What exactly is considered halitosis?

[JoseJavier]

I watched one episode of British "Embarrassing Illnesses" tv series where some dentist performed organoleptic evaluation on BB sufferer: doctor asked her to count from 1 to 10 while he had his head very close to her mouth and inhaled her breath. Then it was repeated with the nurse and subsequently both of them stated how do they evaluate quality of her breath (i think doctor said 3 and nurse 3.5 where 1 means no halitois and 5 is the most severe one)

My question is what is considered halitosis and what it not? There is small part of people (mostly young ones but not only) no matter how close you speak with them you smell nothing and i really mean *nothing*.

But you can smell at least something when you speak close enough to most of the people. And it isnt necessarily have to be offensive, but you just notice there is *something*.

Sorry for my English

[halitosisux]

Halitosis is noticeable malodour on the breath. Every mouth produces a certain amount of odour, but is only detectable by others when the 'strength' of any particular odour 'gas' goes above a certain threshold level.

I just tried a search on youtube and I think I found this clip. I dont know whether this particular one is viewable outside the UK though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsWwzXZc27M

They took tongue scrapings from random people in the street and they all had smelly tongue scrapings.

[JoseJavier]

Yea this clip is the one i was writing about and it should be viewable outside of UK as im living quite far from there.

Ok, halitosis is noticeable malodor as we all know, but the problem is what is considered noticeable - because as you wrote most of the people produce *some* amount and kind of odor but it varies from being very weak and perfectly acceptable to extremely strong which severely impairs social interaction.

In the end some people may think i have halitosis and some may not, depending on the sensitivity of their nose (women usually are more suspectible to smells), tolerance of certains odors (women again), etc.

[halitosisux]

Yes, I think when its borderline BB some people will smell it while others might not. But when its very potent odour, anyone will be able to smell it. When there's a really bad smell of sewage or farm odour in the air you never get anyone saying they cant smell it.
Also, I think a lot of confusion over BB detection might be due to the odour being intermittently released.

[brightonguy]

In halimeter terms if you register <75 ppb VSC then no-one can smell it then above that it starts to become noticeable depending on the sensitivity of the person smelling it but once you get >125 ppb VSC then everyone can smell it. At what level of VSC it becomes offensive though and induces frantic reactions from people also depends on the individual to some (but probably not a large) extent

[JoseJavier]

"...frantic reactions from people..."

Yes, halimeter measure certain sulfur compounds which is reliable method for most of the people, but some here on the forum wrote they have BB (getting reactions from others) but halimeter shows they are ok (just to make this clear).

[halitosisux]

Gas spectrometers can detect every type of gas in a given sample. The oral chroma test uses gas spectroscopy but only looks for certain types of gasses that have been found to be commonly associated with bad breath. The halimeter detects even less gas types, and is an inherently unreliable way of determining whether a person has BB or not (which is probaby why lots of crooks use them today so they can fob their patients off with whatever they want them to believe) because as aydinmur has shown us, there are many common foods and household items that give off high levels of VSCs, which could very easily mislead while trying to determine whether a person has bad breath or not.

So basically, a halimeter could give you the all clear, yet you could stink of something the halimeter is unable to detect. And vice versa, you might not smell bad at all, but the halimeter is getting high VSC readings from something you have recently eaten (as an example).

In competent hands though, a halimeter can be useful as a benchmark and as a means of providing feedback on any measures being taken to combat certain causes of bad breath.

[OneDay111]

The best instrument of measuring bad breath is the nose.

[halitosisux]

That's what I meant by competent hands. Someone who is genuinely trying to help you will rely first and foremost on their own sense of smell.

But then it goes back to the issue of whether or not you trust what that person is telling you. So its good to understand the basics behind the diagnostic intruments, so that you can interpret for yourself what's going on, rather than having to completely trust (or mistrust) what someone is telling you.

[OneDay111]

Unfortunately many people on this board will never consider someone elses view unless they say they have bad breath. Thats why we need scientific instruments which does not give secondary data.

[halitosisux]

exactly

[aydinmur]

Yes. Halitometers dont diagnose halitosis. They detect some gases only.

If a person says I have halitosis, then, he is a halitosis patient.
No need further measurement. He may be type 5 or not but eventually, he must be assumed halitosis patient.

Some doctors smell patient's mouth or they support the idea to smell one person's mouth. I find this may not be ethic. Its primitive and digusting method.

- Murat Aydin

[thomasthomas]

Interesting thread. There is a methodological limit: bb can be intermittent. Moreover, halitometers detect a limited range, and a human nose as acute as he can be may smell something (a neutral smell) at a moment that discredits the bb guy! I think human nose is definitely not the deal for scientific data and information gathering.

Dr aydinmur: does a machine exists that can determine if you suffer from bb whether you smell or don't smell bad at the moment? I mean, is there a sort of chemical "mark"?

[aydinmur]

Dr aydinmur: does a machine exists that can determine if you suffer from bb whether you smell or don't smell bad at the moment? I mean, is there a sort of chemical "mark"?

No, there is not a sensor that can distinguish good or bad smell. At least I never read somewhere such machine. Even current machines can not truely know whether or not all smells present in a mouth.

We (humans) give meaning bad or good notion to aromatic compounds. Sensors of machines can only detect electrical conductivity of that aromatic compound.

According to its manucaturer, M410 CO sensor can distinguish bad smells in mouth. Here manual: http://agizkokusu.net/garbage/M410.pdf

- Murat ydin

[brightonguy]

There are various studies out there which show that organoleptic scores correlate well with Halimeter readings. I understand that there are odourous gases not detected by the Halimeter but it's certainly far from a useless instrument! It's biggest problem - and this goes for organoleptic assessments too - is that it gives you just a snapshot from an instant in time. I know my BB varies dramatically.... oh how I'd love to be wired up to a machine for a week to understand the dynamics of my breath better, LOL (with a few tears)