next step up from dentist

[roam1]

hi, mabye someone in UK who has knowledge of healthcare system can help?

after a negatvie sibo test, not sure where to go now. not sure cause of my BB, but have definite gastro issues, but everything comes bakc negative. smell and bad taste from from mouth- dentists always say my hygiene is excellent and mouth is fine. meds prior to sibo relieved all symptons, but immediately returned after they finished

my doctor was supportive to escalate to see gasterontolgoist when i complained of this with him- if i wanted to challenge dentist, is there an intituse or 'next stage up' that i could go to? NHS dentist is not acknowledging a problem. i wanted them to chekc my fillings i had a child, but they said there werent any, this makes me suspicious of their expertise------ they do not cause pain or noticeable smell when flossing in that area, but at a loss of ideas now.

[TomHappyHippy]

Hi roam1

I'm also in the UK

My research has led me to believe that the sinuses are the route of the problem, chronic sinusitis with post nasal drip

I'm about to book in to see an ENT in London called the Harley Street ENT, they have a specific treatment plan for bb involving antibiotics, looks interesting but expensive

I'm in the south east, where abouts in the UK are you?

It would be good to make some friends on this forum

Kind regards
Tom

[roam1]

hi
i went through a similar route about a decade ago, having sinuses drained a couple of times, and following strict cleansing routine. but sadly didnt work for me, hope you have some luck with it.
harley street will be expensive, i did mine through the NHS, had to wait a bit but was thorough when it got going.
based in london

[TomHappyHippy]

from what I've read this ENT seems like a new approach to treating bb, will let you know how it goes, going to book an appointment for as soon as possible

chronically infected sinuses with mucus draining into the throat and onto the tonsils is the route of the problem I think, there are people with teeth rotting away and yet no bb and us with good brushing have it
Is there any more insights you've picked up studying the issue?

I'm in the south east

Would be good to chat

I really think people on this forum need to support each other more, more talk of friendship and optimism is needed

[simple]

Hi Roam1 and Tom,
I have been rigorously collecting information online from others experiencing bb and from published research studies for years now. By far the majority of people on this forum with chronic bb lasting for years and decades don’t have halitosis originating in the mouth or sinuses. Those with problems originating there are able to solve them relatively easy - such as those who had a story of solving bb by tonsillectomy or removing teeth with infected root canals. The intraoral origin of halitosis can be solved by visits to dentists, parodontologists, ENT specialists. I looked up your (Roam1) previous posts and you have already been on that path. If the issue originated there, it would have been solved. Have you done: xray (dental); mouth microbiota swab; CT of sinuses; tonsills check? Also, one user here was cured by Anoro Ellipta, which is the medication for Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease. If you just have PND or some (common) sinusitis, that would NOT cause a DEBILITATING !CONSTANT! bad breath that would affect your life to such an extent to go on this forum. From reading stories of people whose bb was intraoral in origin, they reported the “shitty taste” (not sour) exacerbated by food consumption; but most importantly, their symptoms were relieved by some sort of desinfectant (hydrogen peroxide, chlorhexidine). For example, the user cured by A.E. reported being able to “hide” bb with the use of hydrogen peroxide for a couple hours, so that she was able to get married maintaining this extreme hygiene.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21386205/

Therefore, do a test: use (diluted) hydrogen peroxide/chlorhexidine to gargle; brush tongue with brush soaked in desinfectant reaching as far back as possible; use nose rinse with added antibacterias (the ones designed for sinusitis). Then look for whether the bb disappears / significantly reduces. For extraoral halitosis this extra desinfection or any hygiene doesn’t make a difference.

Can your bb be felt from far away? Do you get less negative reactions when you don’t talk & keep your mouth closed? Do you stop getting reactions when you hold your breath? Does the air in the (unventilated) room you’re in start to smell different? Do you get PATM reactions: sneezing, coughing, nose rubs? When you breathe out/in - does it coincide with those reactions?

