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Clasification of malodor

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aydinmur
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Clasification of malodor

Post by aydinmur »

According to me (1) , there are 5 types of malodor:

Type-1 halitosis takes origin from tongue dorsum. Foods are turned aromatic-volatil compounds by anaerobic bacteria between papillae.

Type-2 halitosis takes origin around oral cavity. Paranasal sinuses, Waldeyer's lymphoid ring, retronasal mucosa, oropharynx etc.

Type-3 halitosis takes origin from gastrointestinal canal. Reflux, H. pylori gastritis, bacterial over growth, malabsorptions, gut and colon diseases.

Type-4 halitosis takes origin from blood gases. Many catabolic substances leave the body via renal or hepatic ways. If liver and/or kidneys can not truely filter them, this catabolic waste may resolve in blood plasm and enter to systemic blood circulation. Lungs try to filter and exhale them via breath. They may have a bad odor. This causes bad breath.

Type-5 halitosis is psychologic.


References:
1. Aydın Murat. [Halitosis, from diagnosis to therapy]. Nobel Tıp Kitap evi, Istanbul, 2008. http://www.aydinmur.com/akkitabi.html
2. http://aydinmur.com/agizkokusu.html


halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

Hi aydinmur, more questions relating to this if I may:-

Is the type 1 halitosis fully understood, i.e. is there always a primary underlying reason for it such as a dental or sinus problem, or in some cases is the cause unknown or due to more complex reasons?

The kind of problems that would cause the type 4 halitosis, would a person be aware of the type of hepatic or renal issues that would allow a situation like this to occur and if not would a person be able to have such issues diagnosed by standard blood tests?

I had a thought this morning - do you think its possible that a person who has a lot of PND could end up with halitosis purely because of the fact that the PND is being swallowed, rather than the standard assumption that the excessive bacterial activity on the back of the tongue is due to the area being bathed in more than usual amounts of mucus.
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Post by aydinmur »

halitosisux wrote:...snip... Is the type 1 halitosis fully understood, i.e. is there always a primary underlying reason for it such as a dental or sinus problem, or in some cases is the cause unknown or due to more complex reasons?
Neither mechanism nor reasons of the Type 1 halitosis is enough clear. I would like to share an experiment from literature (Kleinberg I, 1999): Saliva taken from halitosis patients divided into its sediment and supernatant with it is centrifuged in a test tube. Its interesting that halitosis completely disappears in supernatant tube while sediment tube have a minimal bad odor. Then, halitosis suddenly appears after both fractions of saliva were joined in one tube. However this time, halitosis is measured in a lesser amount than its inital level. This shows us (1) intact saliva have bad odor if that person have type 1 halitosis, (2) serum proteins, molecular constituents of saliva (supernatant) have not bad odor if they are not together with bacterial and epithelial cells. (3) there is at least one more factor that affects on halitosis except proteins and bacteria, judging by rejoined fractions have lesser amount of halitosis than initial level.
There are a lot of undiscovered mechanisms here.

The kind of problems that would cause the type 4 halitosis, would a person be aware of the type of hepatic or renal issues that would allow a situation like this to occur and if not would a person be able to have such issues diagnosed by standard blood tests?
Largest percentage of type 4 persons are not aware about their situations because of they are subclinic. They usually have not any visible symptom. Unfortunately I dont know what blood tests should perform in such cases. Personally If I suscept from type 4 halitosis complete check up including serum amino acid chromatography is advisible. Usually some evidence may be obtained by this analyses.

...snip... that a person who has a lot of PND could
I dont know what PND is. I cannot folow abreviations used here . PND, TMAU, BB, PPT, BBI and dozens. My English is not super.
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Post by KeepTrying09 »

aydinmur wrote:I dont know what PND is. I cannot folow abreviations used here . PND, TMAU, BB, PPT, BBI and dozens. My English is not super.
PND - Post Nasal Drip
TMAU - Trimethylaminuria (otherwise known as fish odor syndrome)
BB - Bad Breath
PPT - No idea
BBI - No idea

I just wanted to say it's a pleasure reading your posts and having you here as a member aydinmur. The fact that you are an oral microbiologist who is researching on ways to help those with bad breath just speaks volumes. Too bad there aren't more of you in the world. Lord knows it would be nice if there were a couple thousand of you running around. :)
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Post by halitosisux »

Hi Aydinmur, I am trying to understand the first point you made. Are you saying that saliva in type 1 smells before it even enters the mouth? Or is there always a bacterial role that ends up causing saliva to smell bad once it enters the mouth.

As far as I am aware, in TMAU (Trimethylaminuria - fish odour syndrome) the saliva that enters the mouth already contains small quantities of Trimethlyamine, which further exacerbates the odour being exhaled from the lungs. And since TMAU isnt the only defective enzyme related disorder, there could be other similar mechanisms which lead to the "pure" saliva becoming odourous.

Sorry if I have completely misunderstood what you've said, but I would like to understand this.

Are the types of bad breath from hepatic or renal issues easily distinguishable from other types of bad breath? For instance, I know that diabetes can cause a sweet smelling breath that is instantly recognisable.

PND is excessive mucus production in the nose which runs down into the throat.
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Post by halitosisux »

whoops KT, I replied without noticing you'd already replied
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Post by KeepTrying09 »

halitosisux wrote:whoops KT, I replied without noticing you'd already replied
No worries mate :). You had some pretty interesting questions in your post. I'm eager to hear the response.
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Post by aydinmur »

halitosisux wrote:..snip..Are you saying that saliva in type 1 smells before it even enters the mouth?
Definitely yes.
Saliva taken from persons who have type-1 halitosis, smels bad. Because volatil gases are capable of resolve in his saliva.

