Murat Aydin

[telpar]

Dr Murat, do you think that in the future it will be possible to buy Halitosil ZN products (mouthwash and tongue gel) even outside Turkey?

I am aware that you do not sell the product. It doesn't depends on you. I would just like to know if the exclusive sale in Turkey is for commercial reasons or because there are problems with bureaucracy, export authorizations etc.

___________________

Another question.

If I wanted to ask a pharmacy to prepare a galenic solution based on zinc chloride, what would be a simple and safe recipe?
For example, I think I understand that it could be done with a liter of sterilized water and 0.8 grams of ZNCL2. Correct?

[aydinmur]

Dear Telpar
Thanks for the question

Yes, I do not sell any product. In 2008 I have developed a formula for oral and body malodor and given my formula to a pharmacy company free of charge. They sell my formula as a brandname HalitosilZn rinse. I have not received even one cent up to current date for Halitosil. It is for only type1 halitosis patients but not other types.

Yes there are problems with bureaucracy, export authorizations etc. However according to Mr. Ilhami, one entrepreneur from Ukrein had bought 100 gr HalitosilZn as powder. I am not sure how they did. Ask question to manager of the company: Mr Ilhami Kotan <[email protected]> his celullar phone 05305103342

>Friend of this forum, we are very very
>fortunate having among us Dr. Murat.

Many thanks for compliment but I have still not a solution for all halitosis cases.

-Murat Aydin

[aydinmur]

...snipped... is a sensation of a burnt tongue common with patients who have a persistent, recurring white tongue coating? .... I have done oravital testing which checked for yeasts and did DNA analysis to check for several common types of odor and dental disease causing bacteria. I have used the prescribed antibiotic/antifungal rinses and followed up chlorhexadine as reccomended, but the coating on my tongue gets worse again immediately after the rinses and chlorhexadine seems to exacerbate it in the long run as well. Aside from the smell, the burnt feeling on the tongue is a major irritation to me and I'd be grateful if you could offer any suggestions!

There are a lot of antimicrobial peptide in the content of saliva or periodontal secretions. Phosphoproteins, histatins, 19 different oligopeptides. Antimicrobial peptides may can be a hook that bacteria can cling to.
Before all, We do not need antimicrobial peptide to clean biofilms on teeth and especially tongue. Simply brush them.


>is a sensation of a burnt tongue common
>with patients who have a persistent,
>recurring white tongue coating?

No
Usually There is a bad taste in type 1 cases syncronising with bad odor when tongue coated.
This bad taste is unique never alters, while his odor alters.

I dont know what oravital testing is.
According to my investigations Candida dose not cause halitosis. (Aydın M, 2019) On the other hand, in the literature, there is not enough evident about candida may be a potential cause for halitosis.
I do not advise chlorhexidine. It can cause burnt feeling (Gagarin, 1995)
- Murat Aydin

[telpar]

Many thanks for compliment but I have still not a solution for all halitosis cases.

-Murat Aydin

The honesty of your reply is the reason we admire you.

You don't sell product, solutions. You give us an opinion based on scientifc evidence.
This is exactly what we need. We need the truth. Whene there is not a solution, better the truth than a lie.

About halitosis, industry, dentist and internal doctos, have completely forgotten the "scientific method" of Galileo Galiei.

They sell opiniones and prescribe rinse without any scientific base.

When they don't want to admit that have no a cure, they say the patient has halitophobia.

Maybe sometimes it's true, and patient really has halitophobia. But the halitophobiac has to be proved, so the patient can to start his psychologic route.

What a disaster is when the patient convinces himself to have not halitosis, because of the wrong diagnosis of a doctor, and then find out that he has halitosis.

[aydinmur]

Halitosis must be re-written.
There are a lot of problematic matters in this area. For example organoleptic assesment, pre-measuremenet protocol (fasting before examination), threshold value, classification, and many more.
Halitophobia is one of subjective halitosis cases' psychogenic clinic forms
It is first stage of psychogenic halitosis and is very very mild illness. Every halitosis patient will have Halitophobia if halitosis enough prolongs (years)
So that, A type 1 halitosis patient becomes type 1+5 after years.

