Zinc & Rinse

[aydinmur]

Dear frends,
Zinc compounds are very powerful guns for Type 1 halitosis. However, there is no good formulation belong zinc containing rinses.

I need your experiences about zinc containing rinses.

[halitosisux]

Hi Aydinmur, I can give you some feedback on this. When I first heard of zinc's effectiveness many years ago, just out of curiousity I tried chewing a zinc citrate daily supplement tablet allowing it dissolve over my tongue and I was so amazed at its effect - probably better than anything I'd ever tried. This would last for many hours until new unaffected bacteria takes over. The only downside was a strange taste, like i'd just eaten an egg. But I know that was only a taste perception because during this time the odour on my tongue was greatly reduced. i dont know whether other types of zinc would have been more effective because I never tried any other types. I stopped using this after a while because of the altered taste in my mouth.

[NOTANYMORE]

Hello,

My morning breath disappeared after using "Smarthmouth Mouthwash". I still use it, even though I am "cured". I think it uses a zinc delivery system as it's main property. Anyway, it works.

[KeepTrying09]

A long time ago I used to use this mouthwash and toothpaste called Oxyfresh. The mouthwash was a zinc based mouthwash. They also had one with Zinc and Lemon, as they said lemon was pretty good at helping to alleviate bad breath.

It didn't really help me, but then again my bb wasn't orally related....Maybe it would help some people whose bb was orally related though.

[aydinmur]

By the way, zinc is weak antibacterial. It catchs sulphur gases and collapses them.

[Renato]

What is better, hydrogen peroxide or zinc based mouth washes?.

[aydinmur]

What is better, hydrogen peroxide or zinc based mouth washes?.

They are synergic. Use both but put a few minute between them. This is the best.

[halitosisux]

aydinmur, I would like to ask your opinion on something. Since BB for most people is level 1 - excessive bacterial activity on the tongue dorsum - if there was a way to reduce this down to a level that would bring odour below the threshold of perceptibility, then the problem would be effectively cured.

So far, the only thing that comes anywhere remotely close to achieving this (for some) is the use of antibiotics. But we all know that antibiotics are not the permanent solution, and we know why. Modern oral hygiene practices, scraping and mouthwashes etc are also quite effective, albeit only until odour starts to build up again, which for most people is about 20 minutes (so almost not worth bothering with).

Now, people wear braces and all kinds of orthodontic devices without too much fuss. I've mentioned this before on here, but as an oral microbiologist, I am wondering if there could be a way to produce a simple device that clips into place obscurely like a small brace, containing a small replaceable tablet (will come to that in a moment) that serves the function of subtlely and safely reducing bacterial levels throughout the day in a slow release controlled manner.

What makes this essentially different to other measures is that it isnt relying on the lasting effects a single-hit measure, such as a mouthwash does. Some people chew gum all day purely because it helps with saliva flow and flushing effect. But gum is sometimes unnacceptable (interviews, intimacy etc) leaving the person exposed.

I have no clue what the tablet could be comprised of. Maybe some kind of zinc or silver? I hear all the time what natural products exist that work wonders against bacteria, fungus and odours etc. Surely there has to be a way to do this. I know if something like this existed while I needed it, I'd have killed for one.

In my teens when I used to have girlfriends I'd keep a piece of gum inside my cheek, and some of them used to realise this and they thought I was deranged. But even people who dont have BB use mouthwashes and measures to prevent bad breath, and something like this brace could catch on and become standard for everyone who wants to feel confident about their breath. Whoever could make such a thing successful could also get rather wealthy in the process.

I know its not the most ideal solution, but its a small price to pay to have your life back.

[aydinmur]

...snip... I have no clue what the tablet could be comprised of. Maybe some kind of zinc or silver? I hear all the time what natural ...snip..

Interesting. !
You are writing above lines as if you know what Im currently working on.

Look at 3 pics on my web site:
http://agizkokusu.net/garbage/untit03.jpg Watch battery is embedden into an acrylic plaque including a simple electronic circuit that serves stabilise electric current to constant 15 DC uA.

http://agizkokusu.net/garbage/untit02.jpg Its thicknes is approx 4 mm.

http://agizkokusu.net/garbage/untit01.jpg Its dimensions approx 4 cmx 2cm

Halitosis patient takes this device in his mouth once a day for 10 min or so. Constant current generator delivers the electric current to tongue dorsum. Patient feels nothing but very little lemon taste during this 10 min. Thats enough for all day for type 1 cases.

This device disturbs anaerobic ecology of papillae but have not harmful effect on living mammalian tissues according to numerous scientific literatures.

Perhaps, in a future, this device will be produce as a little pill. Of course if I can continue to work on this device.

Dont apply this in your mouth ! I have not yet completed its safety analyses. Or, take your own risk.

By the way, Type 1 cases is very little portion of halitosis patients I saw.

