Null hypothesis: "Candida causes Halitosis"

[dolittle]

Here is my null hypothesis that I constructed for the "Candida causes halitosis hypothesis". Please feel free to add the argument for Candida, but I won't reply unless you cite reliable scientific sources.

There is a general belief among the public that Candida spp. may be a cause of halitosis, or even body odor, genital odor or rectal malodor. There is no single published scientific paper that has proven Candida albicans or other yeasts as a cause of oral malodor or extraoral halitosis. [24] Indeed, one paper reported low Candida albicans carriage rates in halitosis patients. [21] Rather than putrefaction of sulfur containing amino acids by gram negative bacteria, releasing VSC as the cause of malodor, yeast ferments carbohydrates to produce ethanol, which has an odor character described as strong alcoholic, ethereal or medical. [25] Whether high carriage rates of Candida spp. or even oral candidiasis would produce a great enough concentration of ethanol to create a malodor detectable by others is unknown. Furthermore, the ability of volatiles to be liberated in vivo is important, and this can be impacted by pH of the solution (e.g. saliva) and the salivary flow rate. These two factors, the concentration, and the in vivo behaviour key factor that enables volatiles to be detected by others and hence create the halitosis symptom. This is analogous to how various volatiles apart from VSC were disporved to be the main contributors to halitosis, since they were either not in great enough concentration, or unable to be liberated from solution at physiological pH.
The claim that Candida is a cause of halitosis and body odor is widely exhorted by the "Candida industry", along with claims of a "systemic candidiasis syndrome" which is a medically unrecognized condition. These claims fall within the realms of alternative medicine, as they are pseudoscientific and entirely without evidence. In 1990, alternative health vendor Nature's Way signed an FTC consent agreement not to misrepresent in advertising any self-diagnostic test concerning yeast conditions or to make any unsubstantiated representation concerning any food or supplement's ability to control yeast conditions, with a fine of $30,000 payable to the National Institutes of Health for research in genuine candidiasis. [26]
There is a feasible indirect, but not causative link between candidiasis and halitosis. Oral candidiasis frequently develops where there is xerostomia (dry mouth). Decreased salivary flow rates will redcue both the antimicrobial and mechanical cleansing action of saliva, resulting in increased growth of oral bacterial spp. in addition to yeast spp. The increased bacterial load may then lead to increased VSC levels and hence halitosis. Thus, halitosis and Candida carriage may occur together, as a result of dry mouth, but Candida does not cause malodor.
The so called "systemic candidiasis syndrome", among its vast range of claimed symptoms, is described as giving a halitosis and body odor that is musty, "mousy" or "yeasty". These odor descriptions are identical to the range of odors that dimethyl sulfide is reported to produce in vivo. A musty or "mousy" halitosis is reported to be a sympotom of the medically recognized conditions resulting in dimethylsulfidemia, or even atypical presentation of trimethylaminuria (patients with Ttrimethylaminuria often present with a range of odors, with or without fish odor).

[/quote]

[dolittle]

sorry, here are the refs:

21^ a b Ben-Aryeh, H; Horowitz, G; Nir, D; Laufer, D (1998 Jan-Feb). "Halitosis: an interdisciplinary approach.". American journal of otolaryngology 19 (1): 8-11. PMID 9470944.
24^ "PubMed search results with keywords "halitosis" and "candida"". PubMed.gov. Retrieved 14 August 2012. Available http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term ... 0halitosis
25^ "Ethanol; organoleptics". The good scents company. Retrieved 14 August 2012. available http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1000511.html
26^ Jarvis, William T.. ""Candidiasis hypersensitivity"". National Council Against Health Fraud. Retrieved 14 August 2012. available http://www.ncahf.org/articles/c-d/candida.html

[dolittle]

One more thing:

Indeed, one paper reported low Candida albicans carriage rates in halitosis patients. [21]

(Candida is oral commensal organism in about 40% of the general population)

[aues]

See also

Aydin Murat wrote:

I think Candida diet may be hoax.
None of diet can prevent yeasts in any flora.
- Murat

[halitosisux]

Very good. But I wonder why lufenuron has cured or improved BB for some members?