Are the types of bad breath from hepatic or renal issues easily distinguishable from other types of bad breath?
Its difficult to distinguish type 4 cases from the other types. However, I can distinguish type 1 cases from others with apply zinc chloride solution on his/her tongue dorsum. If his/her halitosis sharply decreases under 20% of initial halitometric level then I can truely estimate (s)he is a type 1 case.
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Post by aydinmur »

KeepTrying09 wrote: I just wanted to say it's a pleasure reading your posts and having you here as a member aydinmur. The fact that you are an oral microbiologist who is researching on ways to help those with bad breath just speaks volumes. Too bad there aren't more of you in the world. Lord knows it would be nice if there were a couple thousand of you running around. :)

Many thanks dear Keep Trying 09,
There are more scentists I know member of this forum. I know one of them from his publications those are mostly on type 2 halitosis.

I have recently worked on a zinc containing rinse. It contains Zinc Chloride + acide borique. You know acide borique is also used for foot odor. I have developed a formula with no sugar, no sweetener, no deodorant, no herbal, no alcohol. Its effective ONLY type 1 cases. http://cozumilac.com/pharmolzn/

I have given this formula to a pharmacy company as a gift, without money. Yes. You arent misreading. I have taken zero money :-)

Today, my rinse is being used by people with a great success. Since February-2010, every day some people call me with telephone or email in order to thank to me. This honor is my fee.
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Post by me »

is there any research being made for type 3 and 4 cases?? By personal expirience is my opinion that those of us whoes breath and nose exhale smells like poop is probably cause by either case type 3 or 4.
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Post by Renato »

Hi ayidnur

Accordingy to your halitosis classification, I would say to have the type 3, which end up in type -1, too.

I'm lactose and fructose intolerant, so I may have overgrowth of bacteria in intestines. I experience a silent reflux. SO the fluids in my mouth cause the halitosis type-1. Very white tongue with bad odor.

[I would like to share an experiment from literature (Kleinberg I, 1999): Saliva taken from halitosis patients divided into its sediment and supernatant with it is centrifuged in a test tube. Its interesting that halitosis completely disappears in supernatant tube while sediment tube have a minimal bad odor. Then, halitosis suddenly appears after both fractions of saliva were joined in one tube. However this time, halitosis is measured in a lesser amount than its inital level. This shows us (1) intact saliva have bad odor if that person have type 1 halitosis, (2) serum proteins, molecular constituents of saliva (supernatant) have not bad odor if they are not together with bacterial and epithelial cells. (3) there is at least one more factor that affects on halitosis except proteins and bacteria, judging by rejoined fractions have lesser amount of halitosis than initial level.
There are a lot of undiscovered mechanisms here.]

Respect to this, I think that the supernatant, which have the protein rich fraction is needed for bacteria in the sediment fraction to grow and cause the bad odor gases. Perhaps, when combining both fraction back in a test tube the bad odor level is not as the initial, just because the anaerobic bacteria do not survive longer in aerobic conditions. Anaerobic bacteria, the BB causing agent, is adopted to live in low oxigen concentration tissues, as in deep areas of the tongue.

[/quote]
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Post by aydinmur »

Renato wrote:Respect to this, I think that the supernatant, which have the protein rich fraction is needed for bacteria in the sediment fraction to grow and cause the bad odor gases. Perhaps, when combining both fraction back in a test tube the bad odor level is not as the initial, just because the anaerobic bacteria do not survive longer in aerobic conditions. Anaerobic bacteria, the BB causing agent, is adopted to live in low oxigen concentration tissues, as in deep areas of the tongue.

With continuing the same experiment, bad odor reappears when cysteine is added on sediment tube.

This experiment describes SSS modeling for halitosis (SSS, Suspended Salivary Sediment), or called 3S model of type 1 halitosis.
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Post by aydinmur »

me wrote:is there any research being made for type 3 and 4 cases?? By personal expirience is my opinion that those of us whoes breath and nose exhale smells like poop is probably cause by either case type 3 or 4.

This journal focuses on breath gases. Some papers are free while somes are not.

Journal of Breath Research
http://iopscience.iop.org/1752-7163/

Hope helps
- Murat Aydýn
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Post by halitosisux »

Aydinmur, I'm not sure whether you understood my question on saliva, so just to be clear I'll ask it again.

In cases of level-1 halitosis, if pure saliva is taken before it mixes with oral surfaces and bacteria and chemicals etc, is it ever found to be odourous? My point being that if saliva (before entering the mouth) is already odourous, then surely that, and not bacterial activity inside the mouth, is responsible for the odour buildup on the tongue's surface.

If that is the case, as it is in TMAU, then this is an important point because that is where attention needs to be focused, into how and why the saliva is becoming odourous in the first place, before it even enters the mouth.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that my saliva only ever smelled bad once it entered my mouth. If I gathered my saliva by allowing to drip out of my saliva gland openings, it would never smell of anything - this was both before and after the cause of my BB was dealt with.

Also, its good to see that you have devised a simple way to identify whether a person is a type 1 case or not.
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Post by aydinmur »

halitosisux wrote: In cases of level-1 halitosis, if pure saliva is taken before it mixes with oral surfaces and bacteria and chemicals etc, is it ever found to be odourous?

Dear Halitosisux
There is not any study that aspirates saliva from glands to detect its odor. I dont know whether unsecreted saliva has an bad odor. I dont think it has bad odor because Type 1 halitosis is generated on tongue dorsum but not in gland parankim tissues. I dont know any situation that saliva is generated with have initial odor.

On the other hand, Trimethylaminuria disease is reason of Type 4 halitosis but not type 1 [/quote]
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