There are worse psychogenic clinic forms if halitosis more prolongs. Every psychogenic form can be postulated with specific signs.

[Ghana3]

Halitosis must be re-written.
There are a lot of problematic matters in this area. For example organoleptic assesment, pre-measuremenet protocol (fasting before examination), threshold value, classification, and many more.
Halitophobia is one of subjective halitosis cases' psychogenic clinic forms
It is first stage of psychogenic halitosis and is very very mild illness. Every halitosis patient will have Halitophobia if halitosis enough prolongs (years)
So that, A type 1 halitosis patient becomes type 1+5 after years.

There are worse psychogenic clinic forms if halitosis more prolongs. Every psychogenic form can be postulated with specific signs.

" Every halitosis patient will have halitophobia " With all due respect doctor, but this cant be proved; I think that many people here do not have relatives or people they trust to "test" their breath, so the detection of breath is done with non-verbal communication through reactions at work, in publics places or at home; I have no doubt that halitophobia exists, but in view of your numerous replies I have the impression that you are perhaps generalising it; I am aware of the difficulties in diagnosing the exact cause and cure of bad breath but I almost feel that "halitophobia" is the easy choice. " Its in your head"

[meerkat]

...but I almost feel that "halitophobia" is the easy choice. " Its in your head"

I don't think halitiphobia means that your halitosis is purely delusional. I think it just means you've developed a complex about your breath odor, probably through the traumatic experiences of actually having halitosis.

I know this is true for me at least.

In other words having problem halitosis can cause psychological problems. Anxiety, depression, and yes phobia and even paranoia and delusions. Mental health is a pretty deep rabbit hole if you start tumbling down it

[aydinmur]

Halitosis must be re-written.
There are a lot of problematic matters in this area. For example organoleptic assesment, pre-measuremenet protocol (fasting before examination), threshold value, classification, and many more.
Halitophobia is one of subjective halitosis cases' psychogenic clinic forms
It is first stage of psychogenic halitosis and is very very mild illness. Every halitosis patient will have Halitophobia if halitosis enough prolongs (years)
So that, A type 1 halitosis patient becomes type 1+5 after years.

There are worse psychogenic clinic forms if halitosis more prolongs. Every psychogenic form can be postulated with specific signs.

" Every halitosis patient will have halitophobia " With all due respect doctor, but this cant be proved; I think that many people here do not have relatives or people they trust to "test" their breath, so the detection of breath is done with non-verbal communication through reactions at work, in publics places or at home; I have no doubt that halitophobia exists, but in view of your numerous replies I have the impression that you are perhaps generalising it; I am aware of the difficulties in diagnosing the exact cause and cure of bad breath but I almost feel that "halitophobia" is the easy choice. " Its in your head"

Dear Ghana,
There are two problems with your message.
1- Halitophobia does not mean the absence of halitosis. Its mean: "fear of the halitosis"
2- I did not say " Every halitosis patient will have halitophobia "
I said: "Every halitosis patient will have Halitophobia *IF* halitosis enough prolongs (years)"
(You extracted one part of my conditional sentence.)

[Jimi Stein]

Halitosis must be re-written.
There are a lot of problematic matters in this area. For example organoleptic assesment, pre-measuremenet protocol (fasting before examination), threshold value, classification, and many more.
Halitophobia is one of subjective halitosis cases' psychogenic clinic forms
It is first stage of psychogenic halitosis and is very very mild illness. Every halitosis patient will have Halitophobia if halitosis enough prolongs (years)
So that, A type 1 halitosis patient becomes type 1+5 after years.

There are worse psychogenic clinic forms if halitosis more prolongs. Every psychogenic form can be postulated with specific signs.

