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Is Halitosis Hereditary?
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Phantasist
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Joined: 21 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:29 pm    Post subject: Is Halitosis Hereditary? Reply with quote

Does anyone think halitosis could be hereditary? My mother always had an odor on her breath and I strongly suspect that I inherited this from her. How could this be? Here is my theory: People who don't have bad breath have a component in their saliva that inhibits the anaerobic bacteria that live on the tounge. No matter what they eat or if they brush their teeth, they will never have bad breath. Those of us who have this affliction are missing this ingredient in our saliva due to a genetic defect. This allows an overgrowth of the anaerobic bacteria, which are practically impossible to get rid of, because they reproduce faster than we can kill them. This would explain why we cannot get rid of BB no matter what we do. It would also explain why the coating on our tounge comes back within a few hours after we scrape it off. Saliva is in our mouths constantly, but antibacterial mouthwash can't be, so as soon as we spit it out, the bacteria go back to work. It is a losing battle. If it is a genetic defect, the doctors wouldn't know about it, because since no scientific research has been done on this, the particular genetic defect responsible for the missing component in our saliva has not been discovered.
Does anyone think this theory might be correct, or am I reaching too far?
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halitosisux
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I resigned myself for years that my bb had to be hereditary. My mother also had BB for as long as I could remember, until a few years ago she had to have all her teeth out - and no more BB. She was always so busy she never had time for herself, so she didnt look after her teeth very well, and didnt teach her children very well on such matters either. But it was really from this realization that I started to wonder if maybe im not cursed for life afterall. And then I was lucky to stumble upon a cause and eventually got it dealt with.

As far as i know, saliva contains an enzyme called lysozyme. This is found in mucus and tears and other secretions too and its also contained in egg white. It acts on the cell walls of certain types of bacteria. Its just one part of the immune system.

I think if there were some missing ingredient in saliva or mucus to cause BB in some people, it certainly would not be a case of it not having been discovered or there having been no research into this. And a person can go from being BB free to having BB if there is some ecological reason for bacterial overgrowth to occur, and "normal" saliva wont be able to protect in such a situation.

I used to think that BB free people must have some component in their saliva protecting them. But I've seen plenty of people who never had BB suddenly develop it. So whatever might have been protecting them before, it certainly wasnt protecting them any longer.

Saliva is rich in oxygen and in a healthy normally hydrated mouth, this will keep the anaerobic bacteria (which are the type of bacteria which usually cause BB) under control.

A healthy mouth contains around 10 times as many bacteria as there are people on the earth. Keep it in perspective. Every mouth smells and its a very fine line between becoming someone who produces perceptible BB odours, to being someone who doesnt.

I think that unless there is a problem affecting the ecology of the areas of microbial population, BB is either due to TMAU or something very closely relating to it.

All tongues have some coating. People with BB are just noticing it more because of the stench there. They then start scraping it and doing things to this delicate surface which only perpetuates the situation. Tongue coating is there for a reason and actually serves a number of important purposes. Unfortunately if you have BB then this coating serves to make the situation worse.
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Phantasist
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Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 489

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halitosisux,
Thank you for your detailed response to my post. You make some very good points, which all sound logical, but I still have my doubts.
1) My mother lost all her teeth in later life and wore dentures, however she still had an odor on her breath, so her teeth could not have been the cause.
2) I'm not so sure that a genetic defect concerning the composition of saliva would have been discovered. DNA structure is extremely complicated and a single letter out of place could cause a genetic defect. Also, do you know of any research scientist even doing research on this?
3) You say that some people have suddenly developed BB when they didn't have it before. In my experience I have never come across that. All the people I have ever known either have BB or they don't.
One final question: Are you saying that you have actually cured your bad breath?
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halitosisux
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanx Phantasist, I read every single post and you've made some good points yourself. I like it when people are willing to debate matters such as this one.

On the subject, unless dentures are throughly sterilized, they can cause BB - even if they dont smell at all outside the mouth. This might be a possibility for your mother's continuing BB, but its more likely that its nothing to do with it.

My opinion on saliva is that if there were differences in the saliva between people who have BB compared to those who dont, its those difference which would surely come to light. I agree with you that genetic differences will have an effect on enzyme production/immune system etc, but the composition of saliva is quite well understood and the mechanisms are not all that complex to be incomprehensible enough for situations that might cause BB to be overlooked.

