Halitosis Q&A

[girlie girl]

Gabriel would you agree to the following:

Quite often frequent bad breath can be due zinc and magnesium deficiency, in which case zinc gluconate 50 mg is taken once a week for only 3-4 weeks, plus some magnesium citrate supplements taken for only 5 days out of a week. For about a month.

It takes two weeks at least for the body to have sufficient amounts of bicarbonate. However baking soda is not nearly as effective as a lemon and baking soda in raising the alkalinity. In which case I would try one whole freshly squeezed lime which is approximately equal to 8 teaspoon of lime juice plus 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda to 1/2 glass of water. Allow the fizz to proceed for 3-5 minutes and then I would take that twice a day, once in the morning and once before bedtime. It NECESSARY that NO fluoride toothpaste is used as it tends to worsen the condition in suppressing the body's IMMUNE SYSTEM. If excessive fluoride is the problem, then a small pinch of borax to drinking water will help remove that so that the glandular functions and immune system be restored. Most bromine, chlorine and fluorine are antagonistic against the iodine, allowing immune suppressing leading to bad breath, since you did mentioned you got good oral hygeine according to the dentist.

I found it at this website...
http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/breath.html

I really believe there is something here. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you.

[girlie girl]

More questions from other website:

READER QUESTION
11/22/2006: Peter from Auckland writes, "Hi, I have has sinus-related bad breath for years. There seems to be no way to fix the sinus problem but i am more worried about the breath anyway. It seems clear from the research that it is from nasty bacteria in the mouth that feed off the mucous. I have tried everything but nothing is works. Hydrogen Peroxide seemed effective for a couple of days but now it appears the bacteria have somehow made a come back. Anyone have any ideas?"

Ted replies, "Peter: Halitosis is a condition when your body is acid and the bacteria grows causing halitosis. So if you take 1/2 teaspoon in the morning of baking soda and 1/2 glass of water twice a day, the acidity would reduce and there will be less bacterial colonies residing. The critical issue is to take 25 mg of zinc acetate/or zinc citrate or zinc gluconate supplements twice a day and consider using a mouthwash that have zinc chloride, such as Lavoris. I make my own mouthwash, using 1% zinc chloride and added some peppermint and thyme oil. Preparing a potassium bicarbonate or sodium bicarbonate with some sea salt mouthwash should also help reduce bacterial colonies. Cavities and halitosis maybe related and I think taken molybdenum supplements will help, in the form of sodium molybdate. If you do have trouble seeing in the dark a bit and have bad breath, molybdenum does protect the body from these two dissimilar conditions.

Consider doing oil pulling with 1 drop of peppermint oil this will remove some heavy metals from the body but in a very few cases, it seems to remove the amalgam tooth filings too. For some reason amalgam tooth fillings with heavy metals seems to promote fungus growth and this might lead to halitosis.

Most of all is to avoid eating acid forming food, such as coffee, tea, white bread, and white flour, pastries and all sweet foods. Just eating dark green vegetables and whole fruits works the best. Ted"

I am really thinking my problem is acidity.

[elliott]

Bet nothing on that. 99% of halitosis is an oral infection.

So. 1% of chronic halitosis is digestive related. Are you going to stick with that?

So having putrid gassy burps after eating, having taste and smell of fermented food after eating, weak stomach valve not keeping digestive acid down, sour stomach upon waking up, bloated stomach after eating, dehydration, trouble digesting dairy and protein ....etc.

The above are a 1% contribution to this "oral infection"? What else is infecting the oral area? And where can this other 99% of the infection originate?

Elliott, although not an MD I must say these symptoms sound exactly like GERD (acid reflux). If you have this condition there many changes you should make in your lifestyle to alleviate the symptoms. Have you done any research on this?

My quotes are approximate and not scientific fact, because there is just not enough research yet to yield exact figures. Is it 99%? 98%? 97%? we just don't know exactly. What we do know is that almost all halitosis originates in the mouth.

