The truth.. Overcoming it..

[alexanderluther]

I'm sorry Guys I had to take this Down..

All you need to know is:

I used to have a friend who had BB. I convinced him that he didnt have a problem to the point he believed it that he didnt have BB even when he thought he did. The mind is tricky like this.

[stressedout]

alexanderluther!!!

I have been reading your posts (i am almost done), and you sound amazing! God people, read everything and try to comprehend! i am convinced in everything that you have said from day one, and i am convinced that this is a problem of many of us (of course if it is medical, then we have to take care of it). How many of us are getting a thought that medically we are ok, and at times we are ok, but then bb comes back! My holy god, conditioning in psychology, our bodies are like machines, they respond to prolonged stress! a few times i had an urge to find a psychologist who deals with this bb, and im sure they aren't many, so people read and listen to the truth, it might be your answer! no, as much as our fear is telling us that we are cursed, we arent! its our mind that is cursing us day after day, and is not our fault, it is the fault of our memories and our past! didnt aydinmur said that #5 type is psychological (don’t they all tell us it is but fail or do not bother to go in depth with it???), i was wondering how that can be, but yes conditioning our bodies to believe that we emit bb, it really happen from fearing it so much! just read some basic psychology people, and many of you will be saved. i havent even started, but i know if i stay strong, this will be my answer! and hey lay off your angry comments if you feel like posting anything of that nature, this gotta be the "cure they dont want us to know"! you have to read alexanderluther's postings from day one and see if there's any resemblance in what you have been going through, your poor body with no actual fault of yours! and how come this cure has not been posted in the first page? ok i have said all i had to, the rest is up to you to figure out just i am trying to right now. dont you get that there will NEVER be a cure unless we start believing we will nurture ourselves back to life!!! no one will save us. again, if there is a medical issue like tonsil stones and such, yes it needs to be addressed first, but without this cure we will NEVER be really cured. all the best to all. and alexanderluther, you will hear from me soon by email. all take good care.

[halitosisux]

Would someone who gets all of this please summarise the point that is trying to be made here.

Do you actually stop smelling bad in the end or is it about learning to accept yourself as someone who smells bad so that you end up smelling less bad because you arent as stressed about it?

[stressedout]

halitosisux

judging your question it does not seem that you have read all the postings of this person? all of them word by word. and think a bit how our bodies react to various situations in our lives, and then multiply those bad reactions for those people who suffer from bb and thephobia. its a lot to think of. but lets not separate halitosis from halitophobia, anyone who has really suffered from bb carries the phobia with them everywhere, and all the baggage that comes with it = all the weird behaviour, the shying away, the numbness, freaking out, panicking, losing breath, asthma, fever! and how anyone in such a state can speak NORMALLY as if when we were speaking when we werent so fixated on our condition, when we werent aware of it, when we were happy when we were in love! people with bb lose their ability to speak, not in terms of saying something but in terms of speaking properly physiologically? and all the physical body reactions follow = no saliva, dry mouth, awful taste that grows and on and on! can a person insuch a state have a normal breath? you say halitophobia? we all have it! thats why people (those big bosses who know the truth) have been "laughing" at our backs because they know they can't convince us its in our head, the mass of the problem that we are heavily carrying with us. they know it, but since we deny our problem, they will keep laughing and NOONE will care about to save us. While we could be testing new remedies and getting dissapointed in all of them, and the circle continues. NO?

[stressedout]

Do you actually stop smelling bad in the end or is it about learning to accept yourself as someone who smells bad so that you end up smelling less bad because you arent as stressed about it?

i now truly believe that if someone who treated their medical condition (and lets stop digging all the weird abnormalities that makes us go crazy, medical reasons arent that many behind all this. and of course all respect to tmau sufferers and such) and takes time to treat the fear that is responsible for all the physical reactions, learns to go back living their life with the same calm state of mind that we had when we were bb free, that will be our cure. without achieving that state of mind there will NEVER be a cure, because any remedy that works we will discart it because our mind will draw us back to this hell. so yeah when medical and mental are fixed and back to normal, we will be bb free.

[halitosisux]

I've just spent the last two hours since I posted my question going back to alexanderluther's first post and reading a few of them.

I think understanding the psychology of this problem is very important.

Yes the uncertainty aspect of BB causes stress which dries the mouth out, as any form of stress will do.

But when I come across someone with a true case of bad breath, I dont think dry mouth has got much to do with it. Yes a suddenly dry mouth can exacerbate a person's existing case of BB, or cause slight odours to start being released off the tongue of someone who normally doesnt have BB. But I think if people want to kid themselves that bad breath is purely about a self-perpetuating cycle of being unable to stop stressing about their odour then that's up to them. Most people on here know their bad breath has a medical reason that caused it in the first place at some point in their lives and are trying to work their way back and figure out what started it.

