BB Theory to share

[searching]

Dear all,

I spent years confused regarding products, theories, and claims about solving bb. These products are aimed at killing the bacteria. Instead we should starve them. Making a dietary change, simple as it sounds, is challenging to do, but it can be done, and for me it works. I encourage anyone interested to do a test, by purifying their diet, which may take a few days to produce a convincing result. When you notice that it works, you will then have the answer and you will be in control.

I have a theory, which for me, is working. It assumes that the person with bb is otherwise healthy. Here it is:

BB results from two necessary things.
1. A food source, i.e. nutrient-rich saliva, with the potential to become foul-smelling when it comes in contact with certain bacteria that convert this food source to offensive-smelling gases.
2. Certain species of bacteria growing in the mouths of people.

If we get rid of either single item in the list above, we eliminate bb, i.e. we either starve the bacteria by denying them those foods with potential to “spoil’ in ones mouth, or, we kill all of the offending bacterial while keeping the food source present.

I have found that, for the long-term, it is easier to keep the offensive bacteria population low by starving them, versus the need to kill them, several times daily, with poison/chemicals.

I am becoming convinced that those of us with bb can best manage the condition by altering our diet, i.e. limiting certain food intake, rather than killing the offensive bacteria. Said another way: create saliva with low-levels of material that can “spoil”.

Here’s why:

I have read that many of us, myself included, have tried poisoning, thus temporarily killing, the bacteria by using mild or harsh chemicals to accomplish the goal, i.e. mouthwash or antibacterial soaps (quaternary ammonium salts, phenols, chlorinedioxide, etc), or by taking antibiotics. This, sometimes, gives temporary relief, but it may be a lost war because the climate in our mouths is friendly to the offending bacteria as the poison eventually rinses away while we continue to feed the few remaining bacteria with nutrient-rich saliva. These few remaining bacteria rapidly reproduce and repopulate our mouths, sometimes within minutes or hours. This is why we are burning our tongues with corrosive chemicals, or over-brushing our teeth and tongues without achieving a clean-smelling result.

I think the solution is to forever-starve the offensive bacteria by continuously producing nutrient-lean saliva, i.e. we each should eat just the foods and just a certain amount of each type of food that our bodies can use, with little excess left over. If we do this the oral population of organisms will rebalance and our noses and taste can tell us when we each, individually, get it right.

We all need animal protein; however, I believe many with bb are eating too much each day, thus feeding the offensive oral bacteria with nutrient-rich saliva. Therefore I believe we can control it by adjusting what, and how much, we eat. It differs for each individual. This is my theory. I welcome your comments.

The steps I use in my oral care routine are listed in an earlier, recent posting entitled: Some additional steps to traditional oral hygiene routine.

[mike987]

could you compile a list of all the foods you eat?

in all these lists, there seems to be an overwhelming amount of everyday foods, or foods that you think would be in compliance with good breath, but you shouldn't eat


personally, my metabolism is very fast, so i have a hard time keeping weight.. i also exercise a few times in the week, but mostly just weight lifting recently (during summer i get out and run and bike).. i've already removed 95% of all dairy in my diet (i used to drink several glasses of milk a day) and i eat meat as minimally as i can (i also used to eat whey protein powder twice a day).. most of my meals are healthy kinds of cereal .. i can't imagine cutting meat out of my diet completely.. i don't really have money to buy a strict diet of food, so sometimes i just have to eat what's served at my family's houses.



i've got a laundry list of bb related problems.. hairy tongue, very cryptic tonsils, bad allergies, constantly blocked sinuses, PND, and i've become more recently aware of a sewery smell (though i remember comments long before i knew about it, that suggest that i've had that smell longer than i thought).. so i think i have at least two types of bad breath. I'm awaiting the possibly distant day when i'll be able to afford surgery on my tonsils (and ask about nasal polyps and adenoids while i'm at it) as i've already been approved by an ENT to have it done to eliminate the tonsil stone breath.. This sewer smell I'll just have to keep at bay until I tackle the first bb problem.. Often though, I think the sewer smell might be related to nasal polyps or adenoids.. and maybe the smell carries through the rest of my body because it's in the mucus that runs down my throat from my sinuses.. Uugh..

[searching]

Hi Mike987,

I eat fruit, vegetables, yogurt, starch such as pasta, potatoes, rice, corn, bread, cake, cookies. etc. I eat small amounts of animal protein, trying to keep it below 4 ounces per day. If I maintain low animal protein intake my bb ranges from none up to an occasional low level. I think excessive animal protein is my problem so I limit my intake.

