Bacterial collection on top of Soft Palate

[halitosisux]

How do you know this?
Is there a biofilm that forms on this tissue?
Why would the tongue bacteria colonize there and not on other smoothe mucous membrane?

[jamesmcavoy]

How do i know ?
-- i am the victim

U said abt soft mucosal surface ,
There are 2 palates hard one is roof and behind it is the soft palate .
We would all get nasal bb for mouth odor if soft palate wasnt working fine .
I used concentratd zncl2 for 2 min a couple of times so mucosal membrane was corroded and our bb bacteria of tongue colonised there .
I say this coz before that surface didnt stink bfore but it now does .

And about curing it being impossible , u think urself how we can do it .
We cant .
any corroded mucosal membrane is open ground for breeding and we have abundance of bb bacteria in our mouths .
This is what happend to me .

I advise to all type1 people not to use zncl2 but organic form like
Lactate or acetate

[MrChips]

I find this hard to believe personally. You can roll your tongue back inside of your mouth and 'disturb' the bacteria on the soft palette, and then a simple salt water gargle would solve the issue.

[halitosisux]

James, how do you manage to see up there?

Please understand I'm not being dismissive of what you've said, I just want to try to understand.

How do you know it's corroded tissue and that the odours are not from further up in your nasal system?

[jamesmcavoy]

Mrchips ,
Yes i can easily disturb my breath odor for a couple of seconds by rolling tongue inside .but u know its just for coupl of seconds .its like drinking water changes to gud breath for a movement .
But simple salt water solves issue till u dont put smthing in ur mouth .
My case is i smell like anything i put on my tongue in a second .u can easily identify wht i ate and this smell disgusts people .i cant even open my mouth while i am eating .it disgusts people around .at first , i would get this food smell only if i put smthing on my tongue .it didnt smell when i rubbed a food item on my other mucosal surfaces like gums ,roof ,soft palate and cheek surface .but it started to smell like tongue after i used zncl2 solution .now wherever i rub a jelly on my any mucosal surface ,i produce jelly smell .

My type1 case is while and after i eat anything i strongly smell like that food and after smtime it changes to foul vsc smell which can be eliminated with zinc ions .

Remember ,most of you type1 users , if u have a disgusting lingering food odor while and after eating then its not vsc .

Salt solution does help that foul vsc smell until i put something in mouth but not after .

[jamesmcavoy]

Hey halitosux
Palate surface is not like tongue surface its smooth but what matters is what strain it has .
It wont change its color .it just shows the symptom bb .
And its same as before ,there is no white gunk or something u can resemble with tongue surface .
Important thing is the symptom (bb) it has been producing lately .
Abt nasal odour , the mechanism is our inner nasal opening is behind soft palate so it barriers the air to nasal opening when we talk so we can smell mouth breath by only mouth and not nose .sometimes ,if tongue coating is very much to the throat then we get nasal odour too bcoz its very down .this is very imaginable part u shud run in ur mind so u could understand what happens .
I have had nasal bb for sometime when my coating was down in throat after i used peroxide .somehow i managed to remove it permenantly and nasal was gone .
Now to ur second question .
Have u used zncl2 ?if not use it in concentrated .
When u gargle with it,it produces intense sensation inside 4 times to that h2o2 .
Now u can imagine what happens ,
Corroding means not bleeding but fair enough to disturb epithelial lining creating a breeding ground .
Understand that Its not a wound .Its like a vacuum like intense feeling u can imagine .u have used h2o2 so u can understand .however i dont think peroxide can corrode to this level .
U will know if u use it .
Google" zinc chloride corrosive to epithelial surfaces" .
Our bb bacteria are so ****ing ones that they can colonise anywhere they get .
Its not any white gunk on any palate or roof but flora is changed .
U may know that long term peroxide use aggrevates bb , its bcoz of this .
Breeding ground changes from 10 to 100 .
I think now u can understand how .

See my above reply to mrchip, there i have told abt how my bb is .
I even created athread abt this but no one replied .
U see to it .
It starts with "read carefully ..."
Find my thread, there is a full description .
Remember my advise it
FOR TYPE1 USERS ,DO NOT USE HYDROGEN PEROXIDE AND CONCENTRATED ZINC CHLORIDE .
INSTED USE ORGANIC ZINC FORM .
Iam an engineer (yes unemployed ) but i am a science guy and know how to find root and exact cause .

Sry for bad english

[halitosisux]

I'm still not clear whether you mean the side of the soft palate facing the inside of the mouth, or whether you mean the side facing the back of the nose.

I'm unclear about it all. There have been some good discussions recently about this area harboring stagnant mucus and how this leads to odour. There are methods mentioned to clean this area. Just as important is to find out why it's happening in the first place - infection, malformation/deformity, silent reflux etc.

[jamesmcavoy]

There are my some questions to u.
Please answer all

1) do u get food smell like i do ?
2) what do u think ur cause of bb is ?
3) has anything helped u for ur bb(like probiotic,mouthwash anything..) ? What is that and how do u think it helps ?
4) what is ur breath smell like and ur daily routine ?

Plz answer these .

If u want to know abt soft palate i am talking abt ,
Just put ur finger on roof of mouth which feels hard .now move ur finger to the back without leaving inner surface . From The location where ur hardness ends , soft palate starts .
That is soft palate .if u navigAte ur finger more inside to the back without leaving surface u getwur nasal openings .
I located it right now while typing .
The mucus harbors in those nasal openings and netipot solution sometimes drags down to the throat through this .
I cant explain beyond this .
Answer my questions

[halitosisux]

If the question is meant for me:

1) Yes I get food smell - The coating on the tongue, which everyone has to varying degrees, is there to act like a sponge to allow the taste buds to sample the liquified contents of whatever we're chewing/eating. Whatever that sponge soaks up is also going to linger on our breath for a while, that's completely normal. Unfortunately, if we have Type-1 BB that sponge is going to soak up the VSCs and it's going to make the breath reek.