Maybe it's due to hidden/undiagnosed candidiasis or other yeast "infections" of the esophagus or sinuses, that have improved or cleared up.

[HigherThoughts]

Yea my own theory is that candida overgrowth is causing my halitosis. Mine literally happened overnight. As a matter of fact I was awake when my problem started and hasn't gone away since.

At that time, I know my immunity was low from lack of sleep for several days and also I put a very large strain on my body. I also inhaled a lot of dust that could have put even more strain on myself. Also had a lack of hydration during that time. That's when I suddenly had a bad taste in the back of my throat late that night and since then my life has never been the same.

My last hope is to try fluconazole so I am waiting for my medicine to arrive. There is a lot of misinformation online so it is hard to tell what I should believe. A lot of people try to follow the Candida diet, which is basically starving yourself of a lot of nutrition. I read somewhere it is not good completely starve out the candida because they go into an armored state which makes them harder to remove. I tried using natural antifungal remedies such as black walnut and wormwood complex, coconut oil, and oil of oregano. It may have helped a little, but the effects don't seem to be drastic.

The problem with fluconazole is that there is a 3% chance for the yeast to be resistant to the drug. I have already taken it once before, but only for a week, which I believe was not long enough. That is why my problem did not go away. But now I am scared that I have stronger drug resistant yeast because I already took it once. It could be more difficult to remove.

[hali_grl]

I originally thought candida was the cause of my bb but antibiotics always cured me of bb so now I'm not sure for me it is the cause. But I do believe I have a dybosis from not enough good bacteria or too many bad bacteria along with the candida. I believe too many negative organisms including candida makes it harder for good organisms to thrive. I def now know for sure that candida was a problem for me thanks to lufenuron bc it did help me with my allergies and other issues I noticed my saliva was not as thick either after taking it, candida is def real.

[dolittle]

Very good. But I wonder why lufenuron has cured or improved BB for some members?

Maybe it's due to hidden/undiagnosed candidiasis or other yeast "infections" of the esophagus or sinuses, that have improved or cleared up.

Firstly, I don't know what lufenuron is... (a brand name for some antifungal?)

If it is an antifungal, what is the mechanism of action? is it antimicrobial rather than antifungal alone? e.g. an oxidizing agent that will also be bacteriacidal, and hence reduce the bacteria producing VSC

You are also ignoring my point that yeast does not release VSCs (it realeases ethanol, which even if in high enough concentration and if it is able to b liberated from solution at physiological pH...it is arguable that the odor of ethanol is not even unpleasant), which are know to be the main contributors to the odor of halitosis, whether intra or extra oral.

When you are saying some are finding benefit with this product...this the anecdotal evidence, the lowest level of evidence. To prove this with a study consisting of one group taking lufenuron and another taking a sham (placebo). This would show if there is a statistically significant difference between the control arm and the lufenuron arm, and whether in fact the improvement is similar in both groups, pointing to the placebo affect.

[dolittle]

Yea my own theory is that candida overgrowth is causing my halitosis. Mine literally happened overnight. As a matter of fact I was awake when my problem started and hasn't gone away since.

Not to be judgmental, but that history does sound a bit strange...

Please read my arguments above, especially the fact that about 40% of people have candida as a harmless commensal organism in their mouth, and it causes no symptoms whatsoever. In fact it could be seen as beenficial, as it is one of the many different species of bacteria and yeast that are in balance with each other and with the immune system - a stable ecology that prevents the overgrowth of any individual species to become pathogenic. These balanced species also make it harder for foreign invaders to grow in the mouth, as they are outcompeted by the already established community. Hence candidiasis after antibiotics, antibiotic associated collitis etc etc.

