Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

Searching, it is always great to be able to pass ideas like this, so thank you too.

I stopped short of mentioning and questioning why bleach would be so beneficial when the effect of chlorine dioxide, unfortunately, often appears to wear off. Perhaps there is a simple explanation. Perhaps the antimicrobial action of chlorine dioxide is too broad to allow the emergence of a more beneficial microbial population, compared to bleach.

The exponential rate at which bacteria multiply also makes it difficult to understand how any one "shot" against them could last for so long, but perhaps if certain species of aerobic bacteria remain unaffected, then this may explain why.

One more point, is that, as you say, TMA is produced continuously in the small intestine. But one thing we cannot underestimate is the absorption of the tongue surface to act as a 'buffer' and thus add to our confusion. Another variable is the actual 'expelling' of chemicals from within our bloodstream, i.e. whether it happens continuously or whether the body purges them at different periods and intensities it decides to.

I also wonder why there is no defined correlation between things like low IgA levels and BB - or in other words, why doesn't everyone with low IgA levels have BB?- but maybe that's because there are other complex factors involved.

We must also remember that excessive TMA levels can be due to a number of different unrelated reasons (i.e. diet, intestinal condition, intestinal microbial profile, organ function, enzyme activity, hormonal imbalance, etc) and any one of these, or a combination of these can determine the levels of TMA, making it all quite confusing.

searching wrote:I place 15 drops of bleach, i.e. 5.25wt% sodium hypochlorite, aqueous solution + water = 10 to 15X the amount of bleach solution, for dilution, mix, swish/swirl/gargle for 1 minute, then spit out the used solution. Note: this is diluted sodium hypochlorite, i.e. diluted bleach solution, not chlorine dioxide.

So that's almost 0,5%. Twice the concentration used in the guide linked. I have seen studies where they use as little as 0,05% for mouthwash. Do you think it's safe going as high as 0,5% long term? I'm currently using around 0,10%, but after reading this i doubled the dosage. How high do you think you can go before it becomes harmful?

halitosisux wrote:I stopped short of mentioning and questioning why bleach would be so beneficial when the effect of chlorine dioxide, unfortunately, often appears to wear off. Perhaps there is a simple explanation. Perhaps the antimicrobial action of chlorine dioxide is too broad to allow the emergence of a more beneficial microbial population, compared to bleach.

The effect of chlorine dioxide may, in some cases, give a range of outcomes as it is sometimes supplied as (inactive/stable) sodium chlorite, formula NaClO2, for safety reasons during manufacture, shipping, and storage, which is activated to chlorine dioxide, formula ClO2, as the pH decreases, see reactions 3 + 4 in this paper showing the requirement of acid for activation. Some users may occasionally have oral pH too high, i.e. neutral, for sufficient activation, so the antimicrobial agent is insufficiently active when in the mouth, i.e. primarily as stable NaClO2 versus ClO2 + sodium salt. Bleach doesn't require this activation to be antimicrobial.

halitosisux wrote:The exponential rate at which bacteria multiply also makes it difficult to understand how any one "shot" against them could last for so long, but perhaps if certain species of aerobic bacteria remain unaffected, then this may explain why.

When BB, or any, microorganisms repeatedly double to a troublesome population over time, it depends on how many vital microorganisms are initially present at the beginning of the time period. If bleach reduces BB microbes to a very low level after contact, i.e. far below what ordinary brushing and flossing achieve, it will take an extended period of time before that BB population accumulates to a problematic level. So perhaps a person can achieve 24 hours, or longer, of relief.

Yes, and lots of food for thought there.

Whatever happens and whatever the reasons, I'm glad it's working for you, and it seems many others too. Best of luck and hope it continues.

I'll update on my progress and refinements in a few weeks, in a TMAU thread. Apologies for going off topic in here and to anyone else for sounding dismissive.

