Vitamin B Complex - Results & Theory

[nicc]

Hi Searching,
thanks for the thread. a few questions :
are you now back to 1 daily tablet intake?
are you still doing the waterpik procedure+colgate total?

when you say:

My tonsils stopped producing a positive result when subjected to the Finkelstein tonsil smell test mentioned here. The localized high-concentration of the VSC source, including upon waking, appears to be gone.

does this mean that if you pull out a stone from your tonsils it just doesn't smell at all now? or you are no longer producing tonsils stones at all by now?

is you tongue pinker?
thanks for the patience

[searching]

are you now back to 1 daily tablet intake?
are you still doing the waterpik procedure+colgate total?

when you say:

My tonsils stopped producing a positive result when subjected to the Finkelstein tonsil smell test mentioned here. The localized high-concentration of the VSC source, including upon waking, appears to be gone.

does this mean that if you pull out a stone from your tonsils it just doesn't smell at all now? or you are no longer producing tonsils stones at all by now?
is your tongue pinker?

Hi nicc,

Something in my system has, perhaps temporarily, changed for-the-better. The scalp and skin rashes are gone with no other medication or treatment. No instruments, tests, or human-feedback, are needed to verify that. Coincidentally the baseline-taste I have is neutral.

My tonsils, which produced [local] odor, as evidenced by touching, or pressing, them, have ceased to produce any smell. I haven’t seen evidence of tonsil stones; however, I’m not certain they have stopped forming.

My tongue is pink, although it has appeared that way for years, despite my condition.

Overall, my BB has reduced to the point where I have relaxed many of the steps and procedures used earlier.
• I am currently taking 1 Vitamin B Complex per day, although I occasionally skip a day.
• I use oral irrigation, warm-water only, about 5 mornings per week
• I brush my teeth twice daily, morning and night, half the time using Colgate Total, the other half ordinary fluoride toothpaste. My toothbrush is manual, i.e. not-electric.
• I gently brush my tongue with an old toothbrush with bristles cut to 50% original length. When I change to a new toothbrush, I trim the old toothbrush converting it to a tongue brush.
• I floss once daily

I have e-mailed Dr. Ken Yaegaki (Nippon Dental University), President of the International Society of Breath & Odor Research (ISBOR) and Dr. Christine Wu (University of Illinois at Chicago) Board member of ISBOR, seeking their knowledge of the relation between Vitamin B Complex and its affect on BB. Dr. Yaegaki, [essentially] said this area of study was not well-developed. Dr. Wu has not responded at this time. My motive was two-fold: seeking relevant published research references and potentially germinate a research proposal.

[nicc]

Thanks for the feedback,
the fact that even at morning the bad taste is gone is encouraging. I hope it stays like this, and I'll give it a try too.
I'll post updates

[stevo96]

I've been taking Mega B Vits (normal dose) for a week since reading this. I suffer from Type 1 BB which seems to have varying strengths to it, it normally gets worse through the day and I can tell this by the smell from my tongue if I rub my finger on it.... I too have noticed a reduction in the odour coming from the back of my tongue since taking the vits. We shall see how long it lasts.....

[deebo]

deebo
what % has the b complex helped reduce your bb? im currently taking b12 but im going to purchase the complex variety soon.

sorry for the late reply grl . not sure of the % though . I just feel less mucus and more saliva lately . I know that the Bcomplex seem to cut my anxiety and thats a huge plus since anxiety give me dry mouth and horseness . I can only figure that it helping in that way Rather than cutting bb directly. Stress is Way more powerful than most people think ,i'd say .

[searching]

Hello all,

In reading about Vitamin B deficiency, an accumulation of homocysteine can occur, from cysteine, a sulfur-containing, amino acid in edible protein. Vitamin B complex can return normal metabolization of homocysteine, seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_vitamins.

If homocysteine is allowed to accumulate it can be hydrolyzed to hydrogen sulfide and ammonia, by the reaction:
L-homocysteine + H2O = hydrogen sulfide + NH3 + 2-oxobutanoate, reference seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homocysteine_desulfhydrase.

Hydrogen sulfide is a major component of BB.

[mike987]

Hello all,

In reading about Vitamin B deficiency, an accumulation of homocysteine can occur, from cysteine, a sulfur-containing, amino acid in edible protein. Vitamin B complex can return normal metabolization of homocysteine, seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_vitamins.

