Glutathione helps

[Ethanklein]

Just thought I would also add this which is from Dr Greg Nigh who that video on EO Nutrition was basically paraphrasing and exploring

What Causes Hydrogen Sulfide SIBO?

An overgrowth of sulfate-reducing bacteria leads to an excessive production of hydrogen sulfide gas. This might be caused by a low fibre, high animal protein/fat diet. Dr. Nigh also feels that hydrogen sulfide SIBO might be caused by toxicity, contributing to a deficiency of sulfur in the body (a key compound for optimal detoxification). This deficiency it is thought then leads to an adaptive response in the microbiome, via an increase in bacteria that product hydrogen sulfide as this gas can then be converted to sulfur.

I assume by microbiome thats referring to the stomach, so it seems the whole GI tract is in on it

[mauricio]

I assume by microbiome thats referring to the stomach, so it seems the whole GI tract is in on it

I think it refers to intestinal bacteria, I doubt the stomach is the ideal environment for those.

I have always had really cold hands and feet which are the call cards of bad circulation. I wonder if the two could be linked and if there is any correlation with circulation too.

Yup, same. Can't stand it anymore, along with all the other problems.

you may of been afflicted by two seperate but closely linked issues, one being the poor methylation cycle which caused a largely general imbalance in the bodies production of glutathione and many other key molecules that contribute to normal bodily function, And then also secondly - hydrogen sulfide sibo which your body may have inflicted on itself in order to facilitate and boost the important intake of sulfate through your bloodstream or other means? Would that be an accurate summary?

That's very accurate, I could have hypothyroidism too for all I know, hence the cold ends, low pressure, pale aspect.

So this Overgrowth of sulfur creating bacteria which I would assume by the name and from a quick google search began in the large then moved to the small intestine starts pumping out these powerful fumes (is that leaky gut syndrome?) and that sensation of "fumes from the deep" is what we are feeling? So potentially a hydrogen breath test at the doctors would come back as positive for this? I have previously theorized it could be a form of SIBO but I never got round to being tested before Covid kicked in and doctors closed in the UK. I have read that a course of rifaximin is effective in eliminating this form of hydrogen based SIBO, did you ever consider this before treating yourself?

Leaky gut is when those bacteria pass through the gut wall and enter the blood stream, I'm not sure I had that too, I'm more keen to exclude that, I don't even think I had SIBO either, had no constipation nor diarrhea. But yes, definitely had bacteria producing sulfate, hence the fumes. That's the thing; I didn't even bother taking the breath test for SIBO cause I was sure I'd get a positive, I got to it the other way around by accidentally getting on a low FODMAP diet, bb went away, and I found out about those type of foods and how they related to SIBO.
Yes I did consider taking the (natural) antibiotics but then found out about the protective adaptation, now why would I want to kill them while they are literally trying to save my life? I'm lucky to be a long time follower of a few old school natural hygiene guys, they laugh at the idea of SIBO. Treatments with antibiotics and natural antibiotics make it go away but the incidence of recurring cases is astonishingly high, check out testimonials on youtube, it's an absolutely mess. There's people on low FODMAP for years (I lasted like two days), probably the last thing you wanna do. I understand that is counter-intuitive.

This Dr Jean-Marc Sobczyk is touching on some right chords although my case seems more the other way around again, poor methylation prompting my body to react in the GI tract.

I have looked at methyfolate, it's part of CFS protocols, have to order it yet as I've been rather busy.

No, I had totally missed Mindspace's posts or gave them no importance at all it seems. That's unfortunate cause we are coming to his conclusions years late My allergies were a mess too, I still sneeze like there's no tomorrow in spring. Gene testing is on my bucket list as well: https://www.mygenefood.com/genes/gastro ... genes/cbs/
I so wish I had unlimited resources, not that that is too expensive, I think it runs at $99 but these costs pile up you know, that's making me very depressed, how everything is slowed down by finances, I was onto mercury chelation ages ago, ended up doing nothing, actually worse than nothing as eventually a dentist removed them with unsafe protocol and now I've to take care of it.

