Chronic halitosis, Rhinitis, PND, bacterial imbalance

joeP · Post by **joeP** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:37 pm

@ruch, thanks. I still need to try xylitol and GSE with the nasal rinse and waterfloss.

Also still waiting for the lactoferrin to arrive.

@halitosisux, I'm quite sure the mouthwashes do harm over long term...nobody is supposed to take in so many chemicals into their mouths. However, right now, I need to focus on improving my condition as it has become much worse. In order to manage a few important things happening in my life right now...I need to get better within the next 2-3 weeks!

I've read the posts by malory and watched some videos too. I've been on a low choline diet most of the time that I've been having BB.
I'm following it more vigorously now...let's see if that shows improvement.

I can also start taking activated charcoal and charcoal biscuits (if they help).

However, how does the tongue get white as it does for me all the time these days with TMAU2 and why did it previously use to help for a few hours when I brushed and used mouthwashes?

I guess what it could be is that I have a white tongue due to other reasons such as my rhinitis/PND...but why is it more intense now at the same time as my breath having worsened?

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:29 pm

Joe, I wish we had more definite answers on these kinds of questions.

I was reading some interesting stuff like this:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21056644
If bacteria can really have such complex interations with our tissues, then anything is possible. Things are probably much more complex than we have ever imagined them to be. We even share parts of our DNA with that of certain species of bacteria.

Anyway, I tried asking Dr. Lachmann at a TMAU webinar, whether if TMA present in saliva or mucus could "feed" bacteria on the tongue and he said he didn't know, but that it was very unlikely because TMA is bacterial "waste". I can't think of any other way, if TMAU2 is involved, that it could be contributing to your whiter tongue, apart from you perhaps trying harder and harder to clean it, which only makes the white harder and harder to clean.

joeP · Post by **joeP** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:51 pm

Thanks halitosisux,

sounds discouraging. I was researching on oral microbiology, ecology and biofilms, trying to understand the different types of anerobic bacteria and their functions. I think we do not even have a designation for all of them, but they are to some extent useful aren't they?

Could it be that by trying to fight them in the mouth with mouthwashes etc, we eventually end up with type 3/4 halitosis as we weaken the first line of defense by doing so?

Btw, my saliva has a bit of a sweet smell.... I noticed. Although I understand that is not really an indicator of anything. Correct?

Still hoping to get some positive diagnosis from the blood and stool tests...

@Peace and Ruch, how is your routine working for you...?

@All,
General question, has anyone on this forum met Dr Aydin yet? Is he only available in Adana (Turkey) or does he travel to e.g. UK or western/central Europe too?

Also, has anyone been able to get a gas chromatography test done in the UK?

I'm thinking of getting a food intolerance test done as well. Any suggestions where and what to test for?

I'm also looking to get an air purifier for my home. Do they work against BB?

What is the consensus on the best toothpaste and mouthwash available OTC in the UK ?

Thanks a lot to all....I really appreciate the help.

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:29 pm

Sweet smell? I Wonder if there's some kind of blood sugar/diabetic situation occuring?

I guess you'll find out with your blood test results.

Peace · Post by **Peace** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:45 pm

Follow up on the lactoferrin+xylitol routine:
Started with sinus rinse using 250 mg lactoferrin and 2 table spoons xylitol in 1 cup and felt improvement. Did feel bad taste coming back during day at some point. Did some research on pubmed and found xylitol is used in clinical trials for biofilm as a 10% solution. This is roughly 4 teaspoons in 1 cup and have changed to that. I have also used this lactoferrin-xylitol mix as a nasal spray every 2-3 hrs and feel a further improvement. Crossing fingers!

joeP · Post by **joeP** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:08 pm

thanks Peace!

So far I've been using the xylitol with sodium chloride and sodium bicarbonate as a nasal rinse in the morning and night (before going to sleep).

Only very minor improvement so far.

I'm still waiting fo rthe lactoferrin to arrive.

My diet is absolutely crazy these days...I've never eaten this healthy ever....only green stuff and carrots and some potatoes and other vegies. Not sure how to explain this to my wife.

Also taking a lot of different pills/extracts...all stuff that helped people on this forum.

Using chlorhexidine and sodium bicarbonate and therabreath/smart mouth to brush and floss and rinse.

I'm thinking of getting hold of some pure zinc, sodium bicarbonate and chlorhexidine and adding them together to create my own mouth rinse.

