hypothroidism, hormonal imbalance, metabolic disorder = bb?

[seanlee1980]

Looking at the post about low-carb diet causing bad breath, I am wondering if there are connections between hormone imbalance, hypothyroidism and metabolic disorder. Here's an interesting note from Wikipedia's page about hypothyroidism:
Basically, it's a chain effect. If you have hypothroidism, you have hormonal imbalance, metabolic disorder (chronic cortisol elevation which aids in fat, protein, carbohydrate metabolism).

"Stress is known to be a significant contributor to thyroid dysfunction: this can be environmental stress as well as lesser-considered homeostatic stress such as fluctuating blood sugar levels and immune problems. Moreover, adrenal stress's effect on thyroid function can be indirect, through its effects on blood sugar levels (dysglycemia),[29][30] but can also have more direct effects. Stress can cause hypothyroidism or reduced thyroid functioning through disrupting the HPA axis which down-regulates thyroid function,[31] reducing the conversion of T4 to T3,[32] weakening the immune system thus promoting autoimmunity,[33] causing thyroid hormone resistance,[34] and resulting in hormonal imbalances:[35] indeed, excess estrogen in the blood caused by chronic cortisol elevations (which reduce the liver's ability to clear excess estrogen[36]), can result in hypothyroid symptoms by decreasing levels of active T3.[37] Stress also affects thyroid functioning through the sympathetic nervous system.[38] Refugees from East Germany in a 1994 study who experienced chronic stress were found to have a very high rate of hypothyroidism or subclinical hypothyroidism, although not all refugees displayed clinical or behavioral symptoms associated with this reduced thyroid functioning.[39] TSH levels correlate positively with physiological stress."

[jen]

I have been diagnosed with hypothyroidism today. I doubt that it has an effect on my breath, but one can always hope that things will improve! The meds may take ages to work, apparently, but if bb is reduced at any time, I will update.

[gymrat1]

Hello Jen, seanlee1980 and everybody

I have been suffering with severe bad breath and Hypothyroid symptoms for many years. It got to the point where I couldn't even get out of bed in the morning with aches and pains all over my body, extreme hair loss and countless other symptoms. Blood tests always showed my thyroid levels were within range but sometime TSH a little high. Despite the extreme symptoms doctors would not treat me. Several weeks ago I decided to self-treat - I was so desperate. I did not expect the treatment to have any affect on my bad breath but after a few days of taking the medication I was surprised that my bb started to subside. I would wake in the morning with fresh breath and was even able to talk to someone face to face. It was the first symptom to be affected by the treatment. After 2 weeks other symptoms started to improve. Unfortunately, I only bought the lowest of the thyroid treatment and they didn't last very long as I was increasing the dose. I had problems ordering more and have been without the tablets for 2 weeks now and, yes, within that time my bb returned. I am due to receive more in a few days and I will post my progress in a couple of weeks. I held off posting on this site because I was not sure if it was just my imagination that it was happening or it was real and I wanted to be 100 percent sure before people would rush out and buy the tabs.
Jen, I really hope you notice a difference in your bb, but give it a week to work.
I will update in a few weeks with more info

[girlie girl]

gymrat1,

What are you taking to help with your thyroid? I have many symptoms as you and have suspected that my thyroid is out of whack. I have had tests done, but mine were all close to normal. I have PCO and that is a hormone imbalance and all hormones are linked and if one fails the others tend to become abnormal also. I am taking DIM to help with my PCO issues, but I am still have many of the hypothyroid symptoms. Any help would be great. Thanks!

[Tylan456]

Looking at the post about low-carb diet causing bad breath, I am wondering if there are connections between hormone imbalance, hypothyroidism and metabolic disorder. Here's an interesting note from Wikipedia's page about hypothyroidism:
Basically, it's a chain effect. If you have hypothroidism, you have hormonal imbalance, metabolic disorder (chronic cortisol elevation which aids in fat, protein, carbohydrate metabolism).