Stressedout, if someone came to you and said I know the cause of your BB, and it turned out to be your sinuses and you could tell from the DEFINITE difference that you are cured, do you really think you'd be saying what you are about all of this?

[Phantasist]

My mind is spinning after these posts! I definitely need a double scotch to get my mental state back to normal. That should help me get my mind off my fear of bad breath, or my fear of fear, or whatever it is I'm supposed to be afraid of.

[halitosisux]

LOL Phantasist, same with me

[stressedout]

be back guys on this, need to run out, will reply in a bit.

[stressedout]

Yes my mind was spinning too (I dunno if with the same reason as yours though and I was shaking…Will try to sum it up the best I can:

We have suffered BB because of a medical condition (mine was due to constant sore throats, tonsil stones and perhaps candida), many of us might have fixed our medical condition, but BB is still of an issue. The fear that is rooted deep inside of us due to being hurt by many friends, coworkers or strangers keeps the negative physical body reactions going day after day. When the physical reactions happen even at a slightest sign of threat
(someone getting into our personal space for example) and our mind catches those small negative reactions (for example swallowing the lump and feeling mouth getting drier), we perceive such body reactions as extra threat to our already worsening breath. So depending how long we keep seeing all these threats coming (for example socializing with friends for the whole evening and having no way to escape), the ball keeps rolling while everyone is having fun we are torturing our body and making our breath go worse than it was or maybe it was totally fresh at the beginning of a night. Please read what alexanderluther said about doing an experiment and treating someone like they have bb and their bb really went bad from being totally fresh! I believe in it! A lot of it IS in our heads like it or not. Just watch how your body reacts during the day, try to understand your body and see what causes it to suffer, and you will see it all as clear as I do now. The hardest thing is to reverse it all to what it was when we were fine and happy.

Halitosisux, you are saying what if someone came up to me and pointed to the definite cause for my BB, well there are many fallacies in it, who will ever tell us anything definite? I really doubt it, we deep down know where we have the problem if it is medical. I AM NOT DENYING that medical issues can cause BB, of course they do, but how many of us here who don’t have any medical causes or have them fixed, but still suffering from BB? Do you really think that when someone has their medical cause taken care of they breathe out and go on with their life untouched like they were at the beginning of this rollercoaster journey? Do they right away feel like brand new and are 100% sure their breath is fresh and they are cured? I REALLY DOUBT THAT. Their doubting damaged mind will continue causing all the negative body reaction that will as a result cause BB to occur on and on! So these folks with no medical cause will continue searching for their cause and continue getting disappointed time after time, do you see how and why? I do. And I also realize how this is the most challenging thing I have to overcome in my life. And I am not sure that I am alone in this on this site, I have seen members remarks like this “I know I don’t stink all the time”, “Oh some people don’t react and some do”. Oh really, you don’t stink all the time? Maybe try to convince yourself that you NEVER do, try to relax, try to say the hell with all the reactions! I know its easy said than done. But we have to, we have no choice. Again, I do acknowledge all the medical reasons behind BB, and I don’t deny there are folks here that suffer from them and need to have them fixed, but those causes are not many, so why do we keep on digging all the weird rare causes? Because we want to believe we have a medical cause. While doctors tell us nothing is wrong with us, family tell us there is no BB and encourage us to seek help. What are we smarter than most doctors and we can dig something out that they cant? Well ok can be a case or two, but not to the majority of us.

Give you something to think about –

I go to a doctor, they tell me nothing is wrong, I ask if I have BB, they say no. What the majority of us will say? Stupid bitches they (doctors) know nothing and lie to us! Lie to us! But in reality I bet when we come to see a doctor we are more relaxed, we have no shame, that’s ok if they smell our BB, even better that they do, maybe then they will want to help and do something about us, poor us! Right? But the doctor does say the truth, at that moment we don’t have any BB because as I said we are relaxed and talk naturally. Then the picture changes when we are elsewhere out with strangers or friends who we fear so much will judge and hate us for our BB. So the circle continues, our bodies develop the BB the way I described above. Our families keep on telling us we don’t have BB, but no we don’t even believe them, those who love and want us to fix it, are we really so crazy and disconnected that we want to ruin even those relationships because in our mind they are liars. What we are trying to find as our savour is the 100% confidence we don’t have BB so we can starting trusting people and be ourselves with them, well we will never achieve it, because there will always be something that will trigger those negative body reactions and thus BB. There gotta be others who see what I am talking about? People who don’t think about BB, they don’t want our reassurances that they don’t stink, they go on living and enjoying without all this baggage our hurting mind created. It is our job to fix it, and until then all those people will continue calling us halitophobes and smile at our backs, because we don’t want to believe we are ok. Didn’t aydinmur say that there is little hope to cure psychological halitosis, because people don’t want to believe there is nothing wrong with them, and I now see how it works, no one would bother tell us – thanks alexanderluther at least I have my wonderings cleared on it now. Still doubting it can be you? I don’t know what else to say, go read about fight or flight body response, or overloaded adrenal glands, you think mind has no effect on our body wellbeing? Probably the biggest effect of all. Laughing is the healer. And we cant laugh until we are cured, so the circle goes on and on.