Nothing really seems to be helping for two weeks now :-(

ikageorgian · Post by **ikageorgian** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:55 pm

I understand, leave the wisdom teeth alone than and start what I"ve suggested, do not listen to doctors they ain"t know s.... Just give it a try and you will see the relief.

ruch · Post by **ruch** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:24 pm

peace, you used lactoferrin and xylitol as a sinus rinse? does it work? does it sting?

i have only been using it orally.. ingesting lactoferrin capsules (sometimes i might open the capsule up and pour it on my tongue but i find it gets very sticky once mixed with your saliva) and xylitol i gargle and swish with and then swallow. if you ingest too much xylitol, it can apparently give you the runs so be careful. i only ingest 1 tbsp morning and 1 tbsp at night, mixed with some water. i also use it as a sinus rinse (1/2 tsp in my neti pot.. is that too little?). i do it morning and night. it really helps reduce the PND.

to those wanting to try this.. it doesn't work alone. i would suggest coupling it with good your usual oral hygiene routine and also using some sort of rinse. i find chlorhexidine works best, followed by zinc. chlorine dioxide rinses don't really help me.

i also use a hydrofloss machine with grapefruit seed extract to irrigate my gums and the tonsil flap that someone posted about on this forum (hard to do it without gagging though).

anyway, i find that all of these things together help a bit...

i just wish i could get rid of it once and for all though

i also bought some bentonite clay and psyllium husk powder and going to try P&B shakes (is this okay to do while also using xylitol and lactoferrin)?

i had a prescription tetracyline rinse work for me temporarily while i was using it for 2 weeks.. and am going to see if i can ge it again. perhaps antibiotics don't work for us because of the biofilm.. so if i am actively targeting the biofilm with lactoferrin and xylitol, perhaps there will be better luck next time?

lactoferrin has helped with reducing tongue coating which has also reduced my bb (but sometimes it comes back.. not sure why). the xylitol sinus rinse has helped with PND which has also reduced the bb.

i think ingesting it has helped with removing something from my system too, but not sure.. i seem to have more frequent bowel movements. going to try parasite cleanse with herbs soon as well.. and am having my amalgam dental fillings removed next week (and will also see my naturopath about a chelation protocol to remove any residual mercury from my system).. and also plan to go have my thyroid tested from my doc soon.

Brad123 · Post by **Brad123** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:58 pm

viewtopic.php?t=4654

Do the above to avoid your tongue forming keratin. This is why cats have stinky saliva when they groom themselves.

Peace · Post by **Peace** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:12 am

@ruch,

I have been trying the lactoferrin-xylitole sinus wash once in the morning together with nasal spray during the day for a couple of days and feel that there are results. For example, the taste of chewing gum is really fresh in my mouth at the end of the morning, I don't feel that there is some heavy stuff associated with it, if you know what I mean. So, so far it's been very good. If for some reason it comes back I will add amoxicillin for a few days to the wash and spray.
There is a slight burning sensation which may be due to the hypertonic xylitol (4 full teaspoons in 1 cup saline). As you know lactoferrin is normally found in nasal secretions so no worries there I don't think...
cheers

Peace · Post by **Peace** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:00 am

I made a mistake, it's 4 teaspoons xylitol in 6 oz saline.

joeP · Post by **joeP** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:26 pm

@Peace,

Thanks...I wonder if adding Lactoperoxidase somehow to the nasal and oral rinse with lactoferrin, xylitol, saline and sodium bicarbonate would be more effective.

Peace · Post by **Peace** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:41 pm

@joeP,

Lactoperoxidase should help, it is in a lot of vet products and some toothpastes but it seems to be hard to find on its own. You can order it from a company like Sigma, but I am hesitant to take research-purpose only products.

joeP · Post by **joeP** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:39 pm

@Peace, thanks for keeping us posted!! It really is good to see you are having progress. It would be good to know how you would rate the improvement to your BB so I have something to compare.

Maybe I'm asking too much here...

ruch · Post by **ruch** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:34 am

peace, do you just open the lactoferrin capsule and dump it into the solution for the sinus rinse? i find when the powder gets wet, it clumps together and gets all sticky. that's what happens to me when i dump it on my tongue and it mixes with my saliva anyway. it doesn't dissolve so i wouldn't want clumps in my sinuses!