2) I think the cause of Type-1 BB (once obvious things like dental problems and dry mouth etc are ruled out) are possibly PND - sinus infection - bloodborne odours that get released through saliva or mucus - something being secreted into the mouth that causes bacterial overactivity, such as blood, excessive protein, immunological releases, reflux from the stomach.

3) Removal of a wisdom tooth gave me a >90% improvement. Colgate Total as a general toothpaste. I use a waterpik with salt water to throughly clean every crevice, zinc lactate brushed lightly into the tongue, thorough rinse with hydrogen peroxide for one minute, tongue rinse/gargle with chlorhexidine digluconate for one minute (minimum 30 mins after using any other products). I manage to keep a continuous clean taste in my mouth and no odour at all on my tongue. For added confidence I use xylitol mints. They work better than mints that don't contain xylitol, so as far as I'm concerned xylitol is beneficial.

I've never suffered with nasal odours and my mucus never smells of anything. While I still had tonsils, I had tonsil stones and it was worse on the right side where I had the problematic wisdom tooth - maybe a coincidence, maybe not. I also have a deviated septum and my right nostril is usually quite blocked, and I have lots of PND. Maybe that's the reason why my right tonsil smelled a lot worse than my left side.

[jamesmcavoy]

Hi hali

Thanx for answering as it was for u .
Its very strange that ur study is good abt halitosis but there is still one important aspect that u have not clarified or studied in detail .
That is oral microflora.
There are too many cases of type1 bb where evrrything except tongue is in gud condition .
Anyone without bb doesnt produce food smell while he eats .

[jamesmcavoy]

There are some of ur concepts u should work upon .plz dont misunderstand me but sponge doesnt soak vscs.
Sponge of type1 person contains bb bacteria and as its surface is bread like it adsorbs food debris which then reeks and rots by bb bacteria producing vsc

[halitosisux]

There are too many cases of type1 bb where evrrything except tongue is in gud condition .

Yes, unless a known cause of bad breath remains hidden or undiagnosed, or there remains an as yet unknown cause of Type-1 BB.

Everyone produces food smell when they eat, but if if a person has Type-1 BB where there are high levels of VSCs present on the tongue then the smell of the food is going to mix with the smell of the VSCs and be carried on the breath.

I would guess that VSCs detectable from the tongue surface are a combination of the constant release of VSCs by the microorganisms deep within the papillae of the tongue surface and the VSCs which are soaked into the spongy layer of visible coating. You only have to see how colour pigments are so easily absorbed into the tongue coating from food colourings to imagine how odourous chemicals can also be absorbed.

[jamesmcavoy]

The word u mentioned "unknown cause " is use of antibiotics or stress for a considerable period changes our oral flora and even digestion .
So doctors always say stomach problems are due to stress but no one mentions oral microflora health .
Ofcourse so many are on continuous antibiotics but dont get bb but its their own body chemistry that dominates any ill effects but people like me become victims .
I have not seen anyone getting food smell while eating .guys chew even a garlic pungent spicy curry with open mouth but i didnt smell any of them while or after eating but i am a dragon breath while eating .i dont even remember the last time i ate with smone .
Anyways ur theory is somewhat correct ,we should work upon that .
I think it wud be better if u use the word 'release' instead of 'absorb' .
Coz vscs are released .
May be u r right for using word absorb vsc ,
Please make me understand that in detail simple language .
Is that like vsc mixes with food debris causing smell ?

U know ,i am behind on something so powerful .will let u know if get success in it .
Thanx

[jamesmcavoy]

There is question in my mind where i need your opinion .
In india here its impossible to get blis k12 for me .
So i am thinking of gargling with ordinary probiotic from chemist shop ?
Whats ur advise ?will it work or not ?

If not , continuous kissing and rubbling tongues on eachother will help ?
Hey please i am serious and not using offensive language .u know that ,it basically suggests oral flora exchange .
Will any of these work ?
Plz dont give any thread location just give ur opinion.

[halitosisux]

Some interesting points you've made.

There are so many fundamentally important things we still do not appear to have the answers to.

Can an individial species or type of bacteria that colonizes or becomes dominant in the mouth, be responsible for chronic bad breath? Can a virus be responsible?
Can antibiotics or antibacterials lead to this happening?
If so, then why doesn't the reverse happen, where they can be used to allow the colonization of supposedly beneficial bacteria like s.salivarius?

Is the flora of the mouth in any way determined by the flora of the gut?

The gut flora can alter by changes in the diet. If it's that easy to alter, then we can only imagine what food intolerances and other gut disturbances can do.

Antibiotics can lead to the development of c.diff overgrowth in the gut, so why not other "less harmful" disturbances, like those which lead to known blood-borne causes of halitosis.

And like you said, there's individual body chemistry and "genetics" which can make a person more susceptible to such problems initiating.

Having said these things, if I knew the answers then I would be able to advise you on the use of probiotics. I'm sure there can be no harm in trying though. If you can't get hold of Blis-K12 then you might be able to get hold of the Swanson Blis-K12. Try the "flora exchange". I've read of many cases of BB starting and stopping - with a KISS