Maybe cured..

[nolab]

Hi everyone, for many years I searched for a solution to this ****ing problem. maybe its gonna be a long post but just try to summarize my experiences and thoughts and maybe it might help cure you.
its been 3 or 4 years now and I think I found what is working for me..
Never wanted to register and make an account, but If it means I can help someone out there then its worth it, because I know how horrible it is.
so I tried a lot of things, almost everything I guess. you name it, I tried it. it all made it only worse, went through hell. tried different kind of diets, supplements etc. I had oral bb and nasal bb, but nasal bb was the bigger problem. My theory to the nasal breath type is an overgrowth of a type of bacteria in the small intestine or even higher up, tried antibiotics didn't work. had a lot of possible theories but I think I had an overgrowth in the upper gut, which caused the nasal bb. so if there is an overgrowth of a specific pathogenic bacteria then it will cause inflammation. the inflammation in the upper gut/small intestine is possibly linked to post nasal drip( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4499101/ ), which I had also constantly.
I made a bacteria dna stool test(expencive but worth it, because I wasn't so clueless anymore), which is better than a normal stool test showed a heavy overgrowth of specific bacteria called prevotella. searched for information about prevotella and found out it produces a lot of hydrogen sulfide. high prevotella=high amount of hydrogen sulfide gas. maybe it got absorbed in the small intestine and the liver couldn't detoxify that much of this gas, because it was too much and very toxic.. I don't know, just a theory. thus the nasal bb. the liver can't detoxify it and passes it to lungs. maybe I will put some links here
https://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Ferment ... ut_and_CFS
so I read about this bacteria and when it flourishes ant what environment it doesn't like and it turned out, that it doesn't grow well when there is much bile(or normal flow of bile) Always had floating stool and fat malabsorption(not good fat digestion=low bile=sibo) so this made sense.
https://www.fixyourgut.com/bile-reflux- ... digestion/
So it is important that you find out for your case what bacteria it may be and try to search for information on it, but I think that an overgrowth of bacteria(all pathogenic types) is due to failed digestion. something isn't working as it should be. To keep a healthy upper gut/small intestine environment there are natural antibiotics/antimicrobials that the body produces. 1.Hydrochloric Acid 2.Bile 3. Pancreatic enzymes. all these are crucial to keep this environment good and pathogenic bacteria away. So a year ago I tried Betaine HCl the first time and oh wow it made the nasal bb so much worse so I stopped it. my fault.
It all began as I learned that this one bacteria doesn't like bile and that I had very low bacteria that digest fats.(because I tried strict diets with only vegetables, grains.. etc. without fat or protein or meat. I thought that the choline made me smell, or the amino acids or the sulfur compounds. but no it wasn't all of that.
SO to adapt to more fat=more bile I SLOWLY increased the fat/protein intake. A HEALTHY BALANCED DIET WITH PROTEIN/FATS/CARBS. no such thing as only carbs or only vegetables. TRUST ME its not gonna cure you in the long run, because it does not treat the cause. just prevents symptoms.
you need fats proteins with every meal, its crucial.
The first few attempts ncreasing the fat was really bad, it was horrible, the smell was bad and pnd was bad, everything. but after a time like´magically I adapted more to the fat and day by day it got better and better. Today I try to eat fat and protein with every meal to make sure the bile is flowing and the second point : the stomach acid
I Always had the thought in my head that it might be low stomach acid, because I always burped and had no appetite. but I didn't thought that it would make such a difference. Let me tell you increasing the fat(do not be scared of choline(unless you have tmau, I thought I had it but no) or sulfur you need both of them) was the first time I saw an improvement. first worse but then better than ever. still not good but better.
But when I tried increasing the stomach acid with Betaine HCl pills this did the rest. Be careful the first 3 or 4 days it was awful, the smell was really bad muuuuuch worse(die off upper gut pathogens)
https://www.fixyourgut.com/betaine-hcl- ... digestion/
but than on the 5th day it got better. and since then it just got better. pnd drip is gone and the nasal bb, first time perfect stool since a maybe 5 years. itwasnt that good since a few years and I tried everything.
What is important: This was my case and my type of bacteria. You can try what I made but better it is when you find out what kind of bacteria you have.
You need to improve bile flow and stomach acid, and eat healthy fats for inflammation and immune system.
This was a really long post, but I hope that it may help some people. My diet now is healthy fats(salmon, good cheese, olive oil, 2 eggs every morning) , normal amount of protein (mainly eggs and beef), and healthy carbs but not too much(occasional toast, mainly potato or rice, and now that my sibs cleared a little sweet potatoes). aaaaand what ever I crave maybe some sweets or cola, now I can enjoy everything because its okay and I hope its gonna be for you. for now I am taking one Betaine HCl pill with every protein meal.
Maybe there are other cures to this problem like herbal antimicrobials but it didn't work for me. my cure was so simple yet I didn't see it.
I would take some rest from school or job for a week maybe when your starting Betaine HCl or fat increasing, because like I said it will get worse first.
For the oral bb ( got automatically a lot better when digestion and silo got better BUT STILL) I tried a different toothpaste a natural one and it got muuuuuch better my mouth isn't so dry anymore. read a famous book about dental health and the idea is basically prebiotic toothpaste. not gonna name the brand but mine got neem&pomegranate in it. when you search it you will find it for sure. This toothpaste made a huge difference for ME
I think this is all. Rarely it is a genetic disorder, but I don't think that a lot of us in the forum have it, but it could be.
And before everythingg else the first step you need to get your teeth and gums checked. but mine were perfect.
Feel free to ask, I want to help and hopefully put an end to this hell for you