You wrote in one of your previous posts: “my SIBO results came back negative. i had been on antibiotics prior to the test with my doctor and symptoms cleared whilst on them, then immediately reappeared when meds finished. with this new negative diagnostic, having always thought it was my gut, i feel i should look back at my mouth.”

This is an extremely common issue among bb community, it is one of THE MOST frequently reported pattern: antibiotics offer temporary help. Antibiotics mechanism of action implies they reduce the quantity & diversity of gut microbiota and hence, reduce their products (VOCs for exmaple); they can be used as a temporary help for SIBO, IMO, TMAU, Selen-bp1, leaky gut, abnormal shifts in gut flora, metabolic abnormalities. There are interesting research studies conducted with the support of MEBO on the differences in metabolic substances in people with chronic halitosis, some of them are still in progress. I’m just touching the tip of an iceberg here.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 1.full.pdf

Bottom line: most people with chronic constant halitosis seek out some common relatively benign causes and look for answers that are TOO CONVENIENT & SIMPLE. They ignore the fact that those commonly recognised conditions are prevalent among people without constant bb or with milder/ intermittent bb. They think too optimistically. Ironically, this optimism is the reason everyone with bb have been to a lot of doctors/dentists who are unable to help, because their vision is skewed towards common & simpler cases, not solving your bb.

PS I’m also in UK

[TomHappyHippy]

Hi Simple

You make some good points above, seems that you have done alot of research into the subject

I have tonsil stones and constant mucus in the nose and throat so I'm 90% sure these are the sources of my bb

It's just so hard to find an e.n.t who wants to help me solve this issue though

Good to see you are in the UK

Hope you are ok and are holding up dealing with this issue

[simple]

Hi Tom,
I also used to think my bb was caused by tonsil stones, but like majority on this website say: there was no improvement after tonsillectomy. That being said, tonsil stones reek, so it’s best to remove them anyway, whether they are the major cause or not. Do you struggle to get a doctor who’d agree to do the surgery? Do you have intraoral or extraoral (nasal) bb? Do you get PATM reactions? How far away can it be noticed? Have you tried the test I described in previous post?

I’m barely “holding up” but thank you Today a cashier broke out laughing at me for buying toilet paper, which is a minor everyday occurence. I hope you are treated not too badly.

Hi Simple

You make some good points above, seems that you have done alot of research into the subject

I have tonsil stones and constant mucus in the nose and throat so I'm 90% sure these are the sources of my bb

It's just so hard to find an e.n.t who wants to help me solve this issue though

Good to see you are in the UK

Hope you are ok and are holding up dealing with this issue

[TomHappyHippy]

Hi Simple

My bb definitely originates from the sinuses

People can notice it from quite a distance, I've somehow started to accept it and I'm trying to reach out to people but it's hard for me

I haven't tried the test above yet but will do

In terms of treatment I'm just brushing with bicarbonate soda, not really getting to the route of the issue at the moment

I get treated badly sometimes aswell , sorry to read about the rude cashier

That's why I think we need to really support each other

I'm in the south east of the UK, where abouts are you?

[simple]

On bb that originates from the sinuses - that’s called blood-borne extraoral halitosis, where the smell comes from you breathing out.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21386205/

I’m not in UK currently, not sure where I’ll live in near future.

Hi Simple

My bb definitely originates from the sinuses

People can notice it from quite a distance, I've somehow started to accept it and I'm trying to reach out to people but it's hard for me

I haven't tried the test above yet but will do

In terms of treatment I'm just brushing with bicarbonate soda, not really getting to the route of the issue at the moment

I get treated badly sometimes aswell , sorry to read about the rude cashier

That's why I think we need to really support each other

I'm in the south east of the UK, where abouts are you?

[Emanuela hoxha]

I dont understand why we have tonsil stones , post nasal drip and problems with the gut and also stomach and also bb , most of the cases i have seen far have samee problema can these all be related to only one disease maybe