A good example – today when I went out my mouth and throat felt great, especially after realizing what I have just typed I kinda accepted my situation and what I am going through more, so I felt so good and relaxed and I had pure throat, no lump. As time went by and I didn’t even need to socialize much with people (i was simply out and there were people!), almost nothing, I felt mouth drier, small things bothered me, and by the time I came home I had a lump in my throat, imagine if I had to go see someone and talk to them face to face with that lump? I bet you anything I would develop BB, because our bodies are like machines, they record everything, especially traumatic experiences, and imagine living with such experiences for years? There will be no way out but having to fix yourself slowly, otherwise where is life? If still doubting what im saying, read the basic learning in psychology – classical conditioning. Read about dog of Pavlov and dog learnt to salivate after just seeing a familiar stimuli when there was no food around, only that stimuli. So for us the stimuli is imagining our traumatic experiences when we see people’s faces and having people talk to us, that’s our stimuli, and body responds with BB!!!!! You really think with so much research ever done in this world there would be no cure for BB? Medical cures are available with GP and doctors, but psychological cure they wont bother telling us about, it is so damn difficult to overcome it alone, thus they keep calling us halitophobes, because deep down that’s is who we all are, we all fear BB every minute of our lives when we imagine that we are cursed. It is a never-ending circle. Very difficult to break on our own, we need to lose our shame and get to know each other better face to face than hiding behind computers every night and “venting”! We don’t want to live with BB all our lives and end up in a crazy house in the end of it, do we?

Last scenario to picture –

For example if I had to get together with a bunch of friends and ride in a car with them for a few hours. Just thinking about it would cause me to go numb and think what I have to do before “I am ready”. Say I brush my teeth, gargle few times, feel fine and leave my house and meet with friends and we are riding in a car, you can imagine all the body reactions I would have just by thinking about BB every single moment when being so close to people while they are being their normal selves and enjoying talking to me, well who would have BB you are guessing? And lets presume that not me not those friends have any medical conditions that make us suffer from BB. So how come I develop it, and they don’t? I am sure you can guess. By the end of the trip I would want to hide and run away to my comfort zone, and want to scream that no you guys don’t know at all that I don’t stink all the time, you have no idea that in fact im super clean and my mouth feels super clean for most of the time, but would they believe or think such good things about me? They would not even think so deep that I can be suffering from this, all they know is that they smelled BB on me. So no im not only halitophobic. I can easily develop BB if I wanted to, halitophobia mafia as I have seen you call them here might be right after all. Anyone else? You know who you are.

[alexanderluther]

Sorry Guys, I was being unclear. Will make it as simple as possible and I'll give examples.. I forgot to mention that I am an Empath, which means feel people's emotions and Fears all day.

Anyways, let me share with you an example of how conversations used to go for me. I would be talking to someone and we'd be comfortable and then all of a sudden the fear creeps in I start to panick Or it ends with me having BB because I don't know what to say next or that someone would give a bad reaction and then I get cut lol. What I was trying to say above is that BB usually comes when you are not saying the right thing. We speak for the benefit of another. How many of you have been so anxious you just said pretty much anything out of your anxiety? When I am in fear or uncomfortable, I either say nothing or respond with joy.

First of all having anxiety is normal.. Everyone has it to some point.. some not at all.

Anyways, these are all examples of positive acts that I did to help me overcome Fear.. I have vowed that where ever I go and I smell BB in others I would make it a mission to say something positive, encourage them to speak somehow by asking something obvious or make them laugh.

Scenerio one: Was sitting on a train and it was mildy crowdy.. You'd be suprised that alot of ppl have anxiety too. Anyways, was sitting behind a guy who looked uneasy and I felt his Anxiety. I knew it was fear of BB cos I pretty much carry it everywhere I go. So I pretented to ask him what the next stop was cos My goal was to encourage him to say a word to break him out of this fear. He was a lil embarrassed to speak and covered his mouth but I smiled and walked off.

