BB COMING FROM THE BACK OF OUR THROATS

[elliott]

Other than the lower esophageal sphincter being unable to contract properly, which is known as hiatus hernia, there is no other test that I know of.

There are tests called manometry that can test the pressure of the esophagus while swallowing, tests that check whether foods are moving the proper direction from the esophagus through the LES to the stomach, or if stomach contents are active in the esophagus over a 32 hour period of time. The internal overnight test is hard, and not worth it. These tests are not meant for halitosis sufferers like us, they are meant for typical digestive conditions like IBS or other bowel disorders. Our problems may be more complex, or perhaps actually simpler than that. AT the end of the day neither of these tests are accurate enough (IMO) to achieve conclusive results towards whatever ails us.

Anyway, I have your symptoms, I think we discussed this before. Be careful with the gauze. You know that the viscous mucous material is there, it will come back. Even if you clean it, it probably still stinks, so really consider whether it's worth it. I'd bet that 1 hour after eating, stomach breaks down food, and that thick material will slide right back into your esophageal lining. I can pretty much feel it happening at this point. If you want to test the smell/strength, just squeeze your throat area while sucking in. The harder you suck, the more of it you will sense is there. And like you say, what you eat, when you eat... all has to do with the potency of this "congestion".

I've found that eating smaller meals, carefully chosen foods, and not eating late helps.
I also have learned to avoid certain foods, but not to kill myself by starvation, because you then might be confused by a different odor.

Currently, I am intrigued by extra strength probiotics, and the Flagyl/Biozole treatment being discussed. Look into it. I think it pinpoints a source rather than the symptoms.

If you go at this with a reflux or SIBO angle, the doctors will probably send you down the road we're all too familiar with.

[iva]

true, Elliott

I think the direct reason for the smell are biofilms and from what I`ve been reading, these are almost impossible to break. Flagyl and Metronidazole work temporarily; when stopped, the biofilm is back to normal and maybe stronger

[halitosisux]

Renato, it might be possible that you have SIBO for other reasons and that this sets up a cycle of stomach/esophegal/biofilm problems.

Have you had full immunological tests?
KT ended up with candida overgrowth in his esophagus. There are plenty of ways the average person could end up with that happening. Even simple asthma medications or reflux medications can cause this.

I dont know if lactose and fructose and other similar intolerances can lead to SIBO, maybe that's a possibility?

The bad odour when burping is significant. What happens to your BB symptoms when you try antibiotics like metronidazole?

[me]

I have been done two upper endoscopies, none of them revealed acid reflux, however the recent one showed a patulous lower esophageal sphincter. My GE thinks is not enough to diagnose silent reflux.

Have you ever been told your breath smells like poop?? Because if you have maybe the open lower esophageal sphincter is letting the gas out some how. Or maybe you have both gas releaising and silent reflux because of it.

[Renato]

Renato, it might be possible that you have SIBO for other reasons and that this sets up a cycle of stomach/esophegal/biofilm problems.

Have you had full immunological tests?
KT ended up with candida overgrowth in his esophagus. There are plenty of ways the average person could end up with that happening. Even simple asthma medications or reflux medications can cause this.

I dont know if lactose and fructose and other similar intolerances can lead to SIBO, maybe that's a possibility?

The bad odour when burping is significant. What happens to your BB symptoms when you try antibiotics like metronidazole?

Halitosisux,

I have been asking myself all these questions,

May be so much sugar from un- absorbed fructose in small intestines causes overgrowth of bacteria, then reflux overcome, then bacteria/fungus overgrowth in esophagus, throat, tongue etc.ending in BB.

I cut off all dairy since 10 years ago, and avoid vegetables, fruits, high fructose products, etc. ( But impossible to eliminate fructose, almost all products contain fructose including some meat wich are preserved in high fructose syrups).

When eating these high fructose foods my stomach expands out and exacerbates my reflux problem.

But whatever it comes up to my esophagus must to be putrefacted. Other persons suffering with acid reflux do not have BB.

So I think now, I may have an issue with my stomach.

I have not tried metronidazol, but other antibiotics reduces my BB for a while.

I will have an ENT and GE appoinments next week, so I will ask for a blood differential, intestine/ esophageal endoscopy (I think candida is growing far too much in my esophaus).

10 minutes after eating any sugar or bread I feel acidic secretion in my esophagus and people keep apart of me.

I will also ask to the ENT to verify for candida in my sinuses, because I can smell something cheese from my nose. Certainly, my BB from mouth is not cheese, it could be fecal .

I can live with a cheese odor, but not this disgusting smell.

I hope to meet a comprensive Dr next week.

[Renato]

I have been done two upper endoscopies, none of them revealed acid reflux, however the recent one showed a patulous lower esophageal sphincter. My GE thinks is not enough to diagnose silent reflux.