Candida is a "whimp" as an invective pathogen. It usually only overgrows and causes symptoms when the immune system is severely damaged, (e.g. advanced AIDS, immunosuppression following organ transplantation, etc etc), or in older people who leave their false teeth in indefinitely without cleaninig them. Candidiasis always gives obvious symptoms like redness, soreness, thick white patches, it is not an "invisible menace"

I have studied oral candidiasis in the past in some detail, and never did i find a reference to Halitosis being a symptom of Candidiasis.

Please stop buying all this Candida nonsense- the purveyors of this information might believe they are doing right by people, but essentially i think it is all pseudoscience, i.e. without any evidence at all...http://www.ncahf.org/articles/c-d/candida.html

[dolittle]

I originally thought candida was the cause of my bb but antibiotics always cured me of bb so now I'm not sure for me it is the cause. But I do believe I have a dybosis from not enough good bacteria or too many bad bacteria along with the candida. I believe too many negative organisms including candida makes it harder for good organisms to thrive. I def now know for sure that candida was a problem for me thanks to lufenuron bc it did help me with my allergies and other issues I noticed my saliva was not as thick either after taking it, candida is def real.

I know I am arguing against myself here, but if that antibiotic was metronidazole (aka flagyl...frequently prescribed by clueless dentists for halitosis), then metro also has antifungal action. Hence -azole suffix like fluconazole. Metronidazole was originally marketed as a antifungal, but they soon realized it also had antibacterial action.

It is not a case of Candida being a bad organism- like i said above, it is part of the normal commensal flora in about 40% of people, almost 100% of i bet have no symptoms related to candida at all

I'm not saying Candida is not real, it causes real medical infections (the candidiases), but these have recognizable symptoms (i.e. you would know if you had one of these infections. here are some wiki articles (not mine) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candida_(fungus) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_candidiasis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candidiasis )
and there is no evidence, even anecdotal evidence that Candida causes halitosis, whether intra or extra oral. As i mention above, there is even one paper reporting lowered candida carriage rates in halitosis patients....

[HigherThoughts]

Yes I know that everyone has candida in their bodies and it's normally not a problem until it gets out of balance. When I first saw the ENT he found white patches in the back of my throat. He didn't test for it but he said it looks like yeast overgrowth and that's why I was prescribed fluconazole that time.

Although i didn't get soreness or redness, I did get a white coating on my tongue. Also I have had a lot of white mucus in my throat and sinuses which is an indicator of fungal infection. Also been feeling pressures in my sinus so there is a high chance of some sort of fungal infection in my body.

I suppose it may not be the candida that's directly causing my bad breath, but I believe it has some relation to whatever is causing my bad breath.

Not to be judgmental, but that history does sound a bit strange...

Please read my arguments above, especially the fact that about 40% of people have candida as a harmless commensal organism in their mouth, and it causes no symptoms whatsoever. In fact it could be seen as beenficial, as it is one of the many different species of bacteria and yeast that are in balance with each other and with the immune system - a stable ecology that prevents the overgrowth of any individual species to become pathogenic. These balanced species also make it harder for foreign invaders to grow in the mouth, as they are outcompeted by the already established community. Hence candidiasis after antibiotics, antibiotic associated collitis etc etc.

Candida is a "whimp" as an invective pathogen. It usually only overgrows and causes symptoms when the immune system is severely damaged, (e.g. advanced AIDS, immunosuppression following organ transplantation, etc etc), or in older people who leave their false teeth in indefinitely without cleaninig them. Candidiasis always gives obvious symptoms like redness, soreness, thick white patches, it is not an "invisible menace"

I have studied oral candidiasis in the past in some detail, and never did i find a reference to Halitosis being a symptom of Candidiasis.

Please stop buying all this Candida nonsense- the purveyors of this information might believe they are doing right by people, but essentially i think it is all pseudoscience, i.e. without any evidence at all...http://www.ncahf.org/articles/c-d/candida.html

[halitosisux]

dolittle,

Lufenuron:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufenuron

Lots of people tried it and some say it cured their bad breath and many say it gave them improvements - less tongue coating, etc.

