Bad Breath Cause and Cure?

[alexmarison]

I have bb, a very good sense of smell, and some pride. Therefore, I see my problem and desperately want to do something about it. I haven't, of course, always had bb. It began in high school, but it still wasn't that bad back then. I had many cavities by the time I was in H.S.; and that is probably also when my wisdom teeth first started to come in. By the time I was in my early 20's, my wisdom teeth were impacted and my bb was worse. I am in my early 30's now, still havn't been able to see a dentist since early H.S., and I can assure you that there is a form of bb that comes from bad teeth. This is sort of a bacterial bb. I do not think a tooth problem has to be glaring to be able to cause a problem. For instance, with me, it was just the beginning impaction which caused no pain or discomfort that did it: the problem was that it created pockets in my gums around my molars which were not rinsing well, whether with saliva, water, or mouthwash. It was in these pockets that bacteria would teem. I can even taste it now when I go into those pockets with my tongue - and it is horrible. But, since I am not in thriving pain from it, an oral surgeon may tell me there is no urgent need for surgery for my impactions. Certain, strong gums can help this form of bb, if it is not too serious, yet; but, even if you are lucky enough to find a gum that works for you, you probably only have minutes, after you spit it out or it just wears out in your mouth, until bb is back.

But there is another form of bb, which I can also speak to. This comes from eating malodorous foods, like onions, garlic, cumin, fish, etc.. These problem foods form sulfur compunds in the body which are emitted through the mouth, nose, pores, urine, and stool. This form of bb is unrelated to the one above and, so far, there is no cure for it. No amount of brushing, rinsing, or gum can help this odor, because it comes from within the body, and is constantly being pumped out, as it were.

I have not always had this form of bb, either; and have been able to witness it become progessively worse. For the past 2 years, I have been looking for a cure: I have done a lot of study, thinking, praying, and experimentation. I think I finally have it, although, honestly, I don't even have the money to test it out, as cheap as that would be. But I will tell you anyway, since it might help you: in a word, it is vitamin D.

I believe I have vitamin D deficiency, like surprisingly many Americans do these days, I read. But there is a relatively cheap and easy to determine this with a home test kit. I encourage you for the sake of science to take this test, if you have this form of bb, or at least to just start taking vitamin D supplemets, and see if they really work. The vitamin D should be D3, that is, cholecalciferol, and not D2, which is very common and called ergocalciferol. (D3 has greater bioavailability.) I would also recommend at least 20,000 IU/day (with food) to start. However, once a deficiency is erased, 10,000-20,000 IU/day is probably sufficient. (Please keep mind that they say 50,000 IU/day for 1 month will cause vitamin D poisoning.) Give the vitamin D about a week to work, so that full assimulation and equalibrium can occur, because it goes through many transformations in the body, even though there is evidence that all the bioactive forms of vitamin D effectively metabolize sulfur compunds.

Good luck and let me know if this helps you.

[danger]

i am a bit confused by your post. do you still have your impacted wisdom teeth or have you had them taken out?

[alexmarison]

i am a bit confused by your post. do you still have your impacted wisdom teeth or have you had them taken out?

I do still have my impacted wisdom teeth and several cavities that have long lost there filings: I haven't had the money to see a dentist (or oral surgeon) in 18 years - and my teeth were bad then. Regular brushing has helped keep the problem with my cavities from getting out of hand and my wisdom teeth have not pushed very far up, but my bb has gotten progressively worse - and this is due to the increasing deformation of my gums, behind my lower molars where my widom teeth are coming in. Pockets and grooves have formed where once (a long time ago) my gums were perfectly smooth. This has created safe havens for bacteria from which it is nearly impossible to rinse it away, whether with saliva, water, or mouthwash.

The problem is that, even if I got my wisdom teeth removed and any impaction corrected, the damage has still been done to my gums - they still may contain the pockets and grooves that allow bacteria to grow and fester. (Perhaps surgery may even leave more holes and grooves.)

The solution to this form of bb would be a new kind of operation, specifically to smooth out the gums. For now, I use gum and listerine for this kind of bb, however ineffecive those things are becoming as my problem gets worse; but for the other form of bb, there is nothing out there.

If I were able to obtain the funding, I would develope and test my ideas for cures myself, but I am dirt poor. But I hope you can benefit from them.

[halitosisux]

You must have other serious problems. Maybe BB isnt such a big deal for you? I cant comprehend how money alone could stop you when you know all of this. If there is a will, there is always a way. There are people on this site who have tried so hard and for so long and still cant see any light at the end of the tunnel. Not sure about anyone else, but I find your story insulting.

[alexmarison]

You must have other serious problems. Maybe BB isnt such a big deal for you?...Not sure about anyone else, but I find your story insulting.