Have you ever been told your breath smells like poop?? Because if you have maybe the open lower esophageal sphincter is letting the gas out some how. Or maybe you have both gas releaising and silent reflux because of it.

Nobody has told me what is the odor but is realy bad, may be fecal.

I also think that gases passing to my esophagus are allowing fluids to do so.
I had a friend some time ago who was pulping as crazy, but he did not have BB.

SO the excesive gases on me do not explain why I should have BB.

I need to be focud now on the small intetines I think.

[halitosisux]

Renato, I hope something is found with your nose when you see the ENT. All your odour problems could be originating from there, and all your digestive issues could have nothing to do with it. Lots of people suffer with digestive problems without having BB. I think aydinmur said recently that candida overgrowths will cause a cheesy odour.

BTW dont let your ENT fob you off by trying to determine whether you have problems inside your sinuses by merely looking for the standard symptoms and signs of a bacterial infection. Fungal infections inside the sinuses are difficult to detect and even more difficult to eradicate. There's only certain types of scan which will detect a fungal infection in the sinuses. And remember its not just the maxillary sinuses which can have these issues. Fungal infection up there can even be completely asymptomatic, except for the odour of course. I've read somewhere that the very worst cases of BB can occur from fungal infections of the sinuses.

Good luck!

[Larc400]

I follow this thread with interest


-Have you tried any other way to clean your eso? It just sound like a risky procedure ... maybe we can think of something better? Maybe swallowing a cotton ball drenched in a mild antibacterial?


-I've wondered if I have some kind of unusual reflux problem. The only symptom is that if I fall asleep on my left side, I will suddenly wake up at night feeling like I'm gonna throw up. When I sit up in bed, it disappears instantly. Do you have this symptom too? I have no heartburn, and no other symptoms of reflux.


-You say your tongue / back of throat is easily cleaned with manual cleaning / mouth wash. For how long are those areas stench free after a cleanse?

[Renato]

Renato, I hope something is found with your nose when you see the ENT. All your odour problems could be originating from there, and all your digestive issues could have nothing to do with it. Lots of people suffer with digestive problems without having BB. I think aydinmur said recently that canat the very worst cases of BB can occur from fungal infections of the sinuses.

Good luck!

I saw the ENT three weeks ago, for the third time this year and he did not find any thing wrong with my sinuses. No sign of candida infection, no overproduction of mucus, though I can smell a middle odor from my nose
when pushing my nostrils back to my face with the palm of my hand (is not completely fecal odor, but not too good).


My silent reflux still real for me and the strong odor still coming from my esophagus.

[Renato]

I have been done two upper endoscopies, none of them revealed acid reflux, however the recent one showed a patulous lower esophageal sphincter. My GE thinks is not enough to diagnose silent reflux.

Have you ever been told your breath smells like poop?? Because if you have maybe the open lower esophageal sphincter is letting the gas out some how. Or maybe you have both gas releaising and silent reflux because of it.

I started to see another GE doctor, now from one of the best medical hospital in USA.


This very proffesional doctor ordered again all test to diagnose reflux or regurgitation problems.

Last week, I had a radiological test to see how liquids come down from my esophagus to my stomach. Fortunately, this time they looked carefully and found that there was not a classical reflux, but my lower sphincter seemed to be wide open, since this barium solution I drunk was moving back to my proximal esophagus when lying on my sides. Interestingly, they did not see the liquid coming up to my throat (previous Drs were looking for this reflux condition), but on my esophagus close to my stomach. Also they thought that gases passing through my esophagus may carried up liquids.


As I said before, mouth washes refresh my mouth and throat, but I still have this BB from my esophagus as confirmed by my cotton strip swallowing test.

Drs were surprised when I told them about my test to verify the main source of my BB.So they did not hesitate to order an upper endoscopy, which was perfomed just 2 hours ago.

[Renato]

I follow this thread with interest


-Have you tried any other way to clean your eso? It just sound like a risky procedure ... maybe we can think of something better? Maybe swallowing a cotton ball drenched in a mild antibacterial?


-I've wondered if I have some kind of unusual reflux problem. The only symptom is that if I fall asleep on my left side, I will suddenly wake up at night feeling like I'm gonna throw up. When I sit up in bed, it disappears instantly. Do you have this symptom too? I have no heartburn, and no other symptoms of reflux.

My reflux is silent, no burning sensation,but sensation of fluids, and actual fluids in my mouth when lying down. Horrible taste on mornings which correlates with horrible BB.


Accordingly to my cotton strip test,
after cleaning this cotton strip and smelling it next day I can now know how horrible was my BB the day before. SO, when the odor next day is not so bad from this cotton strip, my mouth taste the day before was not so bad (This happens when having very little meals or dinner with no meats). .

Very bad odor when having dinner with meats, eggs or any food rich in proteins.

My endoscopy test showed something interesting, which need to be carefully analyzed by my doctor.

