I See a Ray of Hope!

[stinkyrose]

Hello fellow stinkies,

I have been very frustrated for a long time - since I was a young child I have been plagued by embarrassment and lack of hope. I have spent money on many products to try and resolve my halitosis, without success...because what i have tried were merely products that mask the problem or do not address the root cause of my symptoms.

Recently i have immersed myself in research, both specifically on halitosis and also on healthier living. I have had blood tests and physical exams that show normal functions. However, i have digestive issues that my doctor generally diagnose as irritable bowel syndrome. I believe that although BB is generally coming from the mouth, our digestive system is interconnected and one cannot treat the mouth exclusively without considering the rest of the digestive tract.

This is what i have learned about myself and digestion in general, which i think is highly connected to my BB:

1. I have trouble digesting food in general. I often find food particles in my stool, and i have alternating diarrhea/constipation...the classic symptoms for IBS. I think this is a sign that my hydrochloric acid level is low. SUPPLEMENTING WITH BETAINE HCL HAS DRASTICALLY IMPROVED MY DIGESTION AND RETURNED MY TONGUE TO A HEALTHY PINK! This supplement must be taken with caution. Only take it if you know you have low stomach acid levels.

2. Drinking green smoothies or green juices will add more vitamins and minerals to your diet, eventually helping you to create more HCL on your own. HCL is important to keep pathogenic bacteria from colonizing in the upper digestive tract, where they do not belong. I believe low levels of HCL was what caused my tongue to be perennially white.

3. I eliminated all refined sugars, white flours, and mostgrains in general because i have learned that grains are harmful to yourgut. Just google it. Grains and sugars also feed bad bacteria.

4. Consume more fresh food...go 50% raw or more if you can. Or try to eat raw til dinner. This will help clean up your system.

Just doing the things i listed above has cleared up my white tongue and i feel like my BB is 80% gone. I will have to stay on the same path for abit Longer to be sure if this is a permanent improvement. As of right now, with the beet-derived vegan capsule betaine hcl supplement, iam so much more confident. My tongue is CLEAR AND PINK! I can talk freely while in the car with someone and dont constantly fear they are smelling my BB. I AM HAPPY EVERY TIME I LOOK IN THE MIRROR AT MY TONGUE! Oh, and one last thing...no more fuzzy teeth unless i eat something with flour and sugar, which i try to avoid.

There are lots of resources out there to help you eat more fresh raw foods, make great green smoothies, and heal yourself. I hope this info will help some of you.

Much love, and good luck you guys!

I forgot to add:

I take a probiotic called VSL#3, it is high potency. I take it on an empty stomach either in the morning or at bed time.

I make and eat sauerkraut, a probiotic rich food.

I drink diluted apple cider vinegar before meals to aid digestion.

Sometimes i take kyolic aged garlic capsule with a meal to kill pathogenic organisms ... such as yeast and other fungi.

I am unlucky in the sense that i have to work at it to maintian good health and heal myself, but i believe that in order to cure your BB, it has to be a lifestyle not a quick cure.

[mike987]

Sounds pretty good stinkyrose.

I have similar digestion issues, except for me, it's almost always diarrhea (well not quite, but always very soft).. I'd say 95% of the time. Rarely it's a little firmer, but I usually only notice that if I didn't evacuate my bowels in the last 24 hours. It's as if the longer it's in there, the firmer it becomes.


How can I tell if I have too little, or too much stomach acid? I can often see food particles in my stool too. Sometimes it's pretty evident.

I always felt that I might have an abundance of acid production, because I get hungry after just a couple hours. It can physically hurt if I don't get food into my stomach.. I'd also like to mention that I have to eat all the time, in order to keep weight on.

A gastroenterologist diagnosed me as having IBS, though he never tested for parasites, bacterial infection, or anything.. He just threw lots of ineffective medicine at me, until I stopped going. He did do an endoscopy of both my stomach and large intestine, but he said I was perfectly healthy. Well, when he said an ulcer scar in my stomach, he said I had mild gastritis and gave me useless medicines. Anyway, that was a dead end.

Do you think my symptoms tell that there may not be enough stomach acid? It seems to make sense that there would be an overproduction of stomach acid, because of the constant hunger, pain, and ulcer scar, but my food isn't being digested fully.. I don't know what else a lack of stomach acid could cause.

Anyway, I did order some Betaine HCL, but I don't plan on using that for a while. Perhaps I shouldn't use it at all.


BTW, to the vinegar drinkers.. How much are you downing before a meal? A spoonful or an entire glass?

[halitosisux]

Mike, if your stomach is healthy then Betaine HCL won't do you any harm, even if you are already producing adequate levels of acid. In a healthy stomach, too much acid is generally only a problem when it refluxes into the esophagus. Symptoms that this is happening are pain when drinking something hot like tea.

Most problems relating to the stomach itself are caused by lifestyle (drinking, smoking, stress) and infection with helicobacter. A stomach ulcer can also easily occur just by taking certain medications which are corrosive, like ibuprofen or aspirin. So your ulcer scarring may be for these kinds of reasons too.