" Every halitosis patient will have halitophobia " With all due respect doctor, but this cant be proved; I think that many people here do not have relatives or people they trust to "test" their breath, so the detection of breath is done with non-verbal communication through reactions at work, in publics places or at home; I have no doubt that halitophobia exists, but in view of your numerous replies I have the impression that you are perhaps generalising it; I am aware of the difficulties in diagnosing the exact cause and cure of bad breath but I almost feel that "halitophobia" is the easy choice. " Its in your head"

Dear Ghana,
There are two problems with your message.
1- Halitophobia does not mean the absence of halitosis. Its mean: "fear of the halitosis"
2- I did not say " Every halitosis patient will have halitophobia "
I said: "Every halitosis patient will have Halitophobia *IF* halitosis enough prolongs (years)"
(You extracted one part of my conditional sentence.)

is there a person anywhere who would not be halitophobic if they have persistent bad breath? EVerybody is.....it is hurtful because you see reactions from others all the time

[Ghana3]

Halitosis must be re-written.
There are a lot of problematic matters in this area. For example organoleptic assesment, pre-measuremenet protocol (fasting before examination), threshold value, classification, and many more.
Halitophobia is one of subjective halitosis cases' psychogenic clinic forms
It is first stage of psychogenic halitosis and is very very mild illness. Every halitosis patient will have Halitophobia if halitosis enough prolongs (years)
So that, A type 1 halitosis patient becomes type 1+5 after years.

There are worse psychogenic clinic forms if halitosis more prolongs. Every psychogenic form can be postulated with specific signs.

" Every halitosis patient will have halitophobia " With all due respect doctor, but this cant be proved; I think that many people here do not have relatives or people they trust to "test" their breath, so the detection of breath is done with non-verbal communication through reactions at work, in publics places or at home; I have no doubt that halitophobia exists, but in view of your numerous replies I have the impression that you are perhaps generalising it; I am aware of the difficulties in diagnosing the exact cause and cure of bad breath but I almost feel that "halitophobia" is the easy choice. " Its in your head"

Dear Ghana,
There are two problems with your message.
1- Halitophobia does not mean the absence of halitosis. Its mean: "fear of the halitosis"
2- I did not say " Every halitosis patient will have halitophobia "
I said: "Every halitosis patient will have Halitophobia *IF* halitosis enough prolongs (years)"
(You extracted one part of my conditional sentence.)

I might be wrong doctor, but from the définition i got halitophobia means : " fear of bad breath that doesnt exist , in case of someone aware of his halitosis, the fear of bad breath is obviously linked.
Maybe my définition is incorrect then i agree Every halitosis patient will fear bad breath If halitosis enough prolongs.

[Jimi Stein]

" Every halitosis patient will have halitophobia " With all due respect doctor, but this cant be proved; I think that many people here do not have relatives or people they trust to "test" their breath, so the detection of breath is done with non-verbal communication through reactions at work, in publics places or at home; I have no doubt that halitophobia exists, but in view of your numerous replies I have the impression that you are perhaps generalising it; I am aware of the difficulties in diagnosing the exact cause and cure of bad breath but I almost feel that "halitophobia" is the easy choice. " Its in your head"

Dear Ghana,
There are two problems with your message.
1- Halitophobia does not mean the absence of halitosis. Its mean: "fear of the halitosis"
2- I did not say " Every halitosis patient will have halitophobia "
I said: "Every halitosis patient will have Halitophobia *IF* halitosis enough prolongs (years)"
(You extracted one part of my conditional sentence.)

I might be wrong doctor, but from the définition i got halitophobia means : " fear of bad breath that doesnt exist , in case of someone aware of his halitosis, the fear of bad breath is obviously linked.
Maybe my définition is incorrect then i agree Every halitosis patient will fear bad breath If halitosis enough prolongs.

I also thought the same. Dr Murat has different definition I guess

[telpar]

Dear Dr. Murat,
I have some questions for you.
There are so many questions. Maybe they are interesting.
I hope it doesn't bother you.

1) Many researches state that "the origin of halitosis in 90% of patients is the oral cavity".
Good. How did they establish this percentage? Every member of this forum suffers from halitosis and none of us are aware of the origin of halitosis.
So: if getting a diagnosis is so difficult, how is it possible that researchers have identified with certainty the origin of halitosis of the people they examined?

