Fresh Breath - Cause Found - Mission Accomplished

searching · Post by **searching** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:33 am

Thank you Jimi,

After years of experimentation and finally developing effective technique - I’ve got my BB successfully under control. My first post was in 2007.

The culprit was improperly-cleaned, anaerobic pockets in my gums, between teeth, in folds & crypts in and around tonsils and throat, in my nasal passages, sinuses, and tongue.

I’m convinced that differences in the physical structure of each mouth predispose some of us to BB versus those without BB. Those without BB have few, or no quiescent pockets to harbor anaerobes.

Failure to clean each and every anaerobic pocket ensures the persistence of BB or speeds its return after daily hygiene routine, i.e. between teeth, adjacent to poorly erupted wisdom teeth, tonsil crypts, skin folds surrounding tonsils, ill-fastened crowns, between tongue papillae, nasal passages, and sinuses.

I have my tonsils. All of my wisdom teeth were removed decades ago and I’ve had very BB before and after the oral surgery.

Below I have summarized my daily routine, including the formerly, poorly-completed Step 6, that now when practiced properly, produces an excellent result.

Each morning:
1. I brush my teeth for 1 to 2 minutes with ordinary toothpaste using a manual toothbrush.
2. I gently brush my tongue with an old toothbrush with bristles that I’ve cut to half of their original height. The brush is wetted with water only. I use it for about 15 seconds.
3. I floss between all teeth, requires 1 to 2 minutes
4. I next employ oral irrigation using the high-velocity, jet-tip between each tooth and “walk” the tip along the inner & outer tooth/gumline top and bottom. During this step I use one full reservoir of warm water, 700 milliliters volume, with ¼ teaspoon of table salt and ¼ teaspoon of baking soda dissolved in the water. This step has about a 2 minute duration, described here; however, I'm no longer using hydrogen peroxide. The first minute of irrigation produces a milky, cloudy outflow. These are the majority of microbial colonies being flushed away.
5. I then refill the oral irrigation reservoir with a second, 700 ml volume of warm water, containing the abovementioned amounts of salt and baking soda. During this step I use an irrigator-toothbrush tip to brush and irrigate the teeth, gums, and tongue using the first half of the solution. The exiting irrigation-solution is clearer now.
6. I then change to the tongue scraper tip to irrigate my tonsils and the surrounding skin folds includng the top and sides of the back of the throat, touching and moving over these regions, with the tip to ensure the flowing solution enters all folds and pockets. This continues until the reservoir is empty, described here. I now pass the Finkelstein finger test. Ruben's post seen here was key in providing the final clue. Locating, irrigating, and flushing-clean all anaerobic pockets is critical to obtaining a good result. In the past the result of this step had been hit-or-miss. Now, with complete cleansing of the entire area, the effective result is consistent.

Each night:
• I brush my teeth for 1 to 2 minutes with ordinary toothpaste using a manual toothbrush.

About once monthly:
• I perform Stage 2 nasal irrigation described here.

I use no mouthwash. I no longer use hydrogen peroxide. I take no antibiotics. I eat all foods cooked and/or raw, meat, dairy, eggs, starch, fruit and vegetables, bland and/or spicy.

I work in close proximity with colleagues. I'm sensing BB emanating from others. These are my friends and associates. I will help only if asked first. If my solution will work for them, ten minutes each morning may be all that is needed. For me, I had to discover where and how to clean.

mike987 · Post by **mike987** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:55 am

Excellent searching. So you are no longer getting any reactions from others?

bbshiat · Post by **bbshiat** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:17 am

nice... so u have nasal breath too ?

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:11 pm

Congratulations Searching.

This sounds like the stage I'm also at. I'm almost following some of your procedures identically, even with the home-made toothbrush tongue scraper with half-cut bristles, which I made about a week ago.

One difference, which you may also find beneficial if you happen to try it, is that I'm using this adapted toothbrush to firstly scrape away any buildup of slough from the surface of my tongue, VERY lightly. Then, using a gentle jabbing/wobbling action, I'm pushing Oral-B PRO-EXPERT toothpaste containing Zinc Lactate into the tongue surface and getting the bristles deep between the tongue papillae.

I've been using this Zinc toothpaste in this way for over 2 months now, twice a day, and during that entire time I've not been able to detect the slightest odour from my tongue surface. The only difference is that in the last week I'm experimenting with this new improvised tongue scraper. I'd been using a home-made metal tongue "shaver" type scraper until now. I wanted to try something that can get even deeper.

I also use a pinch of salt in the waterpik reservoir, but do not use any baking soda.

Also, I had my tonsils removed about 15 years ago, so they're no longer an issue. I also do not use any form of nasal irrigation, and as far as I know, I've never had nasal odours. Although I do tend to suffer with nasal congestion on one side, I have been diagnosed with a deviated septum, and this results in nothing more than higher than usual clear, odourless harmless post nasal drainage.

I also use no mouthwash, although there may be antibacterial agents in the Oral-B toothpaste that are contributing to the overall improvements, in the same way that an antibacterial mouthwash could do. If I could use Zinc lactate alone, then I would do, but I don't know how to obtain that.