If homocysteine is allowed to accumulate it can be hydrolyzed to hydrogen sulfide and ammonia, by the reaction:
L-homocysteine + H2O = hydrogen sulfide + NH3 + 2-oxobutanoate, reference seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homocysteine_desulfhydrase.

Hydrogen sulfide is a major component of BB.

Well I definitely have a Hydrogen Sulfide issue... a few years ago, my shit smelled literally like rotten eggs.. pure rotten eggs..

I still have a sewery almost rotten egg smell in my crap, as well as unrelenting fart breath, I've been noticing it's worse when my blood starts pumping with, exercise, or perhaps anxiety..

My tongue has been pretty white lately, maybe because a couple smell cavities were filled, but fartbreath BB and sewer shit still persist..

Supposing we wanted to get that balance back do eradicate the build up of the sulfide related acid, how long would it take?

I've got the B vitamins but have only been taking 1 a day since I read the dangerous side effects of overdose..

[halitosisux]

Searching, I dont know whether there's any connection to the findings you've made, but Aydinmur mentioned in a previous post that when he wants to diagnose type 1 BB, he places the chemical cysteine on his patients tongue. If the smell worsens then it rules out the other types of BB and concludes that the odour is from the bacterial activity on the tongue. I may be slightly wrong about the exact details there, but I know it was something to do with cysteine. So maybe this is how B vitamin deficiency could lead to bacterial overactivity?

[searching]

For several weeks thus far, above-average doses of Vitamin B complex have been beneficial for my BB and skin condition. I am taking the B complex as I’m uncertain of which individual B vitamin(s) have been deficient in my system. It's also been reported that the complex works synergistically.

A research study, linked here, has observed the affect of H. pylori colonization on Vitamin B12 [mal]absorption. I haven’t been tested, nor treated, for H. pylori; however, it has been associated with BB.

[mike987]

searching, have you experienced any head aches or any other symptoms from the vitamin B?

I rarely, if never, have head aches, but have been taking a regular course (one a day) of vitamin B complex and have noticed some aches in my skull.. Maybe it's because I'm partly expecting it since I'm aware of the overdose symptoms, but I'm a little afraid to do 2 or more pills a day.

Have you felt any side effects?

Does your BB continue to improve or has it plateaued?

Also, do you suspect that a vitamin B deficiency could be responsible for long term BB? What I mean is, do you think being deficient in a B vitamin is enough to start a chain reaction of BB that snowballs into a chronic condition, the likes of which we suffer? Do you think putting that vitamin back into your body will increasingly heal your body back to healthy condition?

I don't expect full answers here, just curious to your detailed thoughts..

[searching]

searching, have you experienced any head aches or any other symptoms from the vitamin B?
Have you felt any side effects?

mike987,

No headaches. I have had some joint aches. This may be related to above-average doses of Vitamin B complex.

Does your BB continue to improve or has it plateaued?

It has plateaued to a point where I am satisfied with the result.

Also, do you suspect that a vitamin B deficiency could be responsible for long term BB? What I mean is, do you think being deficient in a B vitamin is enough to start a chain reaction of BB that snowballs into a chronic condition, the likes of which we suffer? Do you think putting that vitamin back into your body will increasingly heal your body back to healthy condition?

Yes, at this time that is my speculation.

Speculating further, it appears the Vitamin B complex intake has provided my system with the components needed for more-normal metabolism. Perhaps my system was unable to properly use all nutrients; and, the excess anaerobically putrified in the gut and mouth and on the skin. Lately, hydrogen sulfide and other volatile sulfur compounds seem absent in stools and flatus. Skin rashes and dandruff (Malassezia yeasts) have cleared.

The presence of sufficient B complex, formerly missing, has reversibly-changed my ecology. The excess nutrients, formerly available to the microorganisms in my mouth/gums/tongue and gut, and on my skin, have decreased in concentration, and the microbial cultures have changed and/or decreased in species and/or population. In addition, it may be that immunoglobulin production has risen to sufficient level with Vitamin B complex.

Prior to Vitamin B complex use, my efforts have been aimed at managing BB through scrupulous oral hygiene habits, purity of diet, and chemical/antimicrobial/medicinal treatment of anaerobes. The method to eliminate BB is/was unknown. The use of B complex may be constructively-affecting the BB cause versus managing the symptoms.

It has only been one month, therefore too early to claim that I’ve found my answer. However, there has been an order-of-magnitude improvement in my condition. I will be completely satisfied if my condition stabilizes, yet improves no further.

