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Tongue Surgery

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Larc400
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Tongue Surgery

Post by Larc400 »

Hi, this is just speculation, but shouldn't it be possible to perform surgery on the final 3rd of the tongue (by the base)?

The idea would be to make the surface much more even, so that bacteria cannot find a hiding place.

Tongue looks something like this in a microscope. Bacteria hide deep down in those deep valleys.
Image


Maybe one of the following methods can be used to flatten the surface:

Cryosurgery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryosurgery

Laser:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Er:YAG

Electrocautery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocau ... trocautery

Photorejuvenation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_resurfacing


Does anyone know of a suitable surgeon with whom we can discuss this?

:-s


dark
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Post by dark »

I had a tongue surgery (Electrocautery), the doctor burned "V lingual" area.
The following days my breath became worse than before, until it returned to my normal bad breath.
Larc400
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Post by Larc400 »

dark wrote:I had a tongue surgery (Electrocautery), the doctor burned "V lingual" area.
The following days my breath became worse than before, until it returned to my normal bad breath.
Oh wow, I didn't know it was being done, was that an ENT doctor? In which country? For what reason did he do it... bad breath? Did he only attack the "V-area" (the Circumvallate Papillae)? For me, it seems to stink the most just in front of the "V" 8-[

Image
danger
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Post by danger »

this is interesting. where the circumvallate papillae meets in the centre of the tongue is the only place on my tongue where i can detect an odour, even in the morning. the very back of my tongue never has an odour. i have now come to accept that this cant cured
dark
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Location: Lima, Perú, South America

Post by dark »

He wasn´t an ENT, was a plastic surgeon in Perú. He did that because my family knows him and I told him that I need that and It gonna be my responsability.

He burns the area just below the "V lingual" where it is assumed we don´t have any taste (wrong). The area was like the central pink area in the picture.

Image
curious13
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Post by curious13 »

How about some fine grit sandpaper to smooth it down. I'd do it if I thought it would work!!!
Larc400
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Post by Larc400 »

dark wrote:
He burns the area just below the "V lingual" where it is assumed we don´t have any taste (wrong). The area was like the central pink area in the picture.
When you put a finger on that area, and compare it to the other areas, does it smell any less?

Such a shame if this doesn't work :(

Was Electrocautery his idea? Is Laser something worth trying..?
halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

I tried some experiments years ago on some small areas of my tongue. I wont mention my method, but it involved blistering and permanently scarring the top layer of tissue on small areas of my tongue surface. Years later there are some areas which are still permanently scarred and have no papillae whatsoever, and some which have reduced sized papillae.

On days when I have a slight tongue coating, these experimental patches never have any coating.

Deep tongue fissures that are a known cause of BB for some people, can be reduced by laser cauterization. If anyone's BB happens to be purely type 1 only, then this approach, undertaken professionally, could be an answer.

BTW, I have lost no sense of taste or feeling in the areas which I experimented on. Absolutely no issues, except for the visible patches, which wouldnt exist if the whole tongue had been "treated".

I dont know of anyone who performs this surgery, or who would ever undertake such a procedure on the entire areas of the tongue that have very thick papillae where coatings and odour tends to build up. Its probably a complete waste of time if any areas of thickened papillae remain on the tongue. But it does highlight a possibility, and hope, if papillae can be permanently altered in this way.
Larc400
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Post by Larc400 »

halitosisux wrote:I wont mention my method, but it involved blistering and permanently scarring the top layer of tissue on small areas of my tongue surface.
Please do 8)
halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

Larc, my method could cause injury so I dont feel happy about mentioning the method I devised. The reason I mentioned it is because I have seen for myself how it is possible to quite easily and permanently reduce the size of the tongue papillae, with a possibility of reducing the production of odour in type 1 cases.

What I did could only have any possibility of working to get rid of anyone's bad breath if all the areas of deep papillae depth are treated and it would have to be performed by a professional who knows the hidden dangers of carrying this out, such as cancer risks, nerve damage, infections etc.