2) The people who write in this forum are exactly the kind of patient who comes to Adana to be examined by you. I mean people who have been seen by many doctors and then find you online.
I guess you visit people from all over the world.
Can you tell us the percentage of type 1, type 2, type 3, type 4, type 5 halitosis you diagnose?
My idea is that the rate of type 1 halitosis among us should be very low. We have been examined by many dentists. I don't think it's possible that none of them have been able to help us ...

3) How many causes of halitosis have you diagnosed? 100? 150? More?
According on your experience, is it possible to classify the individual causes of halitosis, in a ranking, divided by types (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) and ordered from the high percentage to the low percentage?
I think it would be very useful. We could rule out the most likely causes, and perhaps some of us might find the origin.

4) This question has some points in common with the previous question.
Do you think that collecting and sharing among doctors thousands of anamnesis can be useful in identifying some risk factors for halitosis?
I mean: by analyzing the medical history of thousands of halitosis patients, their eating habits, their medical history, nationality, age, weight, work, level of education, some common causes of halitosis could be identified. Is it a bad idea?

5) You taught us, and I want to emphasize, that antibiotics do not cure bad breath and that we cannot cure bad breath by killing bacteria. They always come back.
I think we all agree on this point.
Many patients with bad breath report that they have experienced temporary relief by taking antibiotics.
Some of them claim to be permanently cured after taking antibiotics. How is it possible? I mean: maybe they had a chronic infection somewhere, no symptoms, and the antibiotics cured their unknown infection that was the underlying cause of their bad breath? Is it possible? A dangerous but lucky attempt?
This could be also the reason for someone who healed from halitosis after tonsil removal.
The origin was not halitosis, but antibiotics have cured some undiagnosed infection.

[aydinmur]

Telpar many thanks for the questions
1- Good question. Usually researcher takes base patients who applied his clinic. He measures H2S level in the mouth. If it is above a specific level, he diagnoses halitosis without investigating another problem in the background.

However, There is neither a lower limit for type 1 halitosis nor once gas reading can be sufficient for diagnosis. Perhaps these patients have type 1+2 halitosis. Or type 1+4 or 1+5 or 1+2+5 halitosis. Oral gas measurement indicates type 1 only.



2- Good question again.
I see most often Type 1+5, then, type 5, type 2 and type 1 respectively.

But remember: Im last stop for difficult halitosis patients. People suffer from halitosis visit firstly my colleagues. Most of them heal. They eliminate easy cases. If they dont heal, they come to me. For this reason my clinic's statistics do not reflect real distribution of halitosis types on general population.


if the first button of the shirt is buttoned incorrectly, all of them will be incorrect. Most dentists still think soft brush is better, they still prescribe alcoholic mouthrinses. They may be unsufficient to treatment halitosis as you said. Important problem is the first button. Halitosis should be re-written.


3- I didn't count but maybe more than 50 causes are frequently seen. Also, hundreds extrem causes may be present. Even, I saw phantom tumor in lung, gout disease, olfactory bulbus damage, mucor mucosis in the sinus cavity they are very rare and extrem cases.

Here, correct question is: "what cause is most frequently seen ?"
Answer is: Soft dental brushes and soft brushing, not brushing the tongue, alcohol using, bad dental bridges and crowns, gingival bleeding, inability to close the mouth in the normal position, airway malformation or stenosis..

4- Good idea but each of us take anamnesis with different questions, different methods, different priorities. Data must be standardized. I think so difficult.


5- Perhaps a subclinic infection can be healed by antibiotics. I have not seen such a patient. Usually halitosis returns if antibiotic stopped it

- Murat Aydin

[telpar]

Dear Dr. Murat,
I have found near to me some pharmacy that prepare galenic formulation.
I have thought asking them to prepare a galenic formulation (mouthwash) based on zinc chloride.
What would be a simple and safe recipe?
For example, it could be done with a liter of sterilized water and 0.9 grams of ZNCL2. Is it correct?

[aydinmur]

Yes I have developed a very good foırmulation and given to a company free of charge.
But the company rightly does not enjoy to my disclose its formulation.