people. But yet you hear on the news about people who have heart problems who died because they took Viagra. Whose fault is this? Is it the person's fault? Is it the doctor's fault? Is it the drug companies fault? It's not an easy question to answer. Also, look at Michael Jackson. He died from a lethal mix of pharmaceuticals. Should we blame the drug companies who made them? Should we blame the doctor who administered them? Should we blame Michael Jackson for mixing these medications and taking them in high doses to begin with?
Again, nothing can ever be 100% safe for 100% of the people on this planet. If every single person on the planet ate shellfish tonight for dinner, how many deaths do you think would occur? There are people who are severely allergic to shellfish and have no business eating it. Likewise, there are certain people who have no business taking certain pharmaceuticals.
However, I do agree with you though that there are faults in the whole medical industry, as there are faults in every industry on this planet. But that's a whole other conversation completely, and I could go on and on about it for hours. I think the main point is, there are risks with everything you do in life. Nothing is 100% safe, and in regards to medicine, even alternative therapies can be dangerous for some. The best thing a person can do for themselves is to become educated about whatever they are researching, gather facts and information from numerous unbiased sources, look at the big picture, put everything into perspective, weigh the risks and benefits, and then make an informed educated decision.
However, I do not think that drug companies are the devil. Yes, drug companies are not perfect, and they have made mistakes, but the bottom line is, it is impossible to make something that is safe for 100% of the people. Drug companies spend billions of dollars and it takes years before 1 new pharmaceutical is released to the general public. Not to mention that it has to be approved by regulatory bodies such as the FDA. To say that there is a grand conspiracy that everyone who works in the medical industry is involved in is just ridiculous (not to mention borderline paranoid schizophrenic). You are correct, that every year there are reported deaths from pharmaceutical products. But put that into perspective. Every year there are hundreds of millions of people who are saved by modern medicine and pharmaceuticals. Those people who unfortunately die usually shouldn't have been taking that medication to begin with. For example, a person who has a history of heart problems has no business taking Viagra, because Viagra can cause sudden heart failure for those people. But yet you hear on the news about people who have heart problems who died because they took Viagra. Whose fault is this? Is it the person's fault? Is it the doctor's fault? Is it the drug companies fault? It's not an easy question to answer. Also, look at Michael Jackson. He died from a lethal mix of pharmaceuticals. Should we blame the drug companies who made them? Should we blame the doctor who administered them? Should we blame Michael Jackson for mixing these medications and taking them in high doses to begin with?
Again, nothing can ever be 100% safe for 100% of the people on this planet. If every single person on the planet ate shellfish tonight for dinner, how many deaths do you think would occur? There are people who are severely allergic to shellfish and have no business eating it. Likewise, there are certain people who have no business taking certain pharmaceuticals.
However, I do agree with you though that there are faults in the whole medical industry, as there are faults in every industry on this planet. But that's a whole other conversation completely, and I could go on and on about it for hours. I think the main point is, there are risks with everything you do in life. Nothing is 100% safe, and in regards to medicine, even alternative therapies can be dangerous for some. The best thing a person can do for themselves is to become educated about whatever they are researching, gather facts and information from numerous unbiased sources, look at the big picture, put everything into perspective, weigh the risks and benefits, and then make an informed educated decision.
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halitosisux
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lol Susie, only just seen your post in here.... fighttttttttttttt!!
oh waitt, u said I'm great! - I'll let u off the spanking this time :-(
It totally depends on what you are trying to achieve. A person with pneumonia doesnt get sent to their local healthfood store, they are treated as an emergency and get sent to hospital where they are treated conventionally - it would literally be criminal to do otherwise.
Helicobacter, the facts speak for themselves. Proven treatments using conventional therapies.
BB is different in that we need to self-experiment because we dont get treated like other illnesses. We're out there on our own, in despair looking for a solution.
So, its about balancing the risks and the urgency. Most alternative therpy is seen as safer than conventional. But is alternative generally as effective as conventional? In some cases it might well be, but in most cases it is NOT.
I think keeptrying got it spot on, its about making the most effective use of BOTH.