In order to treat the whole tongue, it would require very precise heat/energy delivery by laser or electrical energy, otherwise there could easily be permanent damage to muscle and nerve endings which affect speech and related movement of the tongue. What I did was purely experimental, in small patches, to see if papillae could be reduced or completely eliminated by scarring in this way.
halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

Bear in mind that it was during a time that I was seriously considering cutting out my tongue that I eventually thought of doing this. It was total desperation. And the reason I didnt end up doing my whole tongue was because it was also during this time that I discovered the stench coming from my wisdom tooth, so I was lucky because I would probably have ended up with no sense of taste and slurred speech and god knows what else, so please dont try to do any of this. But its definitely worth speaking to a surgeon for their opinion of what is possible.
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deebo
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Post by deebo »

halitosisux wrote:Bear in mind that it was during a time that I was seriously considering cutting out my tongue that I eventually thought of doing this. It was total desperation. And the reason I didnt end up doing my whole tongue was because it was also during this time that I discovered the stench coming from my wisdom tooth,
very harsh to deal with this . it can cause desperation indeed . i assume the removal of your wisdom teeth lessened your bb a bit . currently i have had 2 that aren't fully erupted . 1 has a new cavity because its hard to clean ,otherwise 2 dentist in the past 6 months say my dental health is awesome. They see folks with worse mouths with No BB often . Its really oddly unfair .
Larc400
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Post by Larc400 »

Hi!

I've now asked an ENT surgeon for his opinion on this idea.

He said this type of tongue surgery is not being done in this country (Sweden) and he doubts no one would try it. Unfortunately it would be very hard to make the tongue surface totally smooth. If you perform surgery (laser or other) on the upper layer, a new surface would grow, which may be even more uneven (and harbour more bacteria).

He also checked my nasal passage and nasopharynx area. The only thing abnormal is that I have very sticky/frothy fluids back there. I guess it's what we refer to as post-nasal drip. He said this may be a result of too much tongue scraping (the secretions being a response to the mechanical microtrauma caused by the scraping). So it's a bit of a vicious circle. I scrape, which results in more glue-like secretions, which makes the BB worse, etc.

Lastly, I asked for a Pilocarpine (Salagen) prescription, in order to produce more non-sticky (serous) saliva. I can already tell it has that effect. If it reduces my BB I still don't know but it should have some positive effect 8-[
halitosisux
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Post by halitosisux »

Larc, I dont think it would be necessary or desirable to make the tongue totally smooth. What I've seen on one of the the patches I made where papillae have regrown, is that they do not regrow as thick/deep as before and there is never any tongue coating there.

Yes a new surface regrows, but if a willing plastic surgeon would try to experiment on the heat/energy applied, it might be possible to fine tune to achieve the desired regrowth depth.

The trouble is, AS USUAL the problem of BB isnt considered serious enough. People can get sex changes and god knows what else and the risks that go along with surgery because its easy for others to understand how it might feel for the person involved. But NO ONE understands what a curse BB feels like to the sufferer and how it affects every single aspect of their life.

I swear, if i still had BB and had the opportunity to have my tongue removed, I wouldnt give it a second thought. These doctors and surgeons just have no idea of the seriousness of this problem once it latches in our heads.

Anyway, hopefully nobody needs to have to consider such drastic measures. Every tongue has deep papillae and there has to be an explanation why some tongues end up smelling bad enough to make their breath stink. Good luck with the meds. Maybe a combination of mucus thinning and probiotics will do it for you.

@deebo, sorry I didnt see your reply until now. I was lucky because I found that one of my wisdom teeth was causing a stench on my tongue and was probably causing my tonsils to stink too. Once I had the tooth removed the stench was reduced considerably. I still get some odour right at the back of my tongue if I rub it, but I am assured my breath doesnt smell like it did while I still had that tooth. Some people get away with having bad teeth/hygiene and some dont. I think it mostly depends on whether you are lucky enough to have bacteria like s.salivarius etc. Those who do probably never have BB, those who dont are susceptible, like I was. If your half-erupted wisdom teeth have odour around the gums if you rub them, then you should have them extracted. If they dont then its probably not worth bothering.
emotional rescue
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Post by emotional rescue »

Just wanted to say Hi to my old brothers of the site.

I had a long time without post anything,

I'm still in the same situation, still the same bad breath, triying to live my life the best that i can.

Best wishes to all
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