Believe it or not, the symptoms of under-production of acid can mimic the typical symptoms of over-production, and frequently doctors mistakenly prescribe medication to lower acid, which only adds to the underlying problem. Doctors dont regard low levels of acid as a problem, because it's not associated with serious immediate health issues. And for most people low levels of acid don't cause any problems because the body can compensate for this if the rest of the digestive system functions well. But for some people, low levels of acid can have far reaching serious health consequences.

If you've ruled out H pylori, you should give the betaine HCL a go. Start off with one tablet at mealtimes and slowly ramp it up a week at a time. If you dont notice any improvements whatsoever after a few weeks then it's not worth continuing. If you start feeling discomfort or symptoms of reflux or any other undesirable symptoms, then adjust your intake accordingly. If you are not allergic to dairy or lactose intolerant then a glass of milk during mealtimes will help protect the lining of your stomach from the acid just incase, while you are experimenting.

[mindyb]

Hey rose
I like your plan. I would like add raw to my diet, what kind of things are you enjoying
Eating? I will look into some raw resources. As for no sugar, are there any natural foods
That are curbing cravings for sweets? Are you able to drink coffee or teas?
How long on the plan before you felt fresh ? Thanks for any info happy new year.

[mike987]

Thanks Halitosisux. You're always very helpful.

I'll give it a shot if the serotonin doesn't help me out.

My stomach ulcer is probably stress related. I've always been a nervous person, and having BB certainly hasn't made my life any less stressful.
I'm hardly the nervous person I was 2 years ago, but I'm still anxious, worried, etc.. Just my chemistry, though the serotonin might be putting me in a slightly better mood, heh, I'm not sure yet.

I actually haven't ruled out H pylori... I'm going to make that my next test when I find a suitable doctor. I suppose I should figure that out before bothering with the Betaine HCL.

I had a blood allergy test done at a local clinic, and the results showed I wasn't allergic to milk, though there was a slight reading for that and most everything else. Gluten was registered at a Class 3 out of 6, though the doctor said I didn't need to worry about not eating it.. Anyway, now that I'm more confident that lactose doesn't seem to be a problem for me, I'm probably going to be more liberal with putting it into my diet. I had also cut it out due to its negative effect on breath in general. But hey, I haven't been drinking milk for years... maybe I wasn't having BB as a kid because I WAS drinking milk. Or... well, who knows. Thanks for the great information, as always.

[halitosisux]

You're welcome Mike. Yeah, best to ensure your stomach is in the best possible condition before embarking on any measures to increase your stomach acidity.

I think stress caused my ulcer symptoms too, coupled with smoking. I'm a very anxious, nervous person too. In the past, if I drank beer/wine or even lemonade containing real lemon, I'd be in pure agony for the next 20 mins or so. When I had my tonsillectomy, nobody warned me not to take the pain meds (voltarol) on an empty stomach, and as a result I was soon in constant agony for days on end, thinking it was just stress. I'm still uncertain why I suffered so badly during that time and why I no longer do. I was given antibiotic therapy for helicobacter, without being tested for it. Maybe I really did have helicobacter and that's why the pain went away, but after the therapy when I found I still had BB, I asked my GP to do a blood test and it came back negative, which it wouldn't do if I really did have helicobacter. Then I went back to my GP and broke down in his office and he agreed to send me for an endoscopy to prove it more decisively, which still came back negative. Infact I was told my stomach was in excellent condition. So god knows what all that pain was about.
It's very difficult to go by symptoms alone. Some people have helicobacter and no symptoms whatsoever.

From your descriptions, these random bursts of foul smelling gas that get released sound like they are quite literally being released from wherever they are originating from. I can't really imagine how such sudden releases could occur like that if it were bloodborne. It has to be coming from some cavity, like the stomach or the sinuses perhaps. It's a known fact that achlorhydria can cause such releases.

Have you ever had a chest and sinus xray to check for foreign bodies?

[mindyb]

Just to add I am a very anxious nervous person too. I take Prozac and while it helps me stay hopeful, it does nothing for my anxiety stress and nervousness. This cannot be good for us bb sufferers.

[stinkyrose]

I have similar digestion issues, except for me, it's almost always diarrhea (well not quite, but always very soft).. I'd say 95% of the time. Rarely it's a little firmer, but I usually only notice that if I didn't evacuate my bowels in the last 24 hours. It's as if the longer it's in there, the firmer it becomes.

Mike - if you can see food particles in your stool, then it means that your stomach is not fully digesting your food before it travels to your small intestine and your colon. The undigested foods nourish the bad bacteria in your intestine. One exception would be corn or something like that -- it's pretty hard to digest for anyone. LOL.

I noticed that after taking HCL *cautiously* as a supplement, I do not see food particles in my stool. So, I'm hoping that there is a causal effect there. In terms of soft stool -- I have experienced soft stool that seems like it's been fermenting...I mean, I get awful gas and it's warm gas too (lol, sorry for the grossness factor)... so to treat that, I would drink fennel tea, take HCL during my next meals, and bring on the probiotics (supplements and foods). Often, it's because I forget to do these things and eat the wrong foods....poor food combining...such as eating sweets after a heavy meal.