I still have bb, although I have a good hypothysis, I think, as to what the cure is. Bb affects my life greatly - it is very difficult to withstand the embarrassment and guilt of being with people, whether with friends, at work, or, even, in Church. In fact, I don't go out with friends if I can avoid it, and my bb makes it that much harder for me to find a job these days - a few times it was so bad I was even tempted to not go to Church; but I go every day to Mass - I just sit as far away from others as I can. I like to sing, too, but I can hardly practice this in public.

On top of all my problems with bb, I also have acne and oily skin. I have searched for and found, I think, an effective treatment for this, too. I've researched my treatment theory extensively and have written a scientific paper on the subject. It involves lowering blood cholesterol (lipoprotein) levels, which are the pool that supplies the sebaceous glands in their manufacture of sebum or skin oil. As you might guess, lowering cholesterol might indirectly help acne, but it is the direct treatment for metabolic syndrome and heart disease and the major method of prevention for heart attack and stroke. The wonderful part of my theory, if it is right, is the way I propose to lower lipoprotein levels: with lipoprotein lipse (LPL), as it naturally occurs in milk. But you can't get the benefit of LPL from market milk, because it is pasteurized, and the heat of pasteurization is sufficient to completely destroy its activity. One must drink non-pasteurized or "raw" milk. There are actually a handful of States left that have not outlawed the retail sale of raw milk, but I live far from them, so I can't even use this cure of mine, either. For the past two years, since I wrote my paper on the subject, I tried to contact and call doctors, professors, scientists, businessmen, companies, venture capitalists, etc.. Nothing; no one will get invloved; no one even seems inerested in my theory.

The cure I propose for the 2 forms of bb is a relaively recent inspiration: I do not have a paper on it, nor have I done the study and research necessary, yet, to write something scientific and worhy of scholarly review. But I wrote what I did on this forum, because taking vitamin D (for that one form of bb) is something simple, safe, and easy to try, and it could, potentially, end a lot of suffering, since most people can afford Vitamin D supplements. And I included my hypothesis about the other form of bb, even though I can't give a detailed method for correcting the problem, in order to give hope to others, that a cure could be right around the cornor, and, also - since I know many are themselves searching for the cure - to offer them another idea to consider. Many people have proposed that bacterial bb, if you will, is related to tooth and gum health, but no one, to my knowledge, has ever suggested reshaping and smoothing out the gums in order to specifically address the problem.

You are right in saying that it seems like I have other problems besides bb, which, make my bb seem like it's not a big deal - but this is by no means because my bb problem is not serious. It has become my biggest physical problem, surpassing even my oily skin and acne. Also uncomfortable to you might be that I don't display in my writing the self-loathing and desperation you are accustomed to reading on these forums. But this is because of the strength and confidence I have gained through prayer and from the grace of God. Perhaps my offerring of this cure doesn't seem genuine to you, especially since I can't vouch for it. I can only say I truly do want to find the cure for myself and others and I desire with all my heart an end to this condition in the world.

I am sincerely sorry, though, for offending you. Please believe it was the last thing I wanted to do. Please forgive me.

[halitosisux]

Hi, I'm sorry. I read your post(s) very quickly this morning and I became irritated because certain things you said stood out more than others and I feel bad with what I've said, now that I've just read back.
I just found it so staggering that the way you describe your situation and that you know your gums could be the SOLE reason for your BB - that BB is destroying your life - and you say its money that's preventing you for all these years. It made me think you have other issues which are at the root of your problem, and BB and your other shackles are just a branch of this.

I wasnt offended at all, I just felt I needed to say something, probably just to hear more and try to further understand you.

[alexmarison]

I wasnt offended at all, I just felt I needed to say something, probably just to hear more and try to further understand you.

np, I probably needed to say more. Feel free to ask more, too - you and anyone else.

[alexmarison]

I see someone already voted "no". But you have to give this treament at least several days, because vitamin D takes some time to be processed in the body. I just posted this a day or two ago, so I wouldn't expect any results this soon.

Remember, also, this is not for bacterial or dental related bb, but for that "garlic" breath, which comes mainly from the lungs.

If it works, it works - if not, I still would like to know so I can continue searching.

[alexmarison]

I am reducing the dosaging I recommended in the first post. There I said "at least 20,000 IU/day" to start, leveling off at "10,000-20,000 I/U/day."

Now, I say, at most, 10,000 IU/day to start; and to level off at, as an upper limit, 5,000-10,000 IU/day.

I am making this change because i was finally able to buy a bottle of Vitamin D3 supplements (2,000 IU capsules), took 8,000 IU at once, and, a few hours later, I may have felt some symptoms of overdose. They were not too serious: my mouth was dry and I felt very flush.