I dont know of any ongoing research or research scientists looking into this problem in particular, but there are plenty of quite extensive studies which have been made on the subject of halitosis, looking into all the various factors which might play a part, but yet unable to pinpoint anything conclusive in these incalcitrant cases of BB. You may be right though, saliva has such potential to be the culprit for many and this is something which I've always wondered.

I can sit here and think of several different people I know who have gone from having BB to being BB free - and also vice versa. And yes, I was lucky to find a glaringly obvious problem (in hindsight) with a wisdom tooth was the cause of my 25+ years of hell. I only realised I had a problem there when by chance I probed the area with a finger and realised the stench coming from it. I have a history of BB before this tooth could ever have caused me any problems, but I've now put that down to poor dental hygiene.
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JennyWilson
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Joined: 24 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:27 am    Post subject: Bad breath causes. You’re predisposed to it. Reply with quote

It gave me a real insight in how our bacterial makeup is formed. It's just part of the book but you'll get the idea of it.

YOU get your bacterial types form your mom! Yep when you’re born your bacteria free, those first few weeks with mom and you have your bacterial make up for life. You’ve been colonized! Call it the bacterial lottery. But in this lottery you can get a pass go card for all kinds of life’s ailments and a free ticket to all kinds of hell on earth like bad breath. But mostly mom gives you life saving bacteria. And not just any bacteria, your bacteria have been passed down through the great span of life on earth. Happily the very bad bacteria killed so well they ran out of hosts and went the way of the dodo. Or that’s what we hope.
Trying to self colonize your body after the age of about 6 months with bacteria you don’t already have is so difficult we just don’t try. Instead we use antibiotics to “hopefully” alter the balance of bacteria in our favour. And sometimes it works! But usually the bacteria find a way to become immune. Doctors deal with this problem by not talking about it. And it works so well that when people stop moving or “die” we can all say those conclusive timeless words ‘Death by Natural Causes’...
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halitosisux
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understanding how our microbial flora develops is one thing, but identifying what messes it up and how this relates to the disruption that it causes to the body, and then knowing how to correct it is the real question.

I dont know whether you saw this:-
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13micro.html?_r=4&pagewanted=1&ref=general&src=me

If this can happen then then I think this will end up being the key for many people on here. The cure for TMAU is likely to come from engineered flora designed to reduce the levels of TMA produced in the gut. The type of BB described by many on here may well be for similar related reasons as TMAU, and this might be the key.

It's obviously far simpler to deal with an unfavourable microbial situation in the mouth or even the nasal cavity because we have relatively easy access there and can quite easily identify problems, or problems which effect the ecology enough to cause proliferation and microbial overactivity. But in the gut its going to depend on scientists like this - Unless someone can think of a crude but safe DIY way to do it sooner.
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EazySlug
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Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should probably add my print to this post cause I myself always thought that my breath had a connection with my mum. Why? Because she stinks too, that's why...
And I'm as pessimistic on this subject as phantasis when he says that since bb problems are hereditary there is no cure to what is hereditary.
But suppose that the microbe involved in the process of bb happens to lack of something it needs to prospere in your body, like for instance sugar for candida, what if we just took if off from within us by simply not eating sugar??
Is it possible for an organism on earth to stay alive without eating? If you starved the microbe to death then once dead you have killed the cause of your bb even if you took it from your mother huh??
I don't know if it seems too childish but since I started a sugar-free diet barely 2 weeks ago I have witnessed so many changes, such as my tongue turning pink, the flow of my saliva increasing, etc.
Anyway, that's just my personal experience.
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aydinmur
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Friends,
Halitosis is neither congenital nor hereditary. But ecologic and predisposant factors may transmit from parent to child via allel genes.

For example, a father may have type 2 halitosis because there is congenital stenosis within his nasal passage. His child will depend on type 2 halitosis because of child's face bones look like his father's face bones.. Here the specifity transmitted from parent is not halitosis, but bone pattern. More examples can be given for type 1,3,4 halitsosis.

I would like to invite you think whether or not type 1 halitosis spread from one person to another with droplets or kissing.

