Killing the bad breath monster

location · Post by **location** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:52 am

Male, early 30s, US. Very foul BB all my life, at least as bad as faecal matter, or worse. Can't talk to people up close, always have to be chewing gum to even have a conversation. Can't work in an office. No significant other. Basically it's like solitary confinement.

First, to be clear, let me say that I think BB is worse than cancer, or pretty much any other disease. It's dismissed as a cosmetic problem by doctors, yet it tortures its victims and forces them into a self-imposed ostracism. In this regard, it may actually be worse than death.

I have dust allergies which cause post nasal drip aka PND. PND is known to cause BB, but some people do not get BB from it. I used allergy meds and sprays. They work just okay, minimal results. I also take allergy shots. I think nasal sprays provide relief from BB for a short period of time by opening up nasal passages.

Also, I have a white film coating my tongue all the time. I tried the tongue scrapers but it cannot be removed. I tried correctly.

My teeth are fine.
My gums are fine.
My health is fine.
My diet is fine.
I do not drink or smoke or do drugs.
My mouth is not dry. I drink water.
My lifestyle is fine (athletic).

WHAT I TRIED SO FAR

- I thought it was my tonsils. I had them removed. No effect.
- I thought it was my nose. I had a procedure where they burn a bit of the part of the nose that inflates and causes congestion. No effect.
- I had acid reflux tests in a hospital. Negative.
- I tried mouthwashes, therabreath, mints, gums, probiotic gums from therabreath, etc. Chewing therabreath gums or using the mouthwash does help, but the effect goes away quickly and BB returns.
- I seem to remember that when I am on penicillin, the BB does not go away.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE YOUR INPUT ON

1. What bacteria/fungi cause BB? I see Candida and pylori repeated a lot. How do you diagnose? Any others?

2. How much does Chlorophyll really help? I know it only treats the odor, but if all else fails it's better than nothing.

3. Any other suggestions that are somewhat substantiated by science or personal experience?

About diet: I even had food allergy testing. I'd like to avoid discussions about "BB diets" unless there is compelling evidence.

Thank you for any contributions to this thread! you're saving a life and will be rewarded with infinite karma points.

My uneducated guess: I might have some bacteria or fungus, and the PND might be making matters worse by providing a buffet of protein on my tongue.

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:28 am

Hi there. Do you know whether your bad breath comes out of your nose while breathing with your mouth closed?

There's a couple of things you can try to see how you get on.
Firstly, ask your doctor for a h.pylori blood test. Alternatively, you can buy self-testing kits for $5 from most pharmacies or on ebay/amazon which are just as reliable.
Secondly, stop using mouthwash and stop scraping and scrubbing your tongue. Buy some capsules of Acidophilus. Wait about 30 minutes after brushing your teeth with ordinary toothpaste and then break open a capsule and empty the contents onto the middle of your tongue. Close your mouth and allow your saliva to turn the powder into a paste. Open your mouth and using a tongue scraper, very gently brush the paste into the papillae of your tongue, covering as much of the area as you can reach. Then close your mouth and allow your saliva to turn into a bath of Acidophilus and try to hold it there for as long as you can, swooshing it around your mouth and over your tongue.

Do this for a few days and see whether it helps your coating. If you can remove that coating, there's a chance your natural defenses can work to make your mouth smell a lot better than it currently does.

location · Post by **location** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:40 am

I think that, yes, bad breath does come out of my nose.

I am definitely going to test for H. Pylori.

What does the Acidophilus do exactly on the tongue? It's 2 AM but heck I'm going to GNC right now to see if they have it.

location · Post by **location** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:11 am

I found a quick home test method for Candida:

"This saliva home test has to be conducted as the first task, after waking up in the morning, even before brushing the teeth or having breakfast. Take a glass of water and spit in it. Keep it aside for around fifteen minutes and you have to check the saliva after this time span. If you have yeast infection, the water will turn cloudy or the saliva will develop strings that travel to the bottom of the glass. If the saliva stays at the water surface or disappears eventually, you can rule out the possibility of male yeast infection. But, if it sinks to the bottom of the glass, then there is a chance of infection."

I did it just now and there are strings traveling down to the bottom immediately. Scary.

Did anyone do the saliva test? Could you please do it and let me know what yours looks like? We may be on to something here.

Archimonde · Post by **Archimonde** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:43 am

Ever had a hair mineral analysis done ?

had your thyroid checked ?

It appears that a mineral imbalance or hormonal imbalance can weaken your immune system and allow yeast or bacteria to grow. That's one of the million theory that could explain why candida could grow in a healthy person.

location · Post by **location** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:29 am

Another update: Did more research on Candidiasis, or thrush, and it seems that it causes a white coating on the tongue, like this picture:

It looks just like mine. But I don't have bumps or pain. Just the white film that cannot be removed. Mine is very uniform, not patchy. It seems there are many prescription drugs for this. I don't want to get too excited.