Corpsebreath wrote:

searching wrote:I place 15 drops of bleach, i.e. 5.25wt% sodium hypochlorite, aqueous solution + water = 10 to 15X the amount of bleach solution, for dilution, mix, swish/swirl/gargle for 1 minute, then spit out the used solution. Note: this is diluted sodium hypochlorite, i.e. diluted bleach solution, not chlorine dioxide.

So that's almost 0,5%. Twice the concentration used in the guide linked. I have seen studies where they use as little as 0,05% for mouthwash. Do you think it's safe going as high as 0,5% long term? I'm currently using around 0,10%, but after reading this i doubled the dosage. How high do you think you can go before it becomes harmful?

Great question. Thanks for catching the typo!
I am diluting the 5.25wt% sodium hypochlorite solution with 20 to 30X water dilution. The resulting solution should have no more than the recommended solute concentration published in the article linked earlier in the post.

I've been using this method, most mornings, for 2 months thus far, with excellent results in managing BB.

I've observed no negative side effects.

It has provided a wonderful boost to my self-confidence.

I am happy it works for you and I am happy we have a solution that has no sideeffects....
I use pure bleach, just a drop dipped on my tungbrush to clean my tongue when I go out....

no burning, no pain....just the taste that goes away quickly...
maybe I should try swishing my mouth...I think a log ot bb is in our throat...just behing out tongue...so you need to clean that part out...

we should get really pure bleach, like dentist are using....i mean we swallow dentist bleach all the time...and I never had any side effects...then try Katz stuff and you immediately feel side effects......

I need to ask dentist where to get pure bleach...

Hi Searching,

How are you?

As i posted before, I also had great results with this mouthwash, but slowly I started to see some "little darkish stains" in some of my teeths, so I freak out and stop for a while with the mouthwash. The stains seems to get darker with the repetitive use, and seems to slowly banish if I stop.

But, the results about getting rid of the bb with this solution were so great, that I had to do it again.

No I'm at a point where I'm trying to get a right balance at how much often to do it, I'm afraid that the effect of the solution could potencially lead to some oral cavities. I'm planning to see a dentist about this, to see if the stains are just that, or something to be concern of.

On the other hand, the solution seems to not have the same great effect of the first period, now that I'm not using it all the days of the week. I hope that if I start to using it all the days again, it recovers its effectiveness (I hope that I won't blown my only chance, and now the bacteria somehow get used to this solution).

Anyway, I would like to know your toughts about this,

You always have great info and simple explained to share.

Best regards

emotional rescue wrote:As i posted before, I had great results with this mouthwash, but slowly I started to see some "little darkish stains" on some of my teeth, so I freak out and stop for a while with the mouthwash. The stains seems to get darker with the repetitive use, and seems to slowly banish if I stop.

Now I'm at a point where I'm trying to get a right balance at how much often to do it, I'm afraid that the effect of the solution could potentially lead to some oral cavities. I'm planning to see a dentist about this, to see if the stains are just that, or something to be concern of.

the solution seems to not have the same great effect of the first period, now that I'm not using it all the days of the week. I would like to know your thoughts about this.

Hello ER,

My self-confidence is fully-restored. Thus far, this appears to be a very-useful, fast, and inexpensive method for managing [my] BB.

I’ve been using it, once daily, most mornings after brushing with ordinary toothpaste, since the beginning of May. I’ve observed no negative side-effects, apart from the unpleasant taste.

My current dosage is 10 drops of 5.25wt% sodium hypochlorite, i.e. ordinary chlorine bleach, diluted with 20 to 30X water. I deeply gargle it and vigorously swish it throughout my mouth for about 1 minute, then spit out the used solution. I do not rinse, drink, nor eat for the next 10 minutes.

I have not noticed any darkened deposits; however, one of the references cited earlier in this thread mentions this as a potential side effect. I do not see how bleach can cause tooth decay. In fact, it should help in decay prevention by destroying acid-producing microorganisms.

Additional details:
· I do brush my teeth and tongue thoroughly before using the diluted bleach solution to rid my mouth of excess debris that might otherwise subtract from the bleach’s effectiveness. This enables the diluted bleach to exclusively target the remaining microorganisms, that are living where a tooth brush, and floss, cannot reach.
· I do mix a fresh solution each morning by combining the bleach concentrate with water just prior to use.