- Murat Aydin
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Phantasist
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Joined: 21 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to remind everyone that my original post was about my theory that there might be a missing antibacterial component in our saliva due to an inherited genetic defect. This would explain a lot, but Halitosisux posted that I am completely wrong about that. I well could be, since it is only a theory.
Aydin Murat says that halitosis is not inherited, and then goes on to give an example where the cause of it is inherited. He also states that there are many more such examples.
EasySlug, I am not totally pessimistic. Eventhough I have suffered with this disgusting curse for decades, I have recently stumbled upon something which is giving me hope. I think you are on the right track about "starving" the anaerobic bacteria. But it isn't just sugar which is the culprit. It seems there are ingredients in most toothpastes and even mouthwashes that actually feed the bacteria. This would explain why the more we brush, the worse it gets. I will have more to say about this in a few days. I am experimenting on myself and need more time to evaluate the results.
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EazySlug
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you right on this point. Indeed toothpastes worsen the smell. That's why I don't use them anymore. I'm giving you some piece of advice that might help you: try and get the smoothest toothbrush you can find on pharmacies. They have toothbrushes for post-surgery brushing that rate like 7/100 compared to the normal kind that are about 40/100.
It's really soft you'll see. You won't need any toothpaste to be applied on it, only water. You put the toothbrush under the water as many times as needed during the brushing.
Give it a try and tell me what you think of it. No no... you welcome Speak to the hand
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smallmiracle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:42 pm    Post subject: yes, hereditary Reply with quote

hello, phantasist,

i think it is hereditary as well. i don't think it's a specific gene, but i do think it has hereditary origins. it has to, as it's about the body. my father has chronic halitosis and post-nasal drip (a very very stressed out guy), and my siblings have varying forms of halitosis, some worse than others. my mother does not, so i assume that the bb 'gene' is much more dominant. those who take after my mother in many ways (personality, looks) are not as afflicted. i take much after my dad genetically. my cousins on my mother's side of the family do not have bb. they can eat indian food and have fast recovery and it's like they were chewing on lettuce leaves, whereas i could brush my teeth or even eat a lettuce leaf, and i suffer from halitosis.

i assume that the onset of puberty and hormones have a huge effect, as this is the moment when i was aware of the problem. i remember sitting in a small room in 6th grade next to a boy and smelled something really bad. i looked over at him, and saw his mouth was just slightly ajar. he was two feet away, and i thought how odd and gross, i can smell his breath. but it was as though this triggered something in me because only a few months later, when i started experiencing puberty, i was suddenly conscious of my breath and waking up with a bad taste in my mouth. over the years it's gotten worse. i can't imagine that at age 12 your liver and intestinal heat (Chinese Medicine) is really out of whack by that point, producing bad breath. maybe so. but then if my cousins are eating red hot potato chips and beef jerky and taaang everyday -- shouldn't they have digestive heat issues?

i agree that there is something in the chemistry of the saliva, especially the absence of good bacteria which kill the bad odor causing bacteria - which for some reason is affected during puberty. i always wonder what causes some people (my lovers) to be able to drink alcohol and eat spicy foods and then 5 minutes later, the odor is gone. they have some healthy saliva.

i understand also that post-nasal drip and tonsil crypts may be an issue, but the theory of food just lodging in the crypts is not totally investigated, as there is something in the membranes within the crypts that is over-producing mucus. also, i have a couple friends with chronic nasal issues and post-nasal drip without bad breath. the good bacteria in their saliva are able to kill the bad bacteria that would feed on the mucus and cause bad breath.

people with healthy saliva can eat onions and garlic and coffee and it just smells like onions and garlic and coffee for a little while and then it goes away. so to tell someone with chronic issues to avoid these foods is moot. whatever they eat or consume, it'll smell like bad breath mixed with these foods. in fact, whatever i eat, people can smell it far away. it's like the bad bacteria engorging themselves amplify the scent of the food (whether it's gum or celery or pizza) and then enhance it with an odor of bad breath.