I need to get an appointment with a good Dr. Infectious disease doctor I would assume?

location · Post by **location** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:30 am

Archimonde wrote:Ever had a hair mineral analysis done ?

had your thyroid checked ?

It appears that a mineral imbalance or hormonal imbalance can weaken your immune system and allow yeast or bacteria to grow. That's one of the million theory that could explain why candida could grow in a healthy person.

I've had blood work done before, no hair stuff. The thing is, I've had this problem all my life, white tongue and all.

Archimonde · Post by **Archimonde** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:46 am

what did the blood test show?

I have the same symptoms as you. My BB started at 11 years old, you?

location · Post by **location** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:52 am

Archimonde wrote:what did the blood test show?

I have the same symptoms as you. My BB started at 11 years old, you?

My blood's normal, I don't think a thyroid disease would be invisible for decades. But what do I know.

My BB, as far as I can remember, I guess I had it at 11 too or earlier even.

Your tongue has a white film on it that never goes away, correct? No bumps or pain? Just a film you can't scrape off?

Can you do the test above and let me know? (spit in glass of water)

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:35 pm

Candida and other yeast/fungal infections are opportunistic organisms. They are present on the skin and even in the foods you eat, so it's everywhere. It's only a problem to your body if it's given the opportunity to overgrow - for instance if your immune system is compromised or suppressed.

The spit test is probably nothing but a waste of spit! Every mouth contains hundreds of different species of bacteria and fungi. IF the spit test has anything whatsoever to do with candida then it's probably because there's just a lot more general microbial activity going on in the mouth - and the reason for this is what needs to be addressed - like any disease situation nearby or example, or mineral or hormonal imbalances in the system which are being discussed a lot on here lately.

The reason Why crackpots who sell candida nonsense tell you to do this spit test when you first wake up is because they know that this is the time when your mouth is stale and dehydrated and full of a night's microbial festering. If this test meant to relate to candida overgrowth in the mouth, you should be able to take this test at any time of the day.

If you have a candida "infection" in your mouth, it's unmistakeably clear to see, and if you do not have the clear signs then you DO NOT have a candida problem there.

Candida "infections" are quite common for women because the vagina and genital area is a perfect place for an imbalance to occur and allow these yeasts to overgrow. Do these women all have bad breath and systemic candida and god knows what else we keep hearing on here?? NO, they go the chemist or doctor and they get treatment and it's all gone.. for the time being, unless the conditions which allowed it to overgrow in the first place remain, then it will very likely return.

It's no use trying to fight candida. If candida is your problem, then you have to find out what's allowing it to be so. Fungi like dark damp places, like your genitals or your sinuses. Genitals is easy to treat because drugs can get to them, but sinuses is not easy to treat because drugs do not effectively reach this area. This is also why chronic bacterial sinusitis can be so hard to treat because antibiotics do not get to the area effectively enough for standard antibiotic courses to be effective.

Acidophilus is a probiotic which apparently effective in helping to establish a healthy microbial flora, wherever one exists around the body, the gut, the mouth, the vagina etc. The worst thing you can do for any microbial flora is try to kill it or disturb it with antibacterials or antibiotics. So in a way it's like fighting fire with fire.

Some people may simply have these hormonal or mineral deficiencies, which affects the systems within the body which control the microbial activity, whether that's in the mouth or the gut, or both, which is why there seems to be an apparent correlation for most BB sufferers between certain intestinal symptoms and oral microbial over-activity.

Location, when you rub your finger around your tongue, how badly does it make your finger smell?

location · Post by **location** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:25 pm

I did the spit test last night before bed. Did again this morning, same result.

Finger smells as bad as breath.

location · Post by **location** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:34 pm

Just spit tested again right after brushing. It takes a few seconds and sure enough the legs start forming.

If I do the acidophilus test, how long will it kill the candida for?

mtr · Post by **mtr** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:54 pm

The photos you requested about the spit test from dome older threads..

viewtopic.php?t=4479

viewtopic.php?t=4516

NOTANYMORE · Post by **NOTANYMORE** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:36 pm

Bad breath all your life? Doubtfull.

Kinda sounds like you may have become aware of a moment in time when your breath was not so fresh and then became obsessed. Perhaps your anxiety has become full blown and that is what is causing your halitosis. Nerves can do a number on your breath.

You have been proactive and that is good. You haven't mentioned LPR (reflux) which could very well be the cause of your PND. also, nerves can exacerbate the reflux producing constant PND.

My recommendation to you is to try antidepressants and OTC reflux meds. Antidepressants will relieve our anxiety and you will have even more saliva and your stomach will finally be able to relax which could end your PND. If the antidepressants work then you know it was anxiety, if not, at least you won't give a shit what others think and can live a somewhat normal life. Can't hurt to try.

Virtuous Viking · Post by **Virtuous Viking** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:43 pm

I see people recommending anti-depressants and I find this very ill-advised. Anxiolytics are not a panacea for every problem. They can have major side-effects on the body.