About two weeks ago, someone I knew, who takes prescription Vitamin D3 supplemets (10,000 IU/day, tablets ) gave me 3 tablets which they had left over. I took one a day for three consecutive days; I remember having similar symptoms, though I was less sure then they were related to my vitamin D intake.

Someone else I know also takes prescription vitamin D3, but 50,000 IU tablets, once a week. I also read somewhere (a study cited in the wikipedia article on vit. D) that staying in the sun, in a bathing suit, long enough to just start turning red is like a shot of 10,000-25,000 IU of vitamin D.

So I am not sure why I feel like I do, but as a precaution, I am lowering my dosage recommendation by at least half. But, I will also add that the onion which unfortunately happened to be on my breath from the day before seemed to go away rather quickly - at least the brunt of it - with my first dose. However, I am going to wait till I've been taking vit. D for a while before I purposely test it with raw garlic.

[halitosisux]

Hi Alexmarison,
I have a relative who suffers with osteoporosis and they are on calcium and vitamin D supplement to strengthen bones. They are given in a combined tablet called CALCEOS and the vitamin D is essential for the absorption of the calcium. In elderly people I am presuming this is generally because they may have a tendency to be deficient in vitamin D.

I have a tube of the tablets with me and on the side it states that it contains 10mcg (micrograms?) of colecalciferol (400 IU Vit D3) . The tablets are twice-a-day so that's almost 1000 IU of VIT D3.

I am just wondering whether or not you believe 1000 IU (which is the amount determined that a deficient elderly person would probably require to ensure they are not deficient of D3) would be enough to make a difference or any kind of impact regarding the theory you've described.

I'd like to experiment with this because I cant eat garlic without making my breath of it hours later. I dont mind AT ALL having garlic breath, but I would like to see whether your theory works because its an important insight to find out more.

[alexmarison]

I am just wondering whether or not you believe 1000 IU would be enough to make a difference or any kind of impact regarding the theory you've described.

I'd like to experiment with this because I cant eat garlic without making my breath of it hours later. I dont mind AT ALL having garlic breath, but I would like to see whether your theory works because its an important insight to find out more.

Hi Hal,
There are basically 4 kinds of people when it comes to garlic breath tolerance: some can eat raw garlic and not smell any different than if they had eaten a slice of bread; in others you can detect a hint of garlic when just eaten raw, though it is not an offensive smell and it readily washes out of their mouth with other food or drink. Then, there are some who, if they were to eat garlic, will smell of it and it is a slightly offensive smell that does not readily wash out and is especially noticeable, for instance, when they talk loudly or laugh; but, by the time they wake up the next day and brush their teeth, it is gone. Finally, there are those who cannot even smell garlic without it infusing into their lungs and making every breath they take offensive for days and, in extremely serious cases, even weeks.

Therefore, if a vitamin D deficiency is the underlying problem, then any amount of vit. D taken will improve garlic breath. Vit. D deficiency comes very simply, most of the time, from a lack of sun exposure. The body manufactures its own vitamin D in the skin with energy from the sun's rays (UVB). The lighter one's skin is, the less exposure he needs; the darker one's is, the more sun exposure he needs to make a sufficient amount of D, because skin pigment is a natural sunblock.

As for me, I am medium colored (Latino), but, in my entire adult life (the past 14 years), I have never worn shorts (outside) and I wear long sleeves as often as I can. Whether or not it is what causes my garlic breath, I think it is safe to say that I am vit. D deficient.

Very fair-skinned people need only to expose their face to sun everyday, without having to redden it, to get plenty of vit. D.

Therefore, how much vit. D supplementation one could use depends on a couple of factors. A simple blood test can determine this and home test kits are out there. But I am hoping that a garlic test will work too.

[alexmarison]

Hi,
This is my third day on vitamin D supplements for my severe susceptibility to garlic breath. I haven't had any major tests yet. I will test myself in a week or so, but I will probably be offered food with a good amount of garlic and onion before then (which I religiously avoid preparing for myself).

I am taking 4,000 IU, after breakfast and dinner (8,000/day). I haven't had the dry mouth or flushing like this, the way I had after I took 8,000 IU at once on the first day.

I will keep you posted.

I will also share with you that vitamin D is my third guess at a cure. My first one, after a lot of research into the chemistry and biochemistry of the problem, was zinc. I considered other vitamins and minerals, but zinc seemed the most probable answer. When I first started taking it, I thought it could be improving my condition, but in the end I was not saisfied with the results. If vitamin D turns out to be the correct solution, my initial false readings of some benefit from zinc will have had more to do with the sun I was getting at the time, since it was summer and I happened to be outside a great deal, then (although still not exposing much skin).

My second choice and guess was vitamin C. This was about two months ago. I found that this did not work, either. I defintely did have a vitamin C deficiency and the chemistry suggested that it did neutralize garlic and oinion odors, since it helps remove those smells from your hands, for instance, after cutting them. Furthermore, vitamin C does deposit in the lungs in relatively high concentrations. Still, it did not work at all.