i have been one of those fortunate people (i guess) who has been able to create some kind of life and community, career success and satisfaction, and joy in relationship, but i would be lying if i didn't say that the overall quality of life is seriously impacted by the bb. people generally enjoy my company. but i keep a lot of control and distance with my lovers (even friends) that alienates them from me and eventually leads to breaking up. that is to say, i'm charming, intelligent, emotionally aware, etc, but i determine when kissing happens, i never talk too close in a way lovers want (like talking close in bed about deep things), and in general there is intimacy dissatisfaction and a sense of sadness and depression and anger underneath it all. this is all due to my bad breath.

i've been experimenting with cleanses and homeopathic treatments and diet, all of which have not helped, and so my only remedy has come to needing to believe in a miracle of some kind, destressing, letting go of anger in all its forms. i will post my process as this is my only way of marking progress in any form. i've been a lurker on this form for years. if i can find some kind of miracle cure, then i will share with everyone. if i come to a kind of acceptance of my lot in life, then i will try to see why this is so, and what my calling is. i know this sounds spiritual, but seriously, after all the years of reading these desperate posts and attempts to cure the issue, i think this spiritual perspective is the only thing that can calm my soul, more than even a 'can-do' attitude.

p.s. i also do not have health insurance and so seeing a doctor or homeopath is not much of an option, so my experiments will be as cautious as possible
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smallmiracle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aydinmur wrote:
Friends,
Halitosis is neither congenital nor hereditary. But ecologic and predisposant factors may transmit from parent to child via allel genes.

For example, a father may have type 2 halitosis because there is congenital stenosis within his nasal passage. His child will depend on type 2 halitosis because of child's face bones look like his father's face bones.. Here the specifity transmitted from parent is not halitosis, but bone pattern. More examples can be given for type 1,3,4 halitsosis.

I would like to invite you think whether or not type 1 halitosis spread from one person to another with droplets or kissing.

- Murat Aydin
'

dear murat aydin,
can you please post a link to how you define type 1, 2 halitosis, etc.

thank you.
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Phantasist
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Joined: 21 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EazySlug and Smallmiracle,
My idea that bad breath might be hereditary is only a theory. I have absolutely no proof that this is the case. In the absence of proof, we shouldn't give up hope that something can be done. I have had bad breath since I was about 12 years old, and have struggled with this nightmare problem for decades.
However, there are some things that I now know which I did not know years ago before the internet. It seems that about 90% of BB is due to an overgrowth of anaerobic bacteria in the mouth, mostly on the back of the tounge. These bacteria cannot stand oxygen and use sugar for food. Therefore it seems logical to use a two-pronged attack against them. Starve them of food and hit them with oxygen. Normal saliva contains oxygen, but apparently not enough to diminish an overgrowth of bacteria. I have followed a procedure the last week or so - not long enough to be sure of results - but definitely showing an improvement. Here is what you might try:
First off, a dry mouth is your enemy. Saliva is your friend. It is somewhat antibacterial, but it cannot do the job alone. Which brings me to your toothpaste. Most toothpaste contains Sodium Lauryl Sulfate to create a foaming effect, however this substance dries out your mouth which actually increases the production of bacteria the more you brush.
Try brushing with TheraBreath Plus with OXYD-8. Then scrape your tounge gently. You don't have to get all the coating off. Then brush your tounge with a little bit of the TheraBreath toothpaste. I use a toothbrush with half-size bristles to get all the way in the back without gagging. Then dip floss into a small dish of TheraBreath Plus Oral Rinse with OXYD-8 and floss, and then gargle and rinse with the Oral Rinse. When you rinse out your mouth with water, leave a bit of residue of the Oral Rinse in your mouth so that it can continue to inhibit the production of the bacteria. The best time for the procedure is after breakfast and before you go to sleep at night. If you wake up during the night and your mouth is dry, drink some water. Stay away from sugar or foods and drinks that contain sugar because that is food for the anaerobic bacteria. Also don't use a mouthwash that contains alcohol or breath sweeteners. The alcohol will dry out your mouth and the sweeteners will feed the bacteria and make it worse.
All this advice assumes that you do not have a sinus infection or lung-, stomach- or intestinal problems.
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EazySlug
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like you have found your solution Question Question Question
So why linger here talking about hereditary stuff??
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aydinmur
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smallmiracle wrote:
dear murat aydin, can you please post a link to how you define type 1, 2 halitosis, etc. thank you.


I think you ask what classification criteria is used:
http://www.chronicbadbreathfix.com/

- Murat Aydin
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