[elliott]

Hi Mike987,

I eat fruit, vegetables, yogurt, starch such as pasta, potatoes, rice, corn, bread, cake, cookies. etc. I eat small amounts of animal protein, trying to keep it below 4 ounces per day. If I maintain low animal protein intake my bb ranges from none up to an occasional low level. I think excessive animal protein is my problem so I limit my intake.

Have you ever tested taking the sugar out of the equation? Just curious.

Thanks for the theory. Very clear and sensible.

[greenman]

I suggest taking pro-biotics in the form of yogurt such as activia. It changed the smell of my BB, it is better now but still bad ofcourse. The true upside is I feel much better.

[mike987]

searching, would 100% whey protein powder be okay to eat in place of meat?

[Ahmad]

Hi! With me it all started with gas, bloating, and some weird sounds coming from my stomach, when i was 17. that was normal but was very embarrassing during the classes, and I was wondering all the time was other students hearing it or it was only me.

Yes I agree that the main cause of the bb, is imbalance b/w bad bacteria and so called good one. But I think the following:
1. The balance b/w bad and good bacteria is destroyed because of a problem in digestive system, which creates an ideal environment for bad bacteria to over grow and beat the good bacteria. Unless this problem in the digestive system is fixed nothing will help permanently.
2. We all know that even with the normal person…when the food reach the colon, it starts to decompose, and start producing gases. WHAT CAUSES THAT??
That is the bacteria afcaurse. But why it happens in colon only? Well we can say that in the colon the environment is helping the bad bacteria to multiply rapidly, first because there are no enzymes is produced there, secondly because the indigested food rests there for some time. So if this same situation takes place in any where else, i mean if a food kept in a place with no sufficient enzymes to digest it, what will happen? The answer is simple, bacteria will do the job, it will digit the food and produce foul gases. And that’s a common sense. Now when the body does not digest and absorb some food in the small intestine, because of a shortage or absence of certain enzymes, a huge amount of gases will be produced in result, CAN THIS GASES ABSORBED TO THE BODY? AND IF YES HOW THE BODY WILL RELEASE THE GASES? For the answers see this link http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/gas/. Which states that the gas is really absorbed in the small intestine and, this gases are released through the lungs.
So all I want to say is that it is not a problem of a special kind of bacteria which we have and others do not, but it is a problem of environment which causes a number of certain bacteria gas producing to increase in our body due to problem in our digestive system..


3. There are some problems caused by bad breath, and not the opposite. Like allergy, blocked noise, gastric problems, continues slight cough…and others

4. There are some problems which increase the bad breath, but not the real cause of it, like tonsils stones, dirty mouth, noise and digestive track. In fact all these problems have the same cause of the chronic halitosis bad breath, and they increase the bb, but not the actual cause, if they were the only, our bad breath would not be detected from few meters, and also even normal ppl have this thinks sometimes(like tonsils stones, dirty mouth in the morning) but their breath smell is not as bad as in our case.

5. The odor of the smell changes from time to time depending on the indigested food present in the intestine, if some one lacks some particular enzymes then he would have a particular smell associated with the decomposition of the food which is normally digested by the enzyme(s) he lacks, if he has over all deficiency of the enzymes then he would have different kinds of smells depending on the food he eats.
It’s also possible that the deficiency may not be directly in the enzymes but in stomach acid which is needed to digest protein. [The acid activates an enzyme, pepsin, which breaks down the protein we eat. If there is insufficient stomach acid, hair, skin, and nails become weak and deficiencies of vital hormones, enzymes, and neurotransmitters can result.
Stomach acid helps keep the digestive tract free of unwanted bacteria and yeast.]
Please read more in following post http://www.badbreathhalitosis.com/artic ... CauseofBad
last thing i want to say is this bb, start with many or most of us at age 15,16, 17, 18. doesn't that make sense?? what is the impact of some Harmonies on the digestive system??
do bb increases with you after sex??

Thanks all, that’s all I can write for now.

[searching]

Mike987 & Elloitt,

I think any type of protein, i.e. meat, milk, whey, vegetable, is okay if the daily amount is limited. Recall that the average daily adult requirement of protein is about 50 grams. I consume protein daily; however, I limit the amount.

I do consume food and drink that contain table sugar, i.e. sweetened coffee, occasional soft drink, desserts, etc. For me the intake of sugar is less of a problem than excessive protein.

I find the most effective foods, that keep bb from surfacing, are complex carbohydrates that release slowly and steadily over time between meals, i.e. starches such as pasta bread, potaotes, rice, other grains, etc. Fruit and yogurt are helpful to me as well.

This diet can be boring; however, it provides me control over bb. Now that I have found the limits of my nutritional needs I understand that eating an excess of certain foods produces a bb result; so, I can control it when necessary.