Yes, zero fumes and bb of course, loving my onions and avocados (high FODMAP )

[Emanuela hoxha]

Hello guys we would love if you will join us to share experience on bb i think that it would be very helpful for all us

[Jimi Stein]

DO you have to spam all the posts with your stuff now?

[Emanuela hoxha]

Its just an invite that i think it will help us a lot , my intention are is not to spam is to help

[Taylor]

Emauela:

Thanks for your efforts in trying to get people together via zoom.

Maybe you should take a poll to see who might be interested in joining?

Just a thought...

[Emanuela hoxha]

Ita everybody choice off course , we can just have a chat without seeing each other which think is great because we can share experience in one hour with everything we know about this situation and you can have many advice for free that can be life changing for all of us , i dont have the possibility to take a poll i also dont have the chance to create a new topic because i have tried and cant do it , but as i said its everyone choice, i just send an invitation to you guys .

[Ethanklein]

I have looked at methyfolate, it's part of CFS protocols, have to order it yet as I've been rather busy.

No, I had totally missed Mindspace's posts or gave them no importance at all it seems. That's unfortunate cause we are coming to his conclusions years late My allergies were a mess too, I still sneeze like there's no tomorrow in spring. Gene testing is on my bucket list as well: https://www.mygenefood.com/genes/gastro ... genes/cbs/
I so wish I had unlimited resources, not that that is too expensive, I think it runs at $99 but these costs pile up you know, that's making me very depressed, how everything is slowed down by finances, I was onto mercury chelation ages ago, ended up doing nothing, actually worse than nothing as eventually a dentist removed them with unsafe protocol and now I've to take care of it.

Yes, zero fumes and bb of course, loving my onions and avocados (high FODMAP )

Yeah I totally get ya, i've spent a fortune over the years on random stuff thats gone nowhere from diatomaceous earth to ACV filled with the "mother"! But that being said It is all of those failures that propelled us to look further which is a brighter outlook i suppose!

Hmm interesting stuff, so it seems the molybdenum and b12 combo have worked in concert. Moly fixing the sulphur transportation process, stopping the need for protective adaption thereby fixing the SIBO whilst the B12 Methylcobalimin did it's thing supporting the methylation cycle, increasing natural Glutathione etc etc. Great information. Just a few final questions I have, Knowing what you know now do you think the NAC really did anything? I saw you were fairly shocked by its impact when you first took it. What dosage are you supplementing with of each moly & B12 and you've been taking this daily in the mornings before food up to this point? Fairly quick results too of fumes dissapearing? Do you envisage having to continue taking indefinetly or cycling on and off over longer periods? Keeping that transsulfuration going seems to be key.

I am going to order some and give it a go as i'm fairly optimistic on this one. Do you have any particular brand recommondation for the molyb? And which B12 brand were you taking? I did see a B12 complex that included the activated form of Methylfolate which is supposedly absorbed more effeciently that I might grab. Nolab did mention that too-

They recommend supplementing with molybdenum for those with suox gene problems to support the sulfur pathway, but the overgrowth won't go away in a week with this. but it should get better after some time. So I am taking molybdenum and will be taking vitamin b12,b6 and folate in an ACTIVE form, since I also got changes in methylation processes and cant process normal b vitamins or something like that, no expert on this.(active form b12=methylcobalamin, active form b6=Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate and active form folic acid=folate)

Also what inspired you to chew the B12 as opposed to just swalling it whole, trying to make it more easily digestible and increase absorbtion I guess? Sorry to hear about your mercury issue too btw, I have two fillings but paid the big bucks to have the white filling as I was concerned about the mercury in the mouth!