My "99%" quote is to say that there are many systemic conditions that can contribute to BB. Perhaps 1% of cases have little or no oral infection and are mostly or entirely caused by these other conditions. The other 99% are not neatly categorised. <snip>

Of course I have researched GERD. Keep in mind WE are the ones with BB everyday of our lives. You don't have BB, so you are relying on science, which has no answers. Don't assume you automatically know more than we do about our own condition. We have everyday of our lives to deal with this and try to figure out what is going on, and most of us have exercised all possibilities that we can.

I'm glad that you admit that bacteria may not be generated completely from the mouth. It was sounding like you want to stress oral, so people will buy your mouth rinse and think it is a cure. Well, there are other sources that feed the mouth, so it's not that simple.

You high percentages are advertisements. They look good to readers, but you can't fool me buddy. I HAVE BB, so lets keep the discussion real here. I am starting to see the concerns that our friend Jimi had in the 1st place. I don't doubt your sincerity, but have some respect for us. You benefit from our knowledge as well.

Heres an offer to consider though to prove that I'm full of shit. You cure me. I'll make a donation that is 10X the cost of treatment. Or I pay for other members here to be cured. Either way. You don't cure me, I get 50% off. (90% rate of success, so it won't matter to you, right)

[Gabriel]

Of course I have researched GERD. Keep in mind WE are the ones with BB everyday of our lives. You don't have BB, so you are relying on science, which has no answers. Don't assume you automatically know more than we do about our own condition. We have everyday of our lives to deal with this and try to figure out what is going on, and most of us have exercised all possibilities that we can.

I'm glad that you admit that bacteria may not be generated completely from the mouth. It was sounding like you want to stress oral, so people will buy your mouth rinse and think it is a cure. Well, there are other sources that feed the mouth, so it's not that simple.

You high percentages are advertisements. They look good to readers, but you can't fool me buddy. I HAVE BB, so lets keep the discussion real here. I am starting to see the concerns that our friend Jimi had in the 1st place. I don't doubt your sincerity, but have some respect for us. You benefit from our knowledge as well.

Heres an offer to consider though to prove that I'm full of shit. You cure me. I'll make a donation that is 10X the cost of treatment. Or I pay for other members here to be cured. Either way. You don't cure me, I get 50% off. (90% rate of success, so it won't matter to you, right)

Elliott, you raise a number of points. I will address them in reverse sequence.

5) Negotiation for treatment is not on the table. Even if I was a person who could negotiate this (which I am not), it would not happen for the simple reason that scientists don't do business that way.

4) The high percentages are scientific fact. I made a promise to be honest here, and I always am to the best of my ability. You don't have to believe me - that's your prerogative. Please remember, I am not the BreathDoc, and I do not have her experience or expertise. But I'm not sure why you have such a hard time accepting the facts about BB that I am reporting to you. If you don't mind being more specific I will address your questions as best I can.

3) In terms of severe chronic and persistent halitosis, in almost all cases the originating problem is in the mouth. For example: out of 4000 cases, 3 were diagnosed as TMAU, 2 as hiatal hernia. This is an extremely small number of cases not involving oral bacteria as a primary cause.

I have made many posts describing the corollary effects of this infection. I realise that it is tiring to read every post, but pls also keep in mind that it is tiring to post the same information over & over.

Also - let me stress this - I am NOT here to sell rinses. If anything, I want to let you know that a treatment system exists that works better for severe cases than less severe cases.

It is unique, it is based purely on biochemistry, it works, and it is not inexpensive. Also it is not a cure! It is a treatment that controls halitosis so effectively that only you and your clinician will know that you ever had BB.

2) Of course "science" has answers - just not all of the answers. Are you saying that 'most of the answers' is the same as 'no answers'? If so, that would be a very unscientific conclusion.

Please understand that I know CH is a horrible thing to deal with. Maybe you would rather lose a limb than have this affliction any longer. If I had the disease and such a choice with no possibility of a cure/treatment I might be very well thinking along those lines myself.