"Stress is known to be a significant contributor to thyroid dysfunction: this can be environmental stress as well as lesser-considered homeostatic stress such as fluctuating blood sugar levels and immune problems. Moreover, adrenal stress's effect on thyroid function can be indirect, through its effects on blood sugar levels (dysglycemia),[29][30] but can also have more direct effects. Stress can cause hypothyroidism or reduced thyroid functioning through disrupting the HPA axis which down-regulates thyroid function,[31] reducing the conversion of T4 to T3,[32] weakening the immune system thus promoting autoimmunity,[33] causing thyroid hormone resistance,[34] and resulting in hormonal imbalances:[35] indeed, excess estrogen in the blood caused by chronic cortisol elevations (which reduce the liver's ability to clear excess estrogen[36]), can result in hypothyroid symptoms by decreasing levels of active T3.[37] Stress also affects thyroid functioning through the sympathetic nervous system.[38] Refugees from East Germany in a 1994 study who experienced chronic stress were found to have a very high rate of hypothyroidism or subclinical hypothyroidism, although not all refugees displayed clinical or behavioral symptoms associated with this reduced thyroid functioning.[39] TSH levels correlate positively with physiological stress."

You talked about your symptoms, but didn't mention which product you were taking for treating your thyroid. What is the name of the product?

[Archimonde]

I wanted to be 100 percent sure before people would rush out and buy the tabs.

Tell us the name of the tablets please, some of us don't mind experimenting at all, it's better than doing nothing.

[jen]

Hi, gymrat, thanks for your reply. I was (pleasantly) surprised to read that thyroid meds worked for your bb, because I tried to google hypothyroidism and bb and didn't find anything much. I have also suffered from aches and pains and stiffness for some years and doctors simply told me it's probably fibromyalgia. I also had much difficulty losing weight, my voice became hoarse, I developed very dry skin, and I constantly feel tired and depressed. All these symptoms finally convinced a dr to do proper tests. (I was tested for thyroid about 3-4 years ago and the dr also told me it was normal. If you are a borderline case they just tell you it's normal.)

To everybody who enquired, she prescribed euthyrox 25mcg - 1 per day. I think it is also a low dosis, because I read about someone who uses a lot more. I'm supposed to get another blood test after 6 weeks to see whether the dosis is right for me. Apparently it is a trial and error process.

Just research any product that you want to try, because there are people with certain conditions who aren't supposed to use these meds.

I heard that medication can sometimes take really long to work, but it sounds as though yours worked quite fast, gymrat. I do hope mine will work, for relief of all my symptoms, but also for bb. Please keep us updated.

[Archimonde]

Jen, maybe Gymrat took a different med? I hope he will reply and tell us.

[gymrat1]

Hi everyone
I fully understand what you mean about experimenting, I did exactly the same with fluconazole (Diflucan) for candidiasis infection purely as an elimination process. It didn’t help my bb but it did solve other long-standing problems!
In all of the material I have read on Hypothyroidism not one advocates self-treatment which was why I started off on a very low dose. I bought Nature-Thyroid ¼ grain (16.25 mg) made by RLC LABS. They are dessicated thyroid tablets and contain T4 and T3 hormone. Doctors apparently only prescribe T4. I made the choice based on all the information I read and other people’s comments. I began with 2 tablets for a couple of days then gradually increased every couple of days.
I would highly recommend this website http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/
It contains lots of useful information on different types of thyroid medication and who makes them but sadly nothing on the link between hypothyroidism and bad breath. I bought mine from a company that supplies without a prescription and found it through ‘Google’.
I have been suffering from foul breath for over 25 years, I’m now 46. For most of those 25 years I was convinced I had a thyroid problem, not because of the BB but due to other symptoms such as:
hair loss on head and outer eyebrows
low ferritin levels (this showed up on every blood test I had)
very dry skin especially on legs
hands and neck looking creppy and leathery
very dry and brittle hair and nails
weight gain despite exercising most days
constipation
memory loss/forgetfulness/lack of concentration
joint and muscle pain after a short workout, or activity
insomnia
hoarse voice / mucus at back of throat
mild depression and dreading having to face the world each day, not wanting to socialise
extreme day-time tiredness, but not every day
a goiter that at times makes swallowing difficult and makes neck look fat
numbness and pins and needles in hand and feet
cold hands and feet, and intolerant of cold
soles of feet very painful to walk on especially first thing in the morning
very heavy periods within the last 5 years
pain under right rib – feels as though liver is swelling, with pain travelling up my back
frequent bladder infections – have become more frequent over the last 3 years
skin tenderness
restless legs