One other point is that conventional meds go through far more scrutiny. Placebo effects, for example, are taken into consideration, which is totally not the case for most alternatives, and which is mostly what the whole business model of alternatives is based upon, and in most countries its completely unregulated, they can claim whatever advertising laws permit them to, which is pretty much anything they want.
oh waitt, u said I'm great! - I'll let u off the spanking this time :-(
It totally depends on what you are trying to achieve. A person with pneumonia doesnt get sent to their local healthfood store, they are treated as an emergency and get sent to hospital where they are treated conventionally - it would literally be criminal to do otherwise.
Helicobacter, the facts speak for themselves. Proven treatments using conventional therapies.
BB is different in that we need to self-experiment because we dont get treated like other illnesses. We're out there on our own, in despair looking for a solution.
So, its about balancing the risks and the urgency. Most alternative therpy is seen as safer than conventional. But is alternative generally as effective as conventional? In some cases it might well be, but in most cases it is NOT.
I think keeptrying got it spot on, its about making the most effective use of BOTH.
One other point is that conventional meds go through far more scrutiny. Placebo effects, for example, are taken into consideration, which is totally not the case for most alternatives, and which is mostly what the whole business model of alternatives is based upon, and in most countries its completely unregulated, they can claim whatever advertising laws permit them to, which is pretty much anything they want.
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KeepTrying09
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- Location: Thailand
LOL, not at all. I am only saying that believing that an entire industry (such as the medical industry) is involved in some grand conspiracy that would harm the general public is not logical.Susie wrote:KeepTrying09 wrote:I To say that there is a grand conspiracy that everyone who works in the medical industry is involved in is just ridiculous (not to mention borderline paranoid schizophrenic). .
I really hope that wasn't directed at me!!
Susie
HAHA, trying to instigate a fight there eh Hal? LOL, I don't want to fight with anyone, only here to help.halitosisux wrote:lol Susie, only just seen your post in here.... fighttttttttttttt!!
oh waitt, u said I'm great! - I'll let u off the spanking this time :-(
It totally depends on what you are trying to achieve. A person with pneumonia doesnt get sent to their local healthfood store, they are treated as an emergency and get sent to hospital where they are treated conventionally - it would literally be criminal to do otherwise.
Helicobacter, the facts speak for themselves. Proven treatments using conventional therapies.
BB is different in that we need to self-experiment because we dont get treated like other illnesses. We're out there on our own, in despair looking for a solution.
So, its about balancing the risks and the urgency. Most alternative therpy is seen as safer than conventional. But is alternative generally as effective as conventional? In some cases it might well be, but in most cases it is NOT.
I think keeptrying got it spot on, its about making the most effective use of BOTH.
One other point is that conventional meds go through far more scrutiny. Placebo effects, for example, are taken into consideration, which is totally not the case for most alternatives, and which is mostly what the whole business model of alternatives is based upon, and in most countries its completely unregulated, they can claim whatever advertising laws permit them to, which is pretty much anything they want.
.I totally agree with you though about the alternative treatment industry not regulated. By law they are allowed to make any claim that they want, and there are no government regulatory bodies to monitor them. I find that scarier than anything that has to do with the conventional medical industry.
hello
I have taken Flagyl for three days now and about my bad breath is gone, totally amazing! I feel like a "man" now. The problem is that I know it is a good chance of it coming back (especially considering that I did not have enough pills) and I will be devastated. I sometimes wish I had not been aware of this "luck" because I know that it is not long ... 
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halitosisux
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yeah I'm not a borerline paranoid schizo haha!-
KeepTrying09
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Re: hello
Hey Mimmi,mimmi wrote:I have taken Flagyl for three days now and about my bad breath is gone, totally amazing! I feel like a "man" now. The problem is that I know it is a good chance of it coming back (especially considering that I did not have enough pills) and I will be devastated. I sometimes wish I had not been aware of this "luck" because I know that it is not long ...
Don't assume your bad breath will just come back. When you wrote your post you were only three days into your treatment. You should try to remain upbeat instead of negative, otherwise your prediction will most likely come true.
Now I assume you are finished with your Flagyl. Hopefully you will find continued success, but remember that it takes more than just popping pills to make sure that your bad breath is eliminated permanently. You have to change your diet and lifestyle choices, and you should be supplementing with probiotics on a daily basis to keep your body populated with the right kinds of bacteria.
Let us know how you are doing now.