However, Elliott, it is a fact that you are not a biochemist. Nor are most BB victims. Despite all the schemes, regimes, surgeries and diets you may try, you will still not discover the "cure".

A scientist who has studied oral malodour for 15 years, and who has successfully treated thousands of chronic halitosis sufferers, certainly DOES know a lot more about severe chronic malodour than you do.

1) Please pardon me if I ask simple questions. I do not know you, so I must ask obvious questions and not make assumptions.

[Jimi Stein]

Gabriel

We need more info on those infections, why do they occur, is the problem in liver??

About the rinses. I have severe alergy< to chlorine dioxine, cholhexidine and other names for the same chemical so I can not use it. Also zinc chloride.

I just dont believe you are using something else than those chemicals, because there is nothing else there, of we should already know about it.

So I really think that you rely only on those chemicals that are used by other bb clinics.

Prove me wrong.

[emotional rescue]

Yes Gabriel,

could you explain with the most details that you can how is this treatment that you do that makes that only you and your pacient knows that he ever had bb??

[Archimonde]

Gabriel, would it be correct to say that what you offer at the breath clinic doesn't adress the underlying cause(s) of bb, only the symptom?

[Ice]

oh come on people! I'm pleasantly surprised gabriel has the patience answering all these questions, which have been repeating itself for some time now. This debate is like watching a magician and a 6 years old kid discussing what everything he can do, and what everything he has to offer in his big show, and u want him to tell u how he does it. First of all he will not give "information" for free, be realistic, no magician will! second of all, is there absolutely noone who can visit this breathDoc and report experience-results?! There have got to be people who live near this clinic! and finish this "chat", because it is a dead end. I dont know how "educated" Gabriel is about our cases, and there is only one way to find out!

But to be completly frank, I think the treatment is meant for people from """""third world counries""""(not a perfect example, but still), where people don't know all what we do, how to brush teeth, gargle, postnasal drip, floss, tonque scraper, and that have been using Colgate paste....But for most of us, who have read pretty much all the literature about badbreath, treatmen would be same as Dr, Katzes treatment, ; use my paste3x a day, rinse 3x a day, don't eat dairy, drink water, lemon juice and ure cured...


AND If / When (BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY LOGICAL NEXT STEP!) someone finally decides to visit the potential "cure/treatment" for his problem MAKE SURE U TAKE SOMEONE WHO U TRUST, WHO WILL VERYFY U HAD BREATH, AND WHAT THE RESULT IS....BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO LISTEN TESTIMONIALS FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE HALITOFOBIA. JUST TO MAKE SURE, AND TO REMOVE ALL DOUBTS!

[thanatos]

Gabriel,

I think I'll pay the breath doc a visit later this year. I'm willing to try anything. A few questions:

1.) According to the website: Rinses are very effective against free floating bacteria. Unfortunately, most bacteria live in a biofilm [eg., dental plaque]. Biofilms are difficult to penetrate and most rinses cannot flow through the matrix surrounding the bacteria.

Why do the prepared rinses from the breath clinic penetrate this biofilm where other products do not? What properties do the breath clinic rinses have that the other's don't?

2.) Only rinses? What about tooth pastes to use with a tongue brush that allows us to really penetrate deep into the surfaces of our tongues?

3.) Why is data regarding specific bad breath bacteria (even their names) so limited on the internet yet the breath clinic knows nearly 100 of them and has treatments for all? When I was trying to research information regarding specific bacteria, I'd come across new feeds saying bacteriologists have discovered a few strains to add onto the few that are already known. Is the breath doc simply ahead of her time and is not sharing the information with other scientists (I don't blame her if that is the case)? [/b]

[thanatos]

[thanatos]

Another thing: if this treatment works for me, I'd spend a lot of time telling people that it works. With the volume of people successfully treated by the clinic, why can't I fine people on the internet doing so? Nobody is even hiding behind a screen name saying how it works. On this site we have one person saying it didn't work for her. That's all I can find.