[nolab]

and to the oral bb part I wanted to say that no matter how much you brush or mouthwash or whatever product you use. it will not treat the cause but mask the symptoms. not a solution for the long run. I mean proper hygiene is important.. brushing two times, flossing at night and brushing tongue is a must, but over excessive mouthwash or product won't treat it. it all happens because of an unbalanced microbiome in the mouth, a war between good bacteria and bad pathogenic bacteria BUT the bad pathogenic ones are winning. The environment needs to be right.. no gum disease cavitiesIn my case everything was perfect but it somehow wasn't good. tried famous moutwashes, excessive brushing flossing etc.. nope.
Then I read a book and it mentioned not PRObiotic but PREbiotic toothpaste(PREbiotic=food for good bacteria)
PRObiotic lozenges would only do for few hours good in my case and then it returned. I wondered why.. but apparently in this community of bacteria in the mouth there isn't enough place for those new bacteria, no niche. or its very hard to populate those bacteria. the idea behind the prebiotic is that it feeds the good bacteria so they will be winning in this war and kill a little and then keep those bad bacteria in check. just a thought.. it worked a little for me so maybe also for you. I mean trying doesn't hurt and maybe its gonna be better

[nolab]

One think i forgot is that you have to eat sufficient calories and vitamins/minerals a day for your body and organs To work, for your liver to detox, to Produce stomach acid, bile..etc. i know what Its like.. you want to prevent the smell by eating less, restricting diets or eating nothing. This was me. But Its didnt change anything. Now i am focusing on eating more and sufficient and More balanced and somehow with More fat and betaine hcl it got a lot better. Dont want to use the word cure yet but very close to cured atm..