Thanks for all this info Mauricio it's good to hear from someone who has researched thoroughly and found relief. I will report back after settling on some products and getting stuck in. Cheers pal hope your enjoying your lush dinners now , would love to hear what else you've been munching on since clearing the hurdle

[Jimi Stein]

b12 is better be injected in the blood every few months, maybe somebody should look into that

[mauricio]

b12 is better be injected in the blood every few months, maybe somebody should look into that

I assume you mean in cycles, yes injections are better indeed. The b12 pills I'm using I'm probably getting less 5% of the content.
Oils are a good option it seems and I'd like to give them a try.
hb12 (non-activated form) is not ideal for injections tho as it's very photosensitive.

[mauricio]

so it seems the molybdenum and b12 combo have worked in concert. Moly fixing the sulphur transportation process, stopping the need for protective adaption thereby fixing the SIBO whilst the B12 Methylcobalimin did it's thing supporting the methylation cycle, increasing natural Glutathione etc etc. Great information.

Yes looking at those folate/methylation cycle schemes you have everything laid out in sight and you get to think about the ways these things interact. I know those schemes are a pain in the ass at first, my brain shuts down when I seem them, as we get more familiar with them they are good support in understanding that's going on.

Just a few final questions I have, Knowing what you know now do you think the NAC really did anything? I saw you were fairly shocked by its impact when you first took it. What dosage are you supplementing with of each moly & B12 and you've been taking this daily in the mornings before food up to this point? Fairly quick results too of fumes dissapearing? Do you envisage having to continue taking indefinetly or cycling on and off over longer periods? Keeping that transsulfuration going seems to be key.

NAC worked instantly from the second pill, acted within minutes, imagine having bb gone in 5 minutes Yes, it certainly helped the cell using b12 and provided cysteine for gluthatione (op went directly with it).
The pills are 600mg. Moly 200mcg BioCare (it has citric acid tho, not ideal for moly, take away from OJ or lemon juice)
b12 is Naturalie 1mg mb12 1mg cb12 (+b6&b9) for two tablets, as said need to try the oils for proper supplementation.
If you don't wanna try the oils I'd definitely suggest liquid form over tablets (or injections of course). The b12 that I'm taking don't have citric acid in it I think, but that's usually the case and it would damage your enamel keeping it under the tongue. Yea I usually take it away from meals, not sure if that's influential.
I started chewing/putting it under tongue as I read absorption was better this way.
Selenium, iodine, moly have to be in a particular form, you can read more here
Mercury likely messed up all my minerals, I'm probably gonna get Lithium to boost up my mood.

I have two fillings but paid the big bucks to have the white filling as I was concerned about the mercury in the mouth!

very good! we didn't have any choice back then.

Thanks for all this info Mauricio it's good to hear from someone who has researched thoroughly and found relief. I will report back after settling on some products and getting stuck in. Cheers pal hope your enjoying your lush dinners now , would love to hear what else you've been munching on since clearing the hurdle

Hehe no longer afraid of anything, alcohol was a problem too cause those fumes intensify everything x100 times so having a glass of wine meant smelling like a drunk dude... Chewing gums too were so useless, shortly after tasting their flavor you'd get the fumes to kind of mix with it, awful feeling.
I was appalled at colleagues eating and not rushing to rinse with mouthwash right after, now I can do the same

[Ethanklein]

NAC worked instantly from the second pill, acted within minutes, imagine having bb gone in 5 minutes Yes, it certainly helped the cell using b12 and provided cysteine for gluthatione (op went directly with it).

I started chewing/putting it under tongue as I read absorption was better this way.
Selenium, iodine, moly have to be in a particular form, you can read more here
Mercury likely messed up all my minerals, I'm probably gonna get Lithium to boost up my mood.

Hmm very interesting link you posted to that B12 website, I had found the biocare molyb with vitamin C you mentioned on amazon but then also found chelated Molybdenum which reviewers were praising. The B12 oils site though specifically stipulates

The Molybdenum should NOT be a Molybdenum chelate or Molybdenum amino acids complex

but doesn't expand on why. Can only imagine it's something to do with bioavailibility? Or maybe thaat's specific to their particular protocol. Does make me want to research whether Molyb in tablet form is effective as reviewers do seem to be hot on some supplements like this ( I cant seem to add pic or link) NAC 600mg with 25mcg of selenium and 50mcg of Molybdenum chelate. Also on amazon 'country life" 150 mcg chelated molybdenum with positive comments on bioavailibility. Granted reviews arent wholly accurate, scientific or specific.