I was convinced like many people with a few dental problems that the smell was coming from my teeth. My dentist smelled my breath and said to me ‘that smell is not coming from your teeth’. A periodontist said the same. I thought they were fobbing me off – how could this foul smell be coming from anywhere else, it is so ‘local’. It would reappear 10 – 15 mins after brushing, it was on my floss, I could smell it out of my nose, it was at the back of my throat, I felt it was in my saliva and coming from my lungs. I had a few dental issues and was convinced it was coming from my teeth because most of the time it smelled like something rotting, like a badly infected tooth. I’ve also had the cheesy/smelly sock smell and any other foul odour I smelled would somehow linger on my breath for ages.
After 5 days of taking the thyroid medication the taste in my mouth started to disappear. I couldn’t believe that I was waking up with a fresh taste in my mouth and was even fresher after I brushed my teeth. The bad taste and smell that would appear 10mins after I brushed was gone, even my floss didn’t smell. I realised then that the issues I have with my teeth – a gum infection in one small area and an ill-fitting crown in another were not so bad that they would cause that awful smell. But somehow I still thought no this can’t be right, I must be imagining it. Then I ran out of the tablets and my bb came back within a week.
I’ve never really studied the link between bb and the metabolism because a couple of doctors told me that if my bb was related to a dysfunctional metabolism I would have other serious health problems. I suppose I never thought of the above list of symptoms as being ‘serious’ apart from the pain under my right rib for which I had 2 scans and got the all clear both times. However, very recently I heard a story about someone who was very ill and suffering with liver/gallbladder problems. Apparently the sick woman’s breath was described as smelling like ‘pooh’. I also read that the thyroid hormone is linked to the gallbladder, it signals the gallbladder to release bile into the small intestine when we eat. So perhaps the lack of thyroid hormone is causing the gallbladder and liver to retain bile (which consists of all the junk that the blood picks up during its journey throughout our body) and maybe this stagnation is somehow causing the smell (and the pain under my right ribcage?). This is just my ‘ignorant’ theory, but I would appreciate any comments from qualified people.
I honestly hope that most of you can make the link between hypothyroid symptoms and bad breath. I know how debilitating this problem can be (and how much it has ruined every aspect of my life), but more importantly how intolerant and cruel the human race can be towards each other.
I will post an update again when I start my next batch of tablets.
Until then, remain hopeful and keep your spirits high!!

[jen]

I have been suffering from foul breath for over 25 years, I’m now 46. For most of those 25 years I was convinced I had a thyroid problem, not because of the BB but due to other symptoms such as:
hair loss on head and outer eyebrows
low ferritin levels (this showed up on every blood test I had)
very dry skin especially on legs
hands and neck looking creppy and leathery
very dry and brittle hair and nails
weight gain despite exercising most days
constipation
memory loss/forgetfulness/lack of concentration
joint and muscle pain after a short workout, or activity
insomnia
hoarse voice / mucus at back of throat
mild depression and dreading having to face the world each day, not wanting to socialise
extreme day-time tiredness, but not every day
a goiter that at times makes swallowing difficult and makes neck look fat
numbness and pins and needles in hand and feet
cold hands and feet, and intolerant of cold
soles of feet very painful to walk on especially first thing in the morning
very heavy periods within the last 5 years
pain under right rib – feels as though liver is swelling, with pain travelling up my back
frequent bladder infections – have become more frequent over the last 3 years
skin tenderness
restless legs

I’ve never really studied the link between bb and the metabolism because a couple of doctors told me that if my bb was related to a dysfunctional metabolism I would have other serious health problems. I suppose I never thought of the above list of symptoms as being ‘serious’ apart from the pain under my right rib for which I had 2 scans and got the all clear both times. However, very recently I heard a story about someone who was very ill and suffering with liver/gallbladder problems. Apparently the sick woman’s breath was described as smelling like ‘pooh’. I also read that the thyroid hormone is linked to the gallbladder, it signals the gallbladder to release bile into the small intestine when we eat. So perhaps the lack of thyroid hormone is causing the gallbladder and liver to retain bile (which consists of all the junk that the blood picks up during its journey throughout our body) and maybe this stagnation is somehow causing the smell (and the pain under my right ribcage?).