I would praise this treatment all over the internet if it worked for me.

[mike987]

Thanatos, you do seem like a good candidate..

And I don't think money is a problem for you.. You ordered that expensive mixer and you also give women all kinds of money for services you've never received.. so.. Maybe you ought to try it out.

I hate to say "You go try it with your money".. but.. well I don't really have access to much money, and the money I do have I'll probably use for a tonsilectomy once I save enough up..


How much does this cost again?

[thanatos]

[Gabriel]

Another thing: if this treatment works for me, I'd spend a lot of time telling people that it works. With the volume of people successfully treated by the clinic, why can't I fine people on the internet doing so? Nobody is even hiding behind a screen name saying how it works. On this site we have one person saying it didn't work for her. That's all I can find.

I would praise this treatment all over the internet if it worked for me.

VERY interesting point, thanatos. I have wondered this myself. We do have a few clients who were willing to be interviewed for newspaper articles - the articles are proof of that. We have reports that some of our Japanese clients reported their successful treatments on Japanese BB forums - we have to take their word for it. Apart from that, not much at all in terms of 3rd person reports. Well, why would that be?

- Very few people with this disease feel connected or part of a community (for example, this one). Most sufferers actually feel very alone and isolated, and believe that they are the only ones that have the problem. Health professionals (dentists, doctors etc) may be the reason for this belief. After all, if you visit several highly trained and experienced specialists and none of them have a clue what is causing your problem (never mind actually treating it).. you could easily conclude that you have some weird, unheard of condition.

- BB research suggests that as much as 25% of the world's population has a chronic breath problem. If only 0.1% of these actually have severe CH that would be (6.65B)*25% = (1.66B)*0.1% = 1,660,000 people. We have treated approx 4,000. Out of this tiny percentage of mostly isolated individuals, how many are likely to want to talk about a problem they don't want anyone to know they had in the first place?

Also consider how much the internet has evolved over the past 15 years (the Fresh Breath Clinic was founded in 1993). It is only in the last few years that forums like this one have been possible. So let's say over the past 5 years we have treated 1500 people, and 10% of these have been severe CH cases.

That leaves only 150 ppl over the past 5 years, from approx 30 countries, to find this forum and tell their story... if they wanted to .. and it seems to be a fact that most ppl don't.

[Gabriel]

Gabriel,

I think I'll pay the breath doc a visit later this year. I'm willing to try anything. A few questions:

1.) According to the website: Rinses are very effective against free floating bacteria. Unfortunately, most bacteria live in a biofilm [eg., dental plaque]. Biofilms are difficult to penetrate and most rinses cannot flow through the matrix surrounding the bacteria.

Why do the prepared rinses from the breath clinic penetrate this biofilm where other products do not? What properties do the breath clinic rinses have that the other's don't?

You are quoting breathdoc.com. Very good article and very good question.

The clinic has very recently evolved to include a full service dental facility. Let's say you have your teeth cleaned (biofilm removed from teeth) and then the proprietary high impact rinse is applied to defeat the tongue biofilm as well. At that point your oral biota will be reduced to normal levels, and the low impact maintenance rinses are sufficient to control bacterial populations indefinitely.

2.) Only rinses? What about tooth pastes to use with a tongue brush that allows us to really penetrate deep into the surfaces of our tongues?

These products are also available and highly recommended. The treatment process is very detailed and covers everything.

3.) Why is data regarding specific bad breath bacteria (even their names) so limited on the internet yet the breath clinic knows nearly 100 of them and has treatments for all? When I was trying to research information regarding specific bacteria, I'd come across new feeds saying bacteriologists have discovered a few strains to add onto the few that are already known. Is the breath doc simply ahead of her time and is not sharing the information with other scientists (I don't blame her if that is the case)? [/b]

Again, a very good question. New information is often slow to be propagated across the internet. Even if the original scientific research has been published, the resulting article must be digitised and made publicly available. That process can take a relatively long time and depends on many factors of which I'm not fully cognisant.