Just a side note that initially confused me too, I noticed a user earlier in this thread said

NAC has selenium and access of selenium causes bad breath

. NAC does not literally "have" the chemical element Selenium. Selenium itself is imporant & many steps down the ladder of body chemistry Selenium is used in detoxification processes in tandem with glutathione. What is true and maybe what they were trying to get at is that if you have a mutation in the gene SELENBP1(wish I knew how to hyperlink the published paper) which is supposed to regulate methanethiol, the mutation will stop that genes normal function and cause excess levels of methanethiol in the blood that is then exhaled from the lungs creating that constant fart breath odour. From my admittedly non-professional research I can't see how "access of selenium" causes bad breath, it seems highly important to normal body function. SELENBP1 mutation could be worth investigating for some with intense room filling nasal though, makes logical sense. The issue seems again this ugly head of tweaked messed up genes that appears to be creating chemical imbalances that one way or another end up being expelled from our bodies through whatever means the body can come up with. (exhale breath, skin pores, tongue, sinus maybe etc) I dont know anything about TMAU but I imagine there is some kind of pattern here that is probably similar in that and most conditions...


You also mentioned previously when you were 3 days into NAC

(I'm supplementing also with Thiamine TTFD among other things)

were these 'other things' the B12 and Molyb? I'm just wondering about what impact NAC itself may of actually had if you were able to discontinue it without regressing your condition. Perhaps it just provided enough cysteine to create a Glutathione spike which supported that initial B12 uptake. Spitballing here.

This is from Metabolic maintenance

Another function of glutathione is to protect vitamin B-12 from reacting with toxins. When B-12 reacts with toxins, it cannot perform its metabolic tasks. One of its primary roles is being a precursor for a reaction that takes place at the junction of the methylation cycle and the folate cycle. If this reaction slows down due to a lack of active B-12, as a result of glutathione deficiency, it affects both these cycles. Therefore, low glutathione levels can contribute to the inefficiency of methylation, creating a vicious cycle and further depleting one’s glutathione levels. A simplified explanation is that some of the homocysteine produced during methylation reactions is used to make cysteine, which is then combined with two other amino acids (glutamate and glycine) to form glutathione

A vicious cycle indeed it seems!

I Do think the user Freshhope who was the last to post in this thread before you revived it was right in that we should try to pool some specific gene results on here over time as even if this particular combination might not work for everyone i'm beginning to think that a large proportion of these phantombreath cases that everyone develops their own complex reasons for, might be tracable back to some gene malfunction. Even the people with furry tongues or convinced its something really surface level. Hell, years ago when I was lost in the wilderness of aimless researching I was obssessed thinking I had some sort of biofilm covering some kind of bacteria in my sinus because a CT scan showed a small mucus buildup in one sinus and I wanted to get Balloon sinuplasty to clear it out! Thank god they turned me away as I see how desperate and foolish I was!

[mauricio]

Can only imagine it's something to do with bioavailibility? Or maybe thaat's specific to their particular protocol.

Pretty sure it's about bioavailability and not having to do with his specific protocol. The person who runs that site is a PhD biochemistry iirc.

SELENBP1

That SELENBP1 paper has been around in here for ages user KL literally went nuts about it, I even tracked down its authors to have him tested Still got the emails in the archive. No idea why they'd charge $400ish for it when other companies have your DNA tested for $100. If you have a look at CFS forums it's full of people with changes in DNA polymorphisms in their signatures.
The good news is I think we can compensate for those polymorphisms adjusting our regimes.

were these 'other things' the B12 and Molyb? I'm just wondering about what impact NAC itself may of actually had if you were able to discontinue it without regressing your condition. Perhaps it just provided enough cysteine to create a Glutathione spike which supported that initial B12 uptake. Spitballing here.

b12 yes, moly no, its shipping arrived much later. I was taking several B vitamins, iodine and selenium tho I suspect not the form suggested on that site.
Yes that's something possible.

