Great article on tonsil stones

Blacklac · Post by **Blacklac** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:33 am

I read so many different threads in this forum, through about the last 10-12 pages, in the last 2 days and I didn't find anything that suggested there was much info on why exactly Tonsil Stones are formed. Surprisingly, this article was right up on the top of a Google search.

I can't speak for everyone, but this definitely sounds plausible for my situation! I have experienced tonsil stones on and off for years. I noticed them as a teenager and I'm now almost 28. I have never associated myself with having any chronic bad breath, but lately my girl friend of 3.5 years (just ended the relationship. Not BB related. Lol) had mentioned my morning breath was getting potent and sometimes throughout the day, I would have "musty" breath. So I decided to look into it and came across some YouTube videos about Tonsil Stones and then, this fantastic forum! Well, I immediately began digging for that disgusting treasure. I used a wet "Q-Tip". Sure enough, they spelled awful! Wow. What a disgusting scent to have inside the part of the body that can also be the most sensual. I am glad I am single at the time it peaked and I have discovered them.

So, the point if this thread.

http://www.squidoo.com/cause-for-tonsil-stones

I have hope because the section about the Lymphnodes, lack of excersize and natural nutrients/supplements perfectly describe my situation.

I first noticed symptoms described about 2 years ago, and I figured I had some nasty sinus infection. Well, almost every winter since, I have gotten the swollen Lymphnodes. Due my to almost dormant winter activity level, this is a very plausible partial cause. On top of that, being newly single, my diet is that of a poor college student again, out of pure laziness. Also, a ton of stress from an ending 3.5yr relationship. Now, I did go to an ERT about chronic throat clearing, and I was diagnosed with LPR. I took a months supply of Omeprazole and never got a refill. Again, laziness... I am back on Omeprazole, but I now am fairly certain this is not a cause of my BB, after getting a wiff of a Tonsil Stone.

Well, that is a long story of why I think, exercise and a better diet and supplements may just kick this issue for me. I'm not much of a story teller, always getting distracted with different thoughts, but I wanted to give my symptoms and scenarios to possible help anyone else in a similar situation.

FWIW, I have been on Omeprazole (20mg/day) for about a week now. I am back on a daily Men's One-A-Day and I plan to supplement also with Echinachea, as I read it was good for the Lymphnodes. Along with that, trying to improve my diet with more homemade meals, fruits and vegetables. Also, I planned to start working out anyways, but I hope to be able to jog a little if it's not too cold. After reading that article, I am quite excited that these should greatly reduce my symptoms and hopefully my BB. If I could keep the Stones at bay for good, that would be amazing, because besides the odor, they are quite annoying to feel in your throat.

For a side note, I went and got a tongue brush and that Orabrush tongue foam. Also, some GSE to use as a mouth rinse. I had considered using some Body Mint too, mainly for other purposes, but I'm not sure if I will take that yet.

I hope any of my situation and specifically this article helps some people. Again, I did not see any specific reasoning on this forum for the Stones, so I figured I needed to post the article.

(Just on a side note, if there is any reason I should not combine my Omeprazole, Bayer One-A-Day Men's PRO, Echinachea, Flaxseed Oil and possibly the Body Mint, please let me know. I have read a little on Body Mint and it seemed to have a lot of buzz around 2007 and 2008 and then nothing, but reading about Chlorophyll sounds like it is very beneficial to the body anyways, so I figured I may give it a try.)

dolittle · Post by **dolittle** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:39 pm

Hey,

I read the article, very interesting.

I am not gonig to say that the artcile contains wrong info, but the mainstream medical opinion (not that this is always 100% "the truth") would not agree with the cause given for tonsoliths.

The textbooks I have read (possibly a few years out of date info) state that tonsoliths are caused by the following mechanism, which I will explain in my own words:

the surface of the lymphatic tissue is nodular (bumpy) and pitted with tiny crypts (holes). The surface of the tonsils is composed of a layer of cells that are constantly shedding and renewing (like the skin and inside of the mouth). NOrmally the dead cells are shed and then are washed away. SImilarly to the skin and the skin inside the mouth (oromucosa), everything is covered in bacteria and fungi. These are normally happily in balance and actually prevent the growth of harmfull bacteria which could cause infections.

Inflammation of the tonsils (chronic) causes them to swell. Where this tonsolitis is chronic, the crypts can become obstructed.

If the crypt is obstructed, both bacteira and shed epithelial cells become trapped.

In a similar mannar to how plaque on teeth (a layer of bacteria and their protein layer that they make for themselves) can become calcified and hard (calculus) by taking on ions from saliva, this is how the trapped debris in tonsillar crypts becomes cacified and hard. This is what tonsoliths are, they are calculus, but on the tonsils, not on the teeth. They smell bad, but then so does plaque and calculus (ask your dentist they will be definately sure of this).

I just wanted to present the view of mainstream/allopathic medicine here too...as there were several aspects to this arcticle that were new information to me, and I have not heard elsewhere. The artilce does not cite any references, which I always find worrying. Instead, there are links to products for you to buy to "clean your lymph nodes". The whole thing actually came across to me as pseudoscientific and without evidence.

dolittle · Post by **dolittle** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:41 pm

dolittle wrote:Hey,

I read the article, very interesting.

I am not gonig to say that the artcile contains wrong info, but the mainstream medical opinion (not that this is always 100% "the truth") would not agree with the cause given for tonsoliths.