It might have some antibacterial properties too. It could also have some kind of indirect effect on bacteria, resulting in less bad breath.

Yes yeast does not release VSCs, but Aydinmur has told us that yeast infections can cause their own odour. This would be especially true where yeast infection causes tissue damage resulting in secondary bacterial infections etc. Is this not what happens in chronic fungal sinusitis for example?

Yes, it would be great if there were more people like you on here who could perhaps organise and invite people from this site to carry out the types of studies you describe, where new ideas and treatments show signs of real potential.

I agree with everything you've said about candida in this thread.

[aydinmur]

Because of both Candidial biofilm or tongue coating is whitish, people estimated a relationship between tongue coating and Candida may be present. This is the most plausible scenario.


Candida assimilates carbohidrates.
CO2, acides, alcohols are end products.

If Candida had exactly caused halitosis, then every AIDS patients, cortizol cured patients would have hard halitosis.

I can say with my personal experiences, Candida cultures Usually smel like cheese, not very bad.
On the other hand, Fusobacteria, and other anaerobes' cultures have bad odor, intolerable!.

I think, Candida species dont directly cause bad odor, but perhaps indirect mechanisms may operate.

-M

[hali_grl]

It was actually metronidazole that I had taken and it does make sense for it to have been used as a antifungal (I believe all antifungals have the suffix of 'azole'). I believe what Dr. Aydinmur says that it is not the candida itself but maybe the candida is not supporting a good homeostatis for beneficial bacteria if the good bacteria is too few or the bad is too many. That may explain why some aids and immuno-compromised patient don't have bb. From what I know candida ferments in the body. Just like fermented grapes or apples don't stink, but fermented cabbage does possibly because of Dimethyl sulfide. Which is said to be the cause of most blood bourne halitosis when in excess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylsulfidemia

Dimethylsulfidemia is a pathological sign, and can be defined as > 7 nM dimethyl sulfide in peripheral venous blood.[1] There are several known causes, but it is suggested that a newly identified metabolic condition is responsible for the majority of cases.[2] Furthermore, there is evidence that the majority of cases of extra-oral (outside the mouth) blood borne halitosis are caused by dimethylsulfidemia.[2][3][4] The mechanism of this relationship is thought to be related to the fact that dimethyl sulfide is subject to pulmonary excretion, and hence is transferred to the exhaled breath via gas exchange.

[dolittle]

Hi Halitosisux

thanks for link, there is nothing too detailed here about mechanism of action...nothing that hints that it might be bactericidal in addition, so I don't have any explanation (apart from placebo affect, which can be very marked). At least the page says it is a safe drug to use:

"It has no known toxic effects at any dosage on humans or other animals in the environment that do not depend on chitin, though the orally administered pills can sometimes cause an upset stomach with acid reflux."

I honestly think that candidiasis does not cause odor, there is no mention of this anywhere that I have found. If i ever come across a a paper exploring this link i will put the link up. Personally, I have not seen a great deal of patients with Candidiasis, maybe less than 10. I think they could have halitosis from the dry mouth which is allowing the VSC producing bacteria to overgrow in addition to the yeast, but I have no evidence that yeast causes malodor.

dolittle,

Lufenuron:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufenuron

Lots of people tried it and some say it cured their bad breath and many say it gave them improvements - less tongue coating, etc.

It might have some antibacterial properties too. It could also have some kind of indirect effect on bacteria, resulting in less bad breath.

Yes yeast does not release VSCs, but Aydinmur has told us that yeast infections can cause their own odour. This would be especially true where yeast infection causes tissue damage resulting in secondary bacterial infections etc. Is this not what happens in chronic fungal sinusitis for example?

Yes, it would be great if there were more people like you on here who could perhaps organise and invite people from this site to carry out the types of studies you describe, where new ideas and treatments show signs of real potential.

I agree with everything you've said about candida in this thread.