Hell, years ago when I was lost in the wilderness of aimless researching I was obssessed thinking I had some sort of biofilm covering some kind of bacteria in my sinus because a CT scan showed a small mucus buildup in one sinus and I wanted to get Balloon sinuplasty to clear it out! Thank god they turned me away as I see how desperate and foolish I was!

Last year I was about to call a surgeon in another city to have my LES surgically closed

[simple]

Hi Freshhope, does this mutation cause inefficient cysteine synthesis and hence, inefficient glutathione synthesis? How have you been dealing with it? Thank you in advance!

I been doing so much testing and research. I did some gene analysis and had a match for the exact same gene rs1021737 and TT Allele it’s actually quite a rare gene to have but not much information regarding it. If anyone interested in doing some comparisons I really think it’s worth looking at. It’s really hard to solve this without people to compare off with the same issue. So any motivated people please add any comments or pm

The function of this gene is involved in the trans-sulfuration pathway from methionine to cysteine

[simple]

Mauricio, same with me... I also had several mercury poisonings / exposures to high amounts and tonsillectomy
Thank you for sharing what you’ve learnt, the fact that you’ve managed to find the issue and tackle it is admirable!

Are you taking anything now: NAC, b12, molybdenum? Also, b1, b6 maybe?

Hi Ethan, thanks for the message.
I wish I had cracked the puzzle, there's still CFS to overcome, as you'll see even from the small sample in the thread I've opened the two things can go hand in hand.
I had bb from nose as well, never realized it until I got a comment, you know when a friend shows you something on his cell phone and you get close, I always thought as long as I had my mouth shut I'd be fine and then he commented about me having had some drinks or something, which I hadn't of course. In my last months before taking care of it the fumes I was emanating were just ridiculous, could have spat fire had I lit a lighter before my mouth.
I was exposed to mercury in my dental amalgams, god knows the extent of the consequences that had on my health, I can tell you my bb started not too late after that at 13-14ish. So I've been clueless for more than 20 years, thinking it had oral cause, whether it be teeth or tongue. It's extremely easy to mistake the fumes we get with a smelly tongue cause we stick it out and we have a feel of such fumes. Like I said in the last months they were so powerful that it made no sense whatsoever for them to be caused by the tongue. The irony of it is I even had tongue bacteria-related bb ON TOP of the regular bb, but that was very easy to spot and a simple tongue swab and course of antibiotics made it go away. So people in other threads swearing they have some mysterious tongue bacteria... c'mon.
Back to me being clueless I had the tonsils taken out unfortunately, which again relates to poor functioning processes having our lymphs compromised. Just to give you an idea of stubbornness for months and months I was then convinced the bb was caused by sub-lingual tonsils which thank god the ETN said were ok and wouldn't remove them.
I'll spare you the whole hiatal hernia misdiagnosis details.

What clicked were transsulfuration pathway videos, SIBO as protective adaptation from not being able to provide my body with sulfate via the 'regular' ways. Glutathione is involved in the methylation cycle, the various supplements I'm taking to encourage it have had an effect on transsulfuration too and made sulfate production through the regular pathways possible again.
Interaction between supplements and the methylation cycle is rather complicated and that's what I've been dedicating myself to in the last weeks. So here I'm pointing to a direction, each one has to do his research in trying to understand what's not working.
I'm likely deficient in b12 consiering that chewing effect I observed, but that's just a small piece of the puzzle.
I'm supplementing molyb at suggested doses, I think it's important to try and get the whole picture other than the singular supplement.
I haven't even started mercury chelation yet, have to undergo a CT scan to see if there's any mercury left after unsafe removal... There's really a myriad of things to take into account, the CFS forum has a big load of infos on methylation.