Hey searching!

Thanks for your detailed thread.

I decided to try your method, and purchased sodium hypochlorite online. The only stuff I could find was 14%, so I diluted half a tsp with 28 tsp of distilled water.

I tried swishing and gargling for 1 minute in the shower and noticed some immediate improvement, but it only lasts about 4 hours before bb starts to creep back and by the next morning my BB is just as bad as ever.

I found I had better results with Hydrogen Peroxide, but that stopped working. Is it possible the bacteria has become resistant to oxidisation?

I'm curious whether you ever used hydrogen peroxide in the same way, and whether it had any effect.

Thanks

Lifelong

Lifelongsufferer wrote:I tried swishing and gargling for 1 minute in the shower and noticed some immediate improvement, but it only lasts about 4 hours before bb starts to creep back and by the next morning my BB is just as bad as ever.

I found I had better results with Hydrogen Peroxide, but that stopped working. Is it possible the bacteria has become resistant to oxidisation?

I'm curious whether you ever used hydrogen peroxide in the same way, and whether it had any effect.

Hi Lifelong,

Have you tried using the diluted sodium hypochlorite method more then once, for example for several consecutive days? If so, does the effect wear off, each time, after 4 hours; or, does the benefit last longer each time?

I know of no microorganisms that live in the mouth, that are resistant to bleach oxidation.

I've used hydrogen peroxide in the past. For me, the bleach is significantly more-effective in erasing BB, with long-lasting results.

Have you tried using the diluted sodium hypochlorite method more then once, for example for several consecutive days? If so, does the effect wear off, each time, after 4 hours; or, does the benefit last longer each time?

Hi searching,

The day that I posted was after the first day of use. Today is the third day, and I do feel like I'be woken up with less morning breath so I will keep on trying for the next few days and update everybody.

I was wondering whether you still rinse with this solution on days when you're not going out, or whether you ever give yourself a "break"? Also, how long do you think it's safe to use the solution for? I've read that oxidation mouthwashes can cause a "hairy" tongue.

I have a consultation with a Faecal Microbiota Transplant clinic next week, so I'll see how that goes too!

Lifelongsufferer wrote:I was wondering whether you still rinse with this solution on days when you're not going out, or whether you ever give yourself a "break"?
Also, how long do you think it's safe to use the solution for? I've read that oxidation mouthwashes can cause a "hairy" tongue.

This treatment continues to provide, for me, an excellent result in eliminating/managing BB.

I typically use this method each day. At most, I skip one day.

I unfortunately cannot meaningfully comment on how long this method is safe to use. I'm using myself as an experimental subject - with the clear understanding that there may be health risks.

I've not [yet] seen signs of hairy tongue, since using this approach for more than three (3) months. I will continue to pay close attention; and, I will report any negative side-effects.

I sometimes just dip a tungbrush inside the bleach, just a tiny bit and scrape tongue...but it does not eliminate bb completely...
just a bit......
we need some bb meter pronto....
also if I gargle with 1/10 solution, I get sick in my stomach...so I dont do it anymore...just tongue and then really clean the tongue out...

searching wrote:
I've not [yet] seen signs of hairy tongue, since using this approach for more than three (3) months. I will continue to pay close attention; and, I will report any negative side-effects.

Thanks for your reply!

Sorry to ask so many questions, but I just have two more regarding this.

1. Do you find that the sodium hypochlorite stains your tongue yellow? Oridinarily I do not have much of a coating on my tongue, but since starting this method I have notice my tongue has a yellow tinge to it.

2. How do you measure your BB? I sometimes use the lick test, but other members have said this isn't reliable. I also go off of people's reactions, but other members have also said this is an unreliable way to test. Do you have somebody you can ask for feedback etc?
I ask because I am unsure of how I will know whether the method is effective for me.

Thanks again for sharing with us.

Lifelong