I will read how to post pics, so I can post my endoscopy results tomorrow.

[popaloo]

Hey everyone,
Good thread this one. I wanted to ask Renato, what country do you live in because its seems like you have a great doctor to be sending you for all these tests!
I have had two tests on my sinuses in recent years, i live in the uk, and i felt lucky to have got these after reading what others go through in different countries.
I had never heard of silent reflux? but i too suffer with bad post nasal drip. The tests come back clear from the ENT. They put a camera up my nose and had a look around. I laughed when the doctor pulled the camera back out and it was covered in mucus and he said ' ohh you do have an over production of mucus'. Ermmmmmmmmm what the hell do you think im sat here in front of you for!!!
He send me away with 'non-allergic rhinitis'. I asked if there was anything he could do for it, he said there wasn't. Its just one of those things!!
I have taken all the sprays he recommended so he said he could give me some drops to put in my nose but alas they didn't work.
I get a horrible taste when i close my mouth and breath down by nose but i taste the odour, even though my mouth is closed! its hard to explain.
Its like the burning taste/smell that you get when you are sick and it comes though your nose as well as your mouth. Thats the only way i can describe it.

[Renato]

I'm very optimistic now. I hope someday will have the silent reflux diagnosed and the surgery on my lower esophageal sphincter authorized.

I could not post the Pics of the endoscopy performed on me the last week, since there is no mean for uploading images directly to this board, other than linking to images stored on unrelated public accessible web server. So, to avoid posting in other servers, I decided to post just the text here, anyway the Pics were normal, except that some tinny white dots were noticeable, which in appearance are not the same as shown by "Keeptrying" endoscopy results.

This is the text:

JOHNS HOPKINS
N E D I C I N E
JHOC Endoscopy Center
601 N. Caroline Street
Baltimore, MD 21287
410.955.9427
NAME: DATE 08/11/2010
MR #: G.I.
ATTENDING: Francis Millian. MD
DOB: ASSISTING PHYSICIAN: MD
REFERRING PHYSICIAN: Dr. Mross

PROCEDURE: EGD with biopsy
PREOPERATIVE DIAGNOSIS: The patient male here for an upper endoscopy for the evaluation of 1) Gastroesophageal Rellux Disease.

MEDICATIONS: Monitored Anesthesia Care. No Topical Anesthesia MON ITOR1NG: Johns Hopkins Standard

PRE-PROCEDURE EXAM: Please see pre-procedure history and physical exam in Medical Records.

DESCRIPTION OF PROCEDURE: After the risks, benefits and alternatives of the procedure were thoroughly explained. informed consent was obtained. Immediately prior to the procedure. the “time out” executed including correct patient identification and agreement on the procedure to be performed. The 2203769. GIF 100 endoscope was introduced through the mouth and advanced to the second portion of the duodenum. The mucosa was examined carefully as the instrument was withdrawn.


FINDINGS: The duodenal bulb was normal in appearance. as was the postbulbar duodenum. The stomach mucosa was normal. There was no retained food. A normal GE junction was noted at 39cm from the incisors. The Z line was regular. There were scant tiny white nodules in the mid and distal esophagus of unknown significance.

There was no esophagitis. Biopsies from the stomach, distal esophagus. and proximal esophagus were taken. Retroflexion of the endoscope revealed no abnormalities. The scope was then completely withdrawn from the patient and the procedure.


COMPLICATIONS: ‘I’here were no immediate complications.

POSTOPERATIVE DIAGNOSIS:
1) Tiny white nodules in the esophagus
2) Otherwise normal endoscopy

RECOMMENDATIONS:
I) await biopsy results
2) Proceed with pH/impedence and

REPEAT EXAM: As needed.
Attending physician was present for the entire procedure.
n.
eSIGNED: Francis Milligan at 08/11/2010 08:39 AM













Although, they found everything normal.
They saw something in my esophagus which seems to be bacterial or fungus growth.

This procedure was performed by another doctor, so I have not talked to my GE doctor yet. Also, I will have two other tests done this monday, which are called pH impedence and monometry study.

I have been done these tests before(three years ago), but at that time Drs. did not pay attention to any minimal leak, since they were looking for the classical acid reflux.

I hope this information will help BB suffers related to Type-3 halitosis.

[KeepTrying09]

Hey Renato,

Reading your post gave me flashbacks man. From the report it looks like they took a biopsy of the white nodules in your esophagus? I hope they did anyway. Hopefully you will get those results back soon. Let us know what turns up man, i'm interested to hear.

[aydinmur]

... snip... There was no esophagitis. Biopsies from the stomach, distal esophagus. and proximal esophagus were taken.

Dear Renato,
I wonder biopsy result. Can you please share it with us?
Lichen? Tofus? Candidial plaque? Amyloidos?
Thanks
-M