[mike987]

Well that's fantastic that it's helped.

I've been taking 1 a day.. How many did you say you started taking before you noticed an effect?

I'm sure you've mentioned it countless times, but I'm wondering if we share similar symptoms. Could you share them with me again?


My BB smells like sewer, farts, or diarrhea gas at its worse.

Usually my tongue is white in almost a patchy kind of way, but in the last couple weeks (could be after I had a couple cavities filled) it's stayed CLEARER (edit), longer... I also think a new kind of mouthwash (nothing special) helps to keep it clearer, longer... However, even when my tongue was completely clear, I've gotten definite reactions and think they tongue coating is unrelated to the state of my breath.

I have digestion issues, but couldn't figure out the problems after going to a gastroenterologist. I cut gluten out of my diet and it certainly makes digestion easier for me, but I'm not so sure I have an allergy to gluten as I still experience digestion problems, but I'm sure it's helped that problem anyway.

There's a small bit of eczema on my finger that I've been aware of since highschool that occasionally flares up, without reason.. Fungal Defense pills, while taking them, kept it from showing up for while.

I have sinus congestion and allergies all year round. As well as PND.
Allergy meds help with that, but it's still there.

I'm usually feeling down emotionally, and get tired easily.. Fatigue and brain fog is typical. I guess overall I usually feel drained.


Does this sound like you? Think I should up the dosage?

[Jimi Stein]

you can go really high vith vitamins, people take massive doses of vitamin c and also vit b

i suggest pop at least 10 pills per session

better then antibiotics for sure

[hali_grl]

i just wanted to contribute this info from the bo forum in curezone i will be adding this to my protocol as well http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1851250#i

I reviewed 37 cases of cures both full and partial. Out of all the cases reviewed 12 either specifically mentioned the use of B-complex vitamins or the use of multivitamins. That is a significant portion. We will assume that the multivitamins mentioned contain B-complex vitamins. This assumption can be safely made for two reasons:

1) Both of the multivitamins specifically mentioned, contain the full suit of B-complex vitamin.*

2) A review of 5 top selling multivitamins showed that they all contained the full suite of B-complex vitamins. ( http://bit.ly/pKxxWw )

[searching]

I've been taking 1 a day. How many did you say you started taking before you noticed an effect?

mike987,

I took four (4) tablets daily for about seven to ten days. I noticed the difference within the first week, beginning with the clearing of skin abnormalities followed by a decrease in BB.

I'm sure you've mentioned it countless times, but I'm wondering if we share similar symptoms. Could you share them with me again?

I had fecal, tonsil-stone type BB that was managed with tooth brushing and oral irrigation; however, it seemed that some component(s), perhaps unused nutrients, were continually entering my mouth, through saliva or bloodstream, feeding opportunistic anaerobes. I had dermatitis on my scalp and axillary areas, that may have been psoriasis or eczema; however, the diagnosis was never specific. Instead the doctors prescribed, for decades, a topical steroidal anti-inflammatory. I used the medication, as needed, during flare ups. In the past I had geographic tongue, i.e. patches of uneven discoloration, which the physicians [also] attributed to psoriasis. The tongue condition cleared after I suspended use of harsh mouthwashes.

I indeed am/was fatigued much of the time; however, I attribute this to poor sleep. It may be due to other causes, I’m not sure.

Do [my symptoms] sound like you? Think I should up the dosage?

Some, not all, of your symptoms are similar to mine. I’m not a physician; therefore, I’m not qualified to recommend above-average doses of B complex.

It's evident that the conclusion some dental professionals have, that our tongues/gums/teeth are at fault, deserves reconsideration. I’m referring to those with chronic BB and excellent dentation. Perhaps the odor produced from our tongues/gums is a secondary phenomenon, not a primary one. It is possible that excess/unused nutrients, available to the anaerobes on the tongue/gums, are continuously delivered topically by saliva, or from the bloodstream within the tongue/gums, to the tongue/gums surface, feeding opportunistic microbes.

If we slow, or ideally stop, the abnormally-high, food-source, entrance rate, the anaerobic population will return to normal levels, producing normal volatile species at normal concentrations. At the moment, I believe (for me) the abnormality is systemic, not just local to my mouth. Until now, my body couldn't extract/exhaust nutrient potential so excesses accumulated, leading to anaerobic digestion in mouth and gut and on skin.

At the moment this is still [only] a theory. I am observing my condition, trying to qualify the treatments that work and disqualifying the treatments that do not.