Archimonde · Post by **Archimonde** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:01 pm

@Searching

Did you ever dislodge tonsil stones while irrigating your tonsil area/throat?

meowkity1 · Post by **meowkity1** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:22 pm

For the past 2 years i have had this hard puffiness just around 1 molar. i read a post where someone mentioned this too and that they started to clean it out with salt which helped to release pus. i started doing this yesterday and every time i lick that area it tastes like pus, though i dont see anything, does this sound like a anaerobic pocket to you guys? nothing ever shows up on x-ray, heigenist said she didnt know what it is. do these pockets show on x-rays?

HigherThoughts · Post by **HigherThoughts** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:01 pm

Congrats searching. That is a very thorough and nice routine. I think for some people here that would help because their bad breath is probably just in the mouth.

Sadly for me mine is not from the mouth so that would not help me. My poop taste comes from way back in my throat. It is all the way back from where my epiglottis is. I have an appointment with a GI doctor this friday so hope I can get some help.

deebo · Post by **deebo** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:45 pm

awesome !!

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:48 pm

Meow, best person to ask is Dr. Aydinmur in his new thread.

Source · Post by **Source** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:20 pm

Congratulations Searching.

Sounds like a very thorough cleaning job.

meowkity1 · Post by **meowkity1** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:39 pm

I have suspected my gums before, and have begged for a deep root scaling, and they say Im fine and dont need it. I dont believe the dentists. I have medicaid, and I just think they dont want to hurt my feelings by telling me that medicaid does not cover these type of procedures. I have a lot of space between my teeth from years of using tooth pics and store bought dental scalers. Im seriously considering getting a electric root scaler off of ebay. they have descent ones around the 200 range.Medicaid doesnt even cover a root canal, u just have to get it pulled. Matter of fact medicaid dentist dont even use electrical scalers, only manual. for the past year I visited a private dentist twice who uses electrical scaler. the first time, there was a big difference, the second time, no difference, and I felt highly rushed because the girl didnt want to put up with my breath, and it cost me $115 at Aspen dental. Though, with a front view smile my teeth look perfect, probably because when we are kids we pay great attention to the front, and I still do. Im baffled. I know people with brown on their teeth, who smoke and drink and not a pinch of bb. My sister who smokes cigs, has a tongue coating thicker than mines and I have never once smelled a pinch of bb on her. I made her look up the PATM forum and shes finally geting it a little more.

Source · Post by **Source** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:51 pm

Meowkitty1

Would you be able to do a test for me?

Can you please get a glass of water, take a sip, and let the water sit for about 2-3 minutes?

After that time has passed, bring the water up to your nose and smell it. Does the water smell any different? If you feel comfortable with your loved ones, can you please ask them to see if the water smells any different?

In addition to smelling it, can you also take another sip and see if the water's taste has changed?

Thank you, and I appreciate it.

potty_mouth · Post by **potty_mouth** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:25 pm

Excellent work Searching!
I have been following your progress on this one for a while and wanted to say that I have had some good success since I bought a Philips water-flosser when I was in the States. (Waterpik are all 110V which is no good for me!). You really see the amount of crap that is getting blasted out of your tooth-gaps. Way more than with floss alone. I was using the hydrogen peroxide/water mix along with my already rigourous nasal saline flushing technique and it worked really well. (I think we came to the same conclusion about saline flushing at exactly the same time almost!) Anyway, much less reactions.

Since then though, I have noticed that the effect of the hyrdrogen peroxide seems to have lost its edge, or maybe it's the fact that I had not been so strict on the gluten and dairy free.
I think you have found a great regimen to reduce symptoms, but we can't be 100% sure that the pockets alone are the root cause. I'm sure we all know people with disgusting cracked, occluded teeth with lots of opportunity to develop anaerobic bacteria but have no BB. I think our mouths are more susceptible to this kind of invasion because of an underlying cause. Possibly due to a difficult-to-detect immune response which effects our entire secretory immune system, including our mouths. See viewtopic.php?t=4876
Thanks again though Searching, what a great technique and one that we all should add our tweaks to.

deebo · Post by **deebo** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:28 pm

is anyone else Jealous of oral source malodor at this point ? TO see in the email inbox "I'm cured" ,click and its someone who had teeth removed ,or a deep cleaning . Forgive my apathy -_-

Archimonde · Post by **Archimonde** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:13 pm

potty_mouth wrote: I think our mouths are more susceptible to this kind of invasion because of an underlying cause. Possibly due to a difficult-to-detect immune response which effects our entire secretory immune system, including our mouths. See viewtopic.php?t=4876

The other way round is more likely: oral bacteria from debris is weakening your immune system

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Dental/way ... HXjcK4WhdQ

I'm guessing that no matter how healthy a person is, there is a tipping point at which too much debris overpows anyone's immune system. Then your health becomes comprised and you wrongly assume you might have a medical condition that leads to BB.

Like the saying goes, the most simple explanation is usually the correct one. I will never completely rule out that BB could come from my mouth. I wish there was a switch that turned off gag reflex.