Scenerio two: I was at a receptionist and I had BB, The lady was smiling and was really kind. The lady next to her had to book my appointment and had BB too. I looked at her And said repeated what she had already said to show her I didnt care about her BB and it went away.

Scenerio three: I smile first at who ever looks my way or sits next to me, it doesnt always eliminate fear but it stops it from getting worse.

Scenerio four: This guy was mute the whole entire time his friend was talking to him and I knew it was because he was afraid to speak. So I asked him how his day was and tried to get him to smile. He knew what I was doing and he smiled at me. Afterwards he started talking heaps to his friend next to him who had BB but won't shutup.

Scenario five: At Work I was called to speak to the boss, before leaving my table this lady came up to me and asked me where I was going. I was pretty panicky cos I hate ppl in close space So I thought, respond in fear or joke it off?? I joked it off.

Scenario Six: On initial contact with someone, I usually make them feel comfortable or welcomed first. It helps alleviate the fear somewhat. SMile at randoms, be first to smile.

Scenario Seven: I can relate to the part where I am comfortable with some ppl and have BB with others. That's because You need to build a connection. When you like a friend, you are already doing positive acts for each other by sharing your stories and making each other laugh.

Scenario Eight: I'd get my brother to read my something, Everytime he struggles with a line I make him repeat it again and again till no fear.

Scenario Nine: I was sitting in a cab with my cousin and She knew I was anxious so she kept pointing out the window and saying oh look at this look at that and make a joke. Her way of trying to get me to face everything.

Scenario Ten: I always see get this receptionist that is uncomfortable with me everytime I go to see the Therapist. And I am afraid of my fear so I come off rude. THen one day I thought, ***k it.. make her comfortable so I shared with her How bad the weather was and that I had laundry to do and everytime I hang out the clothes it always rains that day. She was pretty pleased. MAde a huge difference.

Scenario 11: I feed off group conversations, I always wait till I sense someone struggle or I sense Fear. I know it's my que to say something that relates and that's enough to give me positive energy and confidence for that day.

Anyone who judges you ***k them. They don't understand this fear. And believe me they will get there Karma. The point is I let this fear ruin my life, I avoided going out, making friends.. going to uni.

Now I realize that you should do whatver gives you certaintity, makes you confident enough so that you could connect with others.

My story was pretty much saying that I overcame the fear with positive acts. And then the fear of BB came back because I wasnt use to not being in fear, i felt so empty. And then I started obsessing over it again that It all came back because I thought about it too much.

But anyways, Now I am starting over and taking one day at a time.. Live in the now and realize that this fear can be overcome. THe only difference is that you can't expect to one day be BB free or fear free for good. As in the point I am trying to make is that when you are in FEAR next or it comes up, you learn how to deal with it. You learn how to change it so that you are comfortable and certain with yourself. And you also learn how to treat other's when they have BB so that they no longer have it.

[Phantasist]

Alexanderluther,
You are truly an empathetic person. Your sentiments are noble and your attitude is to be admired. Whether or not your ideas reduce bad breath, the mental attitude you suggest, the way we should behave and the pleasant interaction with others at all times would certainly bring about more harmony and peace of mind in all of us. And who knows, a reduction in anxiety might even benefit our bodies.

[ihatethebus]

Alender. I admire you attitude big tym like phantasist too. Your luck too..howd you get to meet so many people with bb.like what 3. Good fortune be with you. I wud have given a ''peanut'' to meet someone else who wreaked on my bus to school.

Had a bb friend at school doing a different course and we hardly met because of different days when we didnt get the courage to go to sku seat in strongly airconditioned lecture halls where bb would travel like the wind.

[Garnesh32]

to ihatethebus and alexluther.. im also surprised how you meet mny people with bb. havent met anyone in my 6 years of suffer. i thot we cant smell each other. correct me if im not expressing correctly

[alexanderluther]

THat's ok, I understand I thought I was the only one back in highschool but the older you get you will find that it is way more common than you think...

My point is, I wish while I was younng if someone told me To just face everything with good intentions and thats all you need. Laughter is the key to over coming this cos your breath tastes and smells sweet. You just need more experiences and trust me while you are young learn to socialize as much as you can take risks and build your confidence.

I think most of us feel and think the same things, I always like to try to treat the other person how I would like them to treat me.

DO not learn off TV!! that is not how you socialize in reality. Only speak out of kindness and learn to listen and speak only when another is uncomfortable. I highly recommend the book ppl skills

OH and never EVER judge another person for BB!!! ever!!!!


There is only light where there is discomfort