[KL123]

Hi everyone, for many years I searched for a solution to this ****ing problem. maybe its gonna be a long post but just try to summarize my experiences and thoughts and maybe it might help cure you.
its been 3 or 4 years now and I think I found what is working for me..
Never wanted to register and make an account, but If it means I can help someone out there then its worth it, because I know how horrible it is.
so I tried a lot of things, almost everything I guess. you name it, I tried it. it all made it only worse, went through hell. tried different kind of diets, supplements etc. I had oral bb and nasal bb, but nasal bb was the bigger problem. My theory to the nasal breath type is an overgrowth of a type of bacteria in the small intestine or even higher up, tried antibiotics didn't work. had a lot of possible theories but I think I had an overgrowth in the upper gut, which caused the nasal bb. so if there is an overgrowth of a specific pathogenic bacteria then it will cause inflammation. the inflammation in the upper gut/small intestine is possibly linked to post nasal drip( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4499101/ ), which I had also constantly.
I made a bacteria dna stool test(expencive but worth it, because I wasn't so clueless anymore), which is better than a normal stool test showed a heavy overgrowth of specific bacteria called prevotella. searched for information about prevotella and found out it produces a lot of hydrogen sulfide. high prevotella=high amount of hydrogen sulfide gas. maybe it got absorbed in the small intestine and the liver couldn't detoxify that much of this gas, because it was too much and very toxic.. I don't know, just a theory. thus the nasal bb. the liver can't detoxify it and passes it to lungs. maybe I will put some links here
https://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Ferment ... ut_and_CFS
so I read about this bacteria and when it flourishes ant what environment it doesn't like and it turned out, that it doesn't grow well when there is much bile(or normal flow of bile) Always had floating stool and fat malabsorption(not good fat digestion=low bile=sibo) so this made sense.
https://www.fixyourgut.com/bile-reflux- ... digestion/
So it is important that you find out for your case what bacteria it may be and try to search for information on it, but I think that an overgrowth of bacteria(all pathogenic types) is due to failed digestion. something isn't working as it should be. To keep a healthy upper gut/small intestine environment there are natural antibiotics/antimicrobials that the body produces. 1.Hydrochloric Acid 2.Bile 3. Pancreatic enzymes. all these are crucial to keep this environment good and pathogenic bacteria away. So a year ago I tried Betaine HCl the first time and oh wow it made the nasal bb so much worse so I stopped it. my fault.
It all began as I learned that this one bacteria doesn't like bile and that I had very low bacteria that digest fats.(because I tried strict diets with only vegetables, grains.. etc. without fat or protein or meat. I thought that the choline made me smell, or the amino acids or the sulfur compounds. but no it wasn't all of that.
SO to adapt to more fat=more bile I SLOWLY increased the fat/protein intake. A HEALTHY BALANCED DIET WITH PROTEIN/FATS/CARBS. no such thing as only carbs or only vegetables. TRUST ME its not gonna cure you in the long run, because it does not treat the cause. just prevents symptoms.
you need fats proteins with every meal, its crucial.
The first few attempts ncreasing the fat was really bad, it was horrible, the smell was bad and pnd was bad, everything. but after a time like´magically I adapted more to the fat and day by day it got better and better. Today I try to eat fat and protein with every meal to make sure the bile is flowing and the second point : the stomach acid
I Always had the thought in my head that it might be low stomach acid, because I always burped and had no appetite. but I didn't thought that it would make such a difference. Let me tell you increasing the fat(do not be scared of choline(unless you have tmau, I thought I had it but no) or sulfur you need both of them) was the first time I saw an improvement. first worse but then better than ever. still not good but better.
But when I tried increasing the stomach acid with Betaine HCl pills this did the rest. Be careful the first 3 or 4 days it was awful, the smell was really bad muuuuuch worse(die off upper gut pathogens)
https://www.fixyourgut.com/betaine-hcl- ... digestion/
but than on the 5th day it got better. and since then it just got better. pnd drip is gone and the nasal bb, first time perfect stool since a maybe 5 years. itwasnt that good since a few years and I tried everything.
What is important: This was my case and my type of bacteria. You can try what I made but better it is when you find out what kind of bacteria you have.
You need to improve bile flow and stomach acid, and eat healthy fats for inflammation and immune system.
This was a really long post, but I hope that it may help some people. My diet now is healthy fats(salmon, good cheese, olive oil, 2 eggs every morning) , normal amount of protein (mainly eggs and beef), and healthy carbs but not too much(occasional toast, mainly potato or rice, and now that my sibs cleared a little sweet potatoes). aaaaand what ever I crave maybe some sweets or cola, now I can enjoy everything because its okay and I hope its gonna be for you. for now I am taking one Betaine HCl pill with every protein meal.
Maybe there are other cures to this problem like herbal antimicrobials but it didn't work for me. my cure was so simple yet I didn't see it.
I would take some rest from school or job for a week maybe when your starting Betaine HCl or fat increasing, because like I said it will get worse first.
For the oral bb ( got automatically a lot better when digestion and silo got better BUT STILL) I tried a different toothpaste a natural one and it got muuuuuch better my mouth isn't so dry anymore. read a famous book about dental health and the idea is basically prebiotic toothpaste. not gonna name the brand but mine got neem&pomegranate in it. when you search it you will find it for sure. This toothpaste made a huge difference for ME
I think this is all. Rarely it is a genetic disorder, but I don't think that a lot of us in the forum have it, but it could be.
And before everythingg else the first step you need to get your teeth and gums checked. but mine were perfect.
Feel free to ask, I want to help and hopefully put an end to this hell for you