[halitosisux]

I wish I could understand the Turkish language because a lot of your links look very interesting. I've never come across any research like this electrical device before. Fascinating to think that such a tiny electric current can have such an effect when scraping torching grinding stabbing the tongue doesnt make a dent on things for very long.

Such a lateral approach to solving this problem was more or less what I was thinking. When I mentioned tablets, I was thinking something that releases silver (for example) in an electrolytic way, or a chemistry that releases tiny amounts of hydrogen peroxide, but enough to bring the bacteria under control. Or even an antibacterial agent that simply dissolves slowly throughout the day, to be replaced daily or every few days. Or even HF Radio which wouldnt require direct contact with the tongue, a bit like the blue LEDs but without needing to be placed directly over the tongue surface. Ultrasonics too, like certain toothbrushes use to knock out debris and bacteria.

Do you know of anything that is being developed? I wish I knew more about microbiology to know what's possible.

[halitosisux]

Interesting that you say Type 1 cases are rare. Does this mean then, as in my own case with a wisdom tooth producing a foulness that caused my tongue to smell bad, that there is usually a source of odour other than the bacteria which reside within the tongue's surface?

The sinuses for instance, or the tonsils/adenoids.

Are type 1 cases usually because of the physical structure of the tongue? Such as the depth of the papillae? Or is there much more to it than that?

[aydinmur]

Interesting that you say Type 1 cases are rare.

Yes. I dont often see Type 1 halitosis. You well know, -every- halitosis patient uses modern oral hygiene practices, scraping and mouthwashes etc. According to my personal clinic experience, today, tongue odor is rare. Perhaps, I can not find type 1 case. Most probable that, type 1 cases are eliminated by my colleagues. Because my patients certainly visit at least 4-5 doctors before me.

Does this mean then, as in my own case with a wisdom tooth producing a foulness that caused my tongue to smell bad, that there is usually a source of odour other than the bacteria which reside within the tongue's surface?

Its difficult to know your specific medical conditions. Many mechanisms operate in mouth. Wisdom teeth are one of thousands, sometimes its is not as important as you think..

The sinuses for instance, or the tonsils/adenoids

Type 2 halitosis. It is not rare.

Are type 1 cases usually because of the physical structure of the tongue? Such as the depth of the papillae? Or is there much more to it than that?

Halitosisux,
The key of type 1 halitosis treatment is "ecology".

In order to treat a type 1 case, ecology of that mouth should be reorganized even if every filling or crowns are seemed good. If ecology of mouth was enough corrected, then bacterial flora will leave that place without fighting microbes. Because reduction potantial enhances, bacterial adesins (glues) are disintegrated, coagregation bridges between commensal families are broken, anaerobism is lost, interactions and communications betwen flora partners are disappeared. Exoenzymes, antigenic determinants, toxins, immunogenic secretions from bacterial cells are lost.

Ecologic treatment is permanent. Antiseptics are transient. If ecologic correction is not possible or it is difficult, zinc containing products may help, but not antiseptics.

[aydinmur]

I've never come across any research like this electrical device before. ...snip...When I mentioned tablets, I was thinking something that releases silver (for example) in an electrolytic way, or a chemistry that releases tiny amounts of hydrogen peroxide, but enough to bring the bacteria under control. Or even an antibacterial agent that simply dissolves ...snip...

I dont support the idea slow releasing antibacterial chemicals.
In my study, Electrically scattered silver metal into the tooth tissues has changed ecology of the root canal. I have published these findings: http://www.aydinmur.com/depozisyon.pdf
My doctora thesis is "silver anode treatment on dental abscess". I have treated 44 of 58 dental abscess with silver electrodes without antibiotic. My mean, ecologic correction causes disappearing of pathologic flora and ultimately healing.

*if* Any chemical substance doesnt alter ecology of problematic tissue, it may not be first choice for treatment.

[hoping]

Hi, Aydinmur

Is there any supplement that can lessen the odor from Type 4 Halitosis? For instance, activated charcoal and chlorophyll? If yes, what is the best time to take activated charcoal and chlorophyll? For instance, right before meal/ right after meal/ in between meals?

Thanks.

[halitosisux]

Aydinmur, thankyou for the detailed reply. Lots to think about. My interpretation of what you are basically trying to explain is that in type 1 cases, once any abnormal situation is resolved (such as a dental problem) the microbial ecology will always return to normal, leading to the subject no longer having what would be considered to be a halitosis problem.

This sounds exactly what happened in my case. Also, even before I had any wisdom teeth issues, my oral hygiene was very much neglected and I think that's why I had BB during this time. I think some people (including myself) are simply more susceptible to a given situation to end up having BB. This, I think, is why some people can get away with neglecting their teeth and never seem to have BB.

I will have a closer read of your silver anode abscess treatment tomorrow. It looks very interesting.