Gymrat, I find your post very valuable. You mention problems that I didn't associate with thyroid, but may be somehow related - which are exactly what I experience: skin tenderness, pain under right ribcage, severe lower backpain, restless legs and bladder issues (infections, frequency, urinary retention). I've had a scan on Tuesday, which showed that liver, gallbladder, bladder and kidneys are normal. Thanks for the info. I'm going to do further research about the meds and the symptoms.

I must say that I've had bb since the age of 11 and the only symptoms that I've experienced for so long is cold hands and feet and low mood, as well as low energy. Most of the other symptoms only appeared in the last 10 years, so it is possible that my bb has nothing to do with my thyroid. However, on the other hand,, my bb did get much worse over the last 10 years.

The only thing I can do is to give the meds time to work and maybe increase the dosage and see what happens.

[Archimonde]

Gymrat, I find your post very valuable.

I did too, thank you very much.

My 2 worst symptoms, other than BB, are UTI and insomnia. Those 2 symptoms appeared many years after BB started so I can't be sure they are related to BB or not. I also suffer from cold hand and feet but i can live with that.

I gotta admit I never got my thyroid checked since I never heard of BB being a symptom of hypothyroid. Anyway, tomorrow i will check locally if i can find over-the-counter med for hypothyroid.

[gymrat1]

Hello Archimonde and jen, thank you for your replies.

Archimonde - did you manage to buy any over-the-counter thyroid medication? I did read that it is possible but they will be very mild in comparison to the prescription ones. Good luck and please let us know how you get on.

jen, the first lot of tablets I bought were 16.25mg, although the amount of T4 is 9.5mcg and T3 is 2.25mcg the remainder is made up of T1, T2 hormones, calcium and magnesium. I started off with 2 tablets per day and increased until I was taking 6 per day. Perhaps the 25mcg you have been prescribed is not such a low dose of hormone to start off with. My next lot are 76 mcg T4, 18 mcg T3 (known as 2 grain, 130mg). I'm still waiting for them to arrive and hoping it won't be too long as the pressure under right ribcage has become extremely uncomfortable.

Another few symptoms I remembered (because they have started happening again) are: fluid retention, heartburn/indigestion, painful and itchy ears, lower back ache (like you, jen) and a strange banging sensation inside my head. I had the latter investigated with a brain scan 3 years ago but all was ok. I also had neurological tests which were also ok. For the few weeks that I was taking the thyroid medication I had none of these symptoms and even the fluid retention was subsiding.

jen, you mentioned that your bb started when you were 11 years old. I remember when I was about 13 years old I developed a really strange body odour, mostly a fishy smell but sometimes a lot worse. It wasn't a hygiene problem because I bathed every day but I couldn't get rid of it. My breath didn't smell at that time because I'm sure the other children would have said something, however, comments were made about the 'fishy smell'. I believe some other people on the forum said their bb problem started around puberty age (when hormones are rushing around our bodies!). Perhaps the bb and body odour at puberty are indications that the hormones and metabolism are not functioning properly. Like seanlee1980 commented above 'I am wondering if there are connections between hormone imbalance, hypothyroidism and metabolic disorder'. I am becoming more convinced that for me personally this is the key.

I'll certainly post an update with results (good or bad).

[halitosisux]

gymrat and Jen, do either of you suffer from a dry mouth?

[Lavender]

I have been recently diagnosed with hypothyroidism (clinical) and my tsh levels are slightly higher (5.0mIU/L compared to normal 0.30-4.0). About 6 months back I have had my gallbladder removed as it function decreased. And I have been a chronic bb sufferer with a coated white tongue. And all this while I thought Candida was the culprit.

But I am still not convinced that thyroid is the problem or cause of bb as this is a recent problem (in my case) compared to BB which I have had from childhood. I had my thyroid checked about 4 years back and it was normal although I still had chronic bb.

[jen]

gymrat and Jen, do either of you suffer from a dry mouth?

HS, I suffer from very dry mouth and throat, for many years now. I got used to it and only realized how dry it was when antibiotics - for a very brief period of time - restored my normal saliva flow. It felt great and my breath felt so much fresher.

I think sinus allergy causes it for me. Don't know whether thyroid can cause it. I do feel very dehydrated at the moment, dry skin, very dry mouth although I drink lots of water. I also have gum in my mouth all the time, which is supposed to hydrate your mouth, but I've been wondering if it can contribute to the dry mouth. If I could just get my saliva back. It was a wonderful feeling.