How can I tell if I have too little, or too much stomach acid? I can often see food particles in my stool too. Sometimes it's pretty evident.

I always felt that I might have an abundance of acid production, because I get hungry after just a couple hours. It can physically hurt if I don't get food into my stomach.. I'd also like to mention that I have to eat all the time, in order to keep weight on.

The food particles in your stool is an indication of abnormal digestion - incomplete digestion - often because you don't have enough HCL in your stomach. As for eating all the time: we feel hunger and cravings because we want nourishment. Maybe your body is not absorbing the nutrients that you are ingesting. Hopefully you figure out how to digest better, then the nourishment would come naturally and you would feel less hungry all the time. You may want to test for parasites also (as you described having a hard time keeping on weight).

A gastroenterologist diagnosed me as having IBS, though he never tested for parasites, bacterial infection, or anything.. He just threw lots of ineffective medicine at me, until I stopped going. He did do an endoscopy of both my stomach and large intestine, but he said I was perfectly healthy. Well, when he said an ulcer scar in my stomach, he said I had mild gastritis and gave me useless medicines. Anyway, that was a dead end.

Often people with IBS just need to manage their stress levels, eat better meals (make better food combining choices such as eating mono-meals, eating lightest foods before heaviest foods, and eating fruits and sweets alone away from meals), and ingest more probiotics. I cannot stress the probiotic part - when i supplement with more probiotics, my stomach feels much better. Make sure you research the brand before you buy as many out there are useless. Also, probiotic foods are a cheaper way to get more good microbes into your gut (kefir water, sauerkraut).

BTW, to the vinegar drinkers.. How much are you downing before a meal? A spoonful or an entire glass?

By vinegar, I hope you mean apple cider vinegar (ACV) - which is the only vinegar you should drink. I dilute a TBS in a glass of water (8oz) and drink it. It seems to help with my gassiness.

[stinkyrose]

Hey rose
I like your plan. I would like add raw to my diet, what kind of things are you enjoying
Eating? I will look into some raw resources. As for no sugar, are there any natural foods
That are curbing cravings for sweets? Are you able to drink coffee or teas?
How long on the plan before you felt fresh ? Thanks for any info happy new year.

Mindy,

This is what a good day for me looks like:

Morning:
-a tall glass of water + lemon/lime or herbal tea without caffein
-green smoothie (leafy greens + 1-2 types of fruits + water + flax seeds or hemp seeds)

snack can be some kind of fruit such as berries, pears, apples...etc.

Lunch:
salad (romaine or baby spinach, cukes, tomatoes, seaweed, sauerkraut....pretty much anything fresh you would like in it; sometimes I have grilled chicken with it, but I'm cutting back on meat)

If I'm at home, I could make miso soup full of broccoli, carrots, seaweed...

If you want something that looks like a wrap or sandwich, you could use large romaine lettuce leaves to wrap up: avocado, sprouts, cukes, tomatoes...

Dinner:
I'm a sucker for Thai food or something warm during dinner. Lightly steamed veggies with a raw sauce (sundried tomatoes with fresh tomatoes and herbs, for example).

so, I'm not all raw, but if you can try to eat all raw until your dinner that would be very beneficial to your body.

I refrain from caffeine - so i don't drink black tea or green tea, but I do drink fennel seed tea, rooibos tea, peppermint/ginger tea...basically the ones that are good for the digestive system or calming without caffeine in it. Fennel tea is really freshening for the breath.

For sweets, after a week of cutting out sugar you will not crave sugar as much. during the first week of cutting it out of your system, you will feel like crap. well, at least I did. I was very lethargic and sleepy; and I had a mild headache. After the initial withdrawal, you will feel better. I like the sugar I get from fruits - at least it's more natural. However, even fructose from fruits are not good for you if you consume it in large quantities.

FRESHNESS - I don't know about other people, but I personally have noticed that there is a "lag" in my body's response to eating healthier foods. If I am motivated and stay on course (i.e., eating mostly raw foods, taking probiotics, drinking plenty of water) for at least a week or two, I begin to notice a clearer tongue, happier mentality, clearer skin....so if I give in to my guilty pleasures, I will definitely see the toxicity showing up on my tongue a week later. I still have trouble maintaining clean breath, just because I am not as rigid with my routine as I can be...but I'm working on it.

[sillygrrl08]

What brand of probiotics do you use that is helpful?

[mike987]

BTW, to the vinegar drinkers.. How much are you downing before a meal? A spoonful or an entire glass?

By vinegar, I hope you mean apple cider vinegar (ACV) - which is the only vinegar you should drink. I dilute a TBS in a glass of water (8oz) and drink it. It seems to help with my gassiness.

Why do you say that?

There was actually another recent thread where someone was suggesting regular white vinegar. Is there a reason I shouldn't be trying that?

[mindyb]

Any update Rose? Are you still taking bentaine hcl, how many are you taking ?