The textbooks I have read (possibly a few years out of date info) state that tonsoliths are caused by the following mechanism, which I will explain in my own words:

the surface of the lymphatic tissue is nodular (bumpy) and pitted with tiny crypts (holes). The surface of the tonsils is composed of a layer of cells that are constantly shedding and renewing (epithelium, like the skin and inside of the mouth). Normally the dead cells are shed and then are washed away. Similarly to the skin and the skin inside the mouth (oromucosa), everything is covered in bacteria and fungi. These are normally happily in balance and actually prevent the growth of harmfull bacteria which could cause infections.

Inflammation of the tonsils (tonsolitis) causes them to swell. Where this tonsolitis is chronic, the crypts can become obstructed.

If the crypt is obstructed, both bacteira and shed epithelial cells become trapped.

In a similar mannar to how plaque on teeth (a layer of bacteria and their protein layer that they make for themselves) can become calcified and hard (calculus) by taking on ions from saliva, this is how the trapped debris in tonsillar crypts becomes cacified and hard. This is what tonsoliths are, they are calculus, but on the tonsils, not on the teeth. They smell bad, but then so does plaque and calculus (ask your dentist they will be definately sure of this).

I just wanted to present the view of mainstream/allopathic medicine here too...as there were several aspects to this arcticle that were new information to me, and I have not heard elsewhere. The artilce does not cite any references, which I always find worrying. Instead, there are links to products for you to buy to "clean your lymph nodes". The whole thing actually came across to me as pseudoscientific and without evidence.

lost1234 · Post by **lost1234** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:11 pm

Blacklac, would you say the tonsil stones smell like you think your breath smells like? Because I think my bb smells musty also. pretty much like morning breath as you said also. I feel like I taste it and I get confused whether im tasting it, or smelling it. But its there. The only thing is.. Everytime I go to the dentist or ent, they tell me my tonsils look fine. Can they miss me having tonsil stones?

Blacklac · Post by **Blacklac** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:44 pm

lost1234 wrote:Blacklac, would you say the tonsil stones smell like you think your breath smells like? Because I think my bb smells musty also. pretty much like morning breath as you said also. I feel like I taste it and I get confused whether im tasting it, or smelling it. But its there. The only thing is.. Everytime I go to the dentist or ent, they tell me my tonsils look fine. Can they miss me having tonsil stones?

After finally smelling a Tonsil Stone, I do believe that is where my odor is coming from.

I have never been told I've had them, in my life. I have had comments about swollen Tonsils, but never the Stones and I've had them on and off for atleast 10yrs.

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:29 pm

Fully agree with dolittle here.

Funny how the smell between the teeth can sometimes smell identical to tonsil stones, even if the tonsils have been removed. So if the smell is not exclusive to the skank produced by tonsils, then whatever tonsil stones are made of cannot be exclusive to the tonsils.

One thing I don't understand though, is why doesn't dental plaque ever smell when you scrape it off and sniff it?

Saying this though, I do think the whole subject of the lymphatic system requires some serious thinking regarding bad breath. The fact that the body is all connected in this way, if something goes wrong in the digestive system for example, how there could be a pathway that leads to odours being produced or finding their way into the mouth other than through the bloodstream.

The internet is full of information like this, making quite convincing claims where true facts get twisted for the purpose of selling rubbish that won't do a thing.

dolittle · Post by **dolittle** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:41 pm

halitosisux wrote: One thing I don't understand though, is why doesn't dental plaque ever smell when you scrape it off and sniff it?

Saying this though, I do think the whole subject of the lymphatic system requires some serious thinking regarding bad breath. The fact that the body is all connected in this way, if something goes wrong in the digestive system for example, how there could be a pathway that leads to odours being produced or finding their way into the mouth other than through the bloodstream.

The internet is full of information like this, making quite convincing claims where true facts get twisted for the purpose of selling rubbish that won't do a thing.

Hey H,

As someone who working in general practice for a year as a dentist (before my hospital posts), I can confirm to you that calculus and plaques does indeed smell really bad.

In someone like yourself, who is hyper aware of oral hygiene and probably is very proficient at keeping the teeth clean, plaque doesn't have long to develop on the teeth. The initial colonizing bacteria eventually develop into a mature "climax community" but this can take a few days of zero oral hygiene to remove them. Maybe this is a factor in determining how bad it smells? Also remember that the smell from plaque scraped from the teeth or from floss will only be detectable as it dries, when the volatile compounds are released into the air.

The lymphatics of the head and neck are mainly involved with draining excess tissue fluid from the tissues, similar to veins, but they return tissue fluid back to the circulation rather than blood depleted of oxygen. Given their role in draining rather than supplying the anatomy, I feel that they may not be as important in the aetiology of halitosis as all that. Having said that, Waldeyer's ring of lymphatic tissue at the back of the nose and throat (including the tonsils) are important lymph nodes and they still have relevance to halitology where tonsolitis and tonsoliths are concerned.

Internet is an amazing tool, but it is also a tool for people who want to exploit desperate people like people in this forum and make a quick buck with scam products. A good place to read formal scientific research is http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

take care

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:31 pm

Hey do,
thanks for the reply..
What you say about plaque makes sense because my nephews never normally have bad breath, but if they skip brushing for a day or two their breath begins to start to smelling and progressively gets worse each day. The smell goes as soon as they brush their teeth, indicating that it must be the plaque they've removed. The odour is never horrendous, and it's only noticable at close-range.

Thanks for that link too. I'm sure I've searched for things and found results on google that linked to that website plenty of times. I have it bookmarked now and will have a good look around in my spare time.