So, I started to think of other vitamins I might be deficient in. (The answer - I had deduced from a number of considerations - had to be this simple.) Vitamin D immediately came to mind, again - and looking it up more intently this time, in terms of its biochemistry, and after a lot of searching, I was able to theorize a way in which it might work.

Not knowing when I would be able to test it myself, due to a lack of funds, I decided to tell you guys about it, because I was becoming more and more certain that it could be the answer and it is such a safe and simple thing to try. As luck would have it, I've since been able to exchange the unopened vitamin C supplements I recently bought for vitamin D!

So, we'll see.

[caramiamine98]

I've been taking vitamin D3 for a while now although not as much as you recommended (400IU). I take a lot of supplements so I'm not sure how well it works on it’s own.

There are other supplements that are supposed to help with breath and body odours like activated charcoal, copper chlorophyllin, cal-mag, vitamin B1, B6, B12, and biotin besides the ones already mentioned. (vitamin C, zinc). I have found these to be helpful for me. Hope this helps. Cheers. C

[alexmarison]

There are other supplements that are supposed to help with breath and body odours

As you say, there are many dietary and herbal supplement sellers out there that make "unsubstantiated" claims for their products. Garlic breath is pretty straightforward, biochemically speaking - sulfides are not being dealt with inside the body and, so, they are available to pass outside the body at every opportunity, in particular through the lungs with every breath. What is it that is supposed to deal with these sulfides that garlic breath sufferers don't have enough of?

The most plausible scenario is that the simple and common enough problem of garlic breath has a simple and common solution, although one which has not yet been discovered.

Let us not complicate things before we exhaust this line of reasoning by saying, for instance: this cocktail of supplements will cure garlic breath for John, that one works well for Jane, and another one does something for Tom - and one will work for you too, just mix and match from all the things for which there is claim that it is the true cure until you hit upon something you respond to. Such an approach to trying to find a cure is unreasonable, unscientific, will not advance our cause one bit, and will reward the snake oil salesmen.

Another way of looking at this problem is to look at the greater number of human beings that make up the human race who don't suffer from garlic breath. How does their diet differ from those relatively few who are susceptible to garlic breath? Do they all go around secretly eating copper and charcoal? No, I don't think so - the difference between us is a little more subtle than that and, sometimes, even not apparent. I believe that us garlic-breath sufferers have a certain, common deficiency, as well as, in some cases, a certain genetic predisposition that makes us more susceptible to this specific deficiency..

Cara, it sounds like what you takes works for you, if you ever did suffer from garlic breath, though you don't say. But if you did, and what you take now truly does prevent it, I would atribute it, according to my research so far, to the vitamin D. If what you are taking is helping, but has not completely cured you so far, try increasing your vitamin D intake. See if that works. That is the point of my post: it for those who are suscpetible to some degree of garlic breath, to suggest to them a dosage schedule of vitamin D3 for their complete and total cure.

[alexmarison]

I've been on vitamin D3 supplements, 8,000 IU/day, for almost a week, now.

Had first major test yesterday evening when over at a friends for dinner, who likes to cook with a lot of garlic, and did. I believe the D3 helped, a lot. This morning, I detected hardly any garlic on my breath, whereas, before these supplements, I would have smelled garlic strongly on my breath for a least a few days from such a meal as I had. And even what I did detect, this morning, may be attributable to my other problem of bacterial bb, which comes from the crevices and pockets in my gums that bacteria get trapped in. This problem, I am sure, contributes to a garlic smell coming from my mouth after eating it, but with a couple of thorough brushings, maybe some listerine, or good gum, the mouth odor I can get rid of, at least long enough to see if there is anything coming from my lungs, which is where problem garlic breath odor comes from. A day after this past test, I think the garlicy sulfides are compleely out of my system.

However, to be sure this is not a placebo effect, I withhold judgement on D3's efficacy at this point, and will continue to take my supplements. Furthermore, a cure should allow me to eat a substantial amount of raw garlic without an offensive odor emanataing from me afterwards, and I'm pretty sure I am not at that point, yet.

20-29 days are given for vitamin D's half-life, in vivo (wikipedia). Someone I know, is prescribed to take 10,000 IU/day of D3. If the average daily take is, say, 10,000 IU/day, then, at any given time, the body contains about 400,000-600,000 IU of D3. I've been taking about 8,000 for the past 5 days or so, totaling an addition to my body of about 40,000 IU. Considering I was very deficient in D3 before I started supplementation, I do not think I am anywhere near 400,000-600,000 range, yet. So, I will give myself at least few weeks before I expect to be able to take on raw garlic. Then, I should really find out if this works.

But, so far so good.