Good that something worked for you.
Do you have anyone else in your family with same type of chronic halitosis as you had?

[nolab]

nope. don't think it is genetic in my case. I mean maybe it can be and that's why my body cant detox these gases properly unlike normal people, but by clearing the overgrowth of bacteria that produce those gases it kind of disappeared for me.

[KL123]

Also, where did you get the "bacteria dna stool test" done?
Was the test order placed by your physician?

[nolab]

ordered it online and interpreted it by myself..

[KL123]

ordered it online and interpreted it by myself..

Can you pvt message me or even post it here, the link to order the test?

[KL123]

Also after reading your OP, I have a little mixed feeling.

One on hand, your research and findings seems to be aligned with a conversation that I had with a VERY GOOD doctor a few years ago.
Since, there wasn't much research done on this, all she said was that for some reason, some pathogenic bacteria over grows in some people, that causes chronic halitosis.

But on the other hand, I am little confused when you said, you found that your gut was poor in digesting fat, but then you said you started taking MORE fat?
How did this seem to work?

[nolab]

lol really why? I needed to help myself because no doctor could help me. so I spent a lot of time reading about this all and try to find a cure. I mean 4 years is a lot of time to read about something.

SO the part with the fat digestion. The stool test included dietary recommendations and they recommend me to increase fat and protein intake because it showed that I had VERY low amount of the bacteria that help digest fat and proteins. (Maybe because the restricted diet or maybe the prevotella was too much, I don't know). so like I said increased it SLOWLY. in the beginning it was awful but it got better in small steps. Apparently somehow the bacteria adapt to the diet and increase

[nolab]

wanted to add it is important to test because in my case it was prevotella but I read that also sulfate reducing bacteria can overgrow and produce hydrogen sulphide. And in the case of overgrowth of sulfate reducing bacteria you need to limit fat and protein because they love and thrive in bile.
both I think would produce The Who farted smell occasionally, as it was in my case. so I don't know.. either test or try increasing fat/protein slowly WITH the betaine hcl and look how it goes. just some thoughts hope it helps some get on the right path

[KL123]

wanted to add it is important to test because in my case it was prevotella but I read that also sulfate reducing bacteria can overgrow and produce hydrogen sulphide. And in the case of overgrowth of sulfate reducing bacteria you need to limit fat and protein because they love and thrive in bile.
both I think would produce The Who farted smell occasionally, as it was in my case. so I don't know.. either test or try increasing fat/protein slowly WITH the betaine hcl and look how it goes. just some thoughts hope it helps some get on the right path

interesting, cuz that's what I was wondering.
If my result comes with some other bacteria over growth than prevotella, what to do then?
But if we are talking about sufate reducing bacteria is over growing then betaine HCL may not be the immediate solution? It will be a new research to figure out what would counter the over growth of sulfate reducing bacteria?

[redboy]

Good if your BB slow down, but believe me nobody get cured it becomes immune to everything we take and come back, The other thread about Aloe vera work for a month for some and didn't work to the other, In my case I have BB since I can't remember how long, it cost me to stop working, then few months back I have a blood test result came and my cholesterol and Uric acid level is high (again) and I have to take again this meds. Zocor and Allopurinol increase the smell from bad to worse that's why I just take it on and off, But my MD change my Cholesterol meds to crestor instead of Zocor, now another test came back my A1C is high I am now a pre-diabetic and my MD prescribed me a metformin (to control my sugar). my breath stinks as in super stinks, but I have no choice. so I have to take this 3 meds, I don't know what happen but when I start taking metformin it reduced my BB. (not cured) just reduced. So my suspect is metformin who control the sugar in my body help. but as I said reduced, I hate to use the word cure because I never heard anybody who get cured, BB is like a cancer it keeps coming back. I am planning to stop my meds after my next blood test because my lipid an uric result is already nomral and my next blood test was for the A1C hopefully it also normal, and then back again after 3 months, then observe my breath if it will becomes worse than today.

[KL123]

Good if your BB slow down, but believe me nobody get cured it becomes immune to everything we take and come back, The other thread about Aloe vera work for a month for some and didn't work to the other, In my case I have BB since I can't remember how long, it cost me to stop working, then few months back I have a blood test result came and my cholesterol and Uric acid level is high (again) and I have to take again this meds. Zocor and Allopurinol increase the smell from bad to worse that's why I just take it on and off, But my MD change my Cholesterol meds to crestor instead of Zocor, now another test came back my A1C is high I am now a pre-diabetic and my MD prescribed me a metformin (to control my sugar). my breath stinks as in super stinks, but I have no choice. so I have to take this 3 meds, I don't know what happen but when I start taking metformin it reduced my BB. (not cured) just reduced. So my suspect is metformin who control the sugar in my body help. but as I said reduced, I hate to use the word cure because I never heard anybody who get cured, BB is like a cancer it keeps coming back. I am planning to stop my meds after my next blood test because my lipid an uric result is already nomral and my next blood test was for the A1C hopefully it also normal, and then back again after 3 months, then observe my breath if it will becomes worse than today.

For type 2 diabetes, SERIOUSLY watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAwgdX5VxGc

[nolab]

wanted to add it is important to test because in my case it was prevotella but I read that also sulfate reducing bacteria can overgrow and produce hydrogen sulphide. And in the case of overgrowth of sulfate reducing bacteria you need to limit fat and protein because they love and thrive in bile.
both I think would produce The Who farted smell occasionally, as it was in my case. so I don't know.. either test or try increasing fat/protein slowly WITH the betaine hcl and look how it goes. just some thoughts hope it helps some get on the right path

interesting, cuz that's what I was wondering.
If my result comes with some other bacteria over growth than prevotella, what to do then?
But if we are talking about sufate reducing bacteria is over growing then betaine HCL may not be the immediate solution? It will be a new research to figure out what would counter the over growth of sulfate reducing bacteria?

I didnt do much research on the sulfate reducing bacteria. read somewhat of dr greg nigh and that this type of overgrowth is an "adaptation" because the body lacks sulfur(due to restriction maybe) but it needs it, so the body adapts in increasing sulfur producing bacteria. it is a little complicated..maybe you can google on dr greg nigh he has some information on hydrogen sulphide sibo I think. https://ndnr.com/gastrointestinal/sibo- ... n-sulfide/
If betaine hcl would treat this specific overgrowth I don't know, but I think it is an important part to try the betaine, it would not hurt or increase overgrowth I think. (just careful for people with ulcers, then betaine hcl may not be the best idea)