[greenman]

Hi! With me it all started with gas, bloating, and some weird sounds coming from my stomach, when i was 17. that was normal but was very embarrassing during the classes, and I was wondering all the time was other students hearing it or it was only me.

Yes I agree that the main cause of the bb, is imbalance b/w bad bacteria and so called good one. But I think the following:
1. The balance b/w bad and good bacteria is destroyed because of a problem in digestive system, which creates an ideal environment for bad bacteria to over grow and beat the good bacteria. Unless this problem in the digestive system is fixed nothing will help permanently.
2. We all know that even with the normal person…when the food reach the colon, it starts to decompose, and start producing gases. WHAT CAUSES THAT??
That is the bacteria afcaurse. But why it happens in colon only? Well we can say that in the colon the environment is helping the bad bacteria to multiply rapidly, first because there are no enzymes is produced there, secondly because the indigested food rests there for some time. So if this same situation takes place in any where else, i mean if a food kept in a place with no sufficient enzymes to digest it, what will happen? The answer is simple, bacteria will do the job, it will digit the food and produce foul gases. And that’s a common sense. Now when the body does not digest and absorb some food in the small intestine, because of a shortage or absence of certain enzymes, a huge amount of gases will be produced in result, CAN THIS GASES ABSORBED TO THE BODY? AND IF YES HOW THE BODY WILL RELEASE THE GASES? For the answers see this link http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/gas/. Which states that the gas is really absorbed in the small intestine and, this gases are released through the lungs.
So all I want to say is that it is not a problem of a special kind of bacteria which we have and others do not, but it is a problem of environment which causes a number of certain bacteria gas producing to increase in our body due to problem in our digestive system..


3. There are some problems caused by bad breath, and not the opposite. Like allergy, blocked noise, gastric problems, continues slight cough…and others

4. There are some problems which increase the bad breath, but not the real cause of it, like tonsils stones, dirty mouth, noise and digestive track. In fact all these problems have the same cause of the chronic halitosis bad breath, and they increase the bb, but not the actual cause, if they were the only, our bad breath would not be detected from few meters, and also even normal ppl have this thinks sometimes(like tonsils stones, dirty mouth in the morning) but their breath smell is not as bad as in our case.

5. The odor of the smell changes from time to time depending on the indigested food present in the intestine, if some one lacks some particular enzymes then he would have a particular smell associated with the decomposition of the food which is normally digested by the enzyme(s) he lacks, if he has over all deficiency of the enzymes then he would have different kinds of smells depending on the food he eats.
It’s also possible that the deficiency may not be directly in the enzymes but in stomach acid which is needed to digest protein. [The acid activates an enzyme, pepsin, which breaks down the protein we eat. If there is insufficient stomach acid, hair, skin, and nails become weak and deficiencies of vital hormones, enzymes, and neurotransmitters can result.
Stomach acid helps keep the digestive tract free of unwanted bacteria and yeast.]
Please read more in following post http://www.badbreathhalitosis.com/artic ... CauseofBad
last thing i want to say is this bb, start with many or most of us at age 15,16, 17, 18. doesn't that make sense?? what is the impact of some Harmonies on the digestive system??
do bb increases with you after sex??

Thanks all, that’s all I can write for now.

very informative, nothing to disagree with.

so have you been taking probiotics/enzymes/fiber/etc...

fiber helps with my BB by emptying my system. when i'm empty, my BB is not as bad. I'm not taking fiber except in bananas right now but I am on probiotics from yogurt called activia. it's been helping with my overall health, my bb doesn't smell as bad, and i feel like i can't function properly without it. i'll check out enzymes soon.

[mike987]

Mike987 & Elloitt,

I think any type of protein, i.e. meat, milk, whey, vegetable, is okay if the daily amount is limited. Recall that the average daily adult requirement of protein is about 50 grams. I consume protein daily; however, I limit the amount.

I do consume food and drink that contain table sugar, i.e. sweetened coffee, occasional soft drink, desserts, etc. For me the intake of sugar is less of a problem than excessive protein.

I find the most effective foods, that keep bb from surfacing, are complex carbohydrates that release slowly and steadily over time between meals, i.e. starches such as pasta bread, potaotes, rice, other grains, etc. Fruit and yogurt are helpful to me as well.

This diet can be boring; however, it provides me control over bb. Now that I have found the limits of my nutritional needs I understand that eating an excess of certain foods produces a bb result; so, I can control it when necessary.

i was thinking recently 'exactly how much is 50grams of protein?'
then i realized that I probably don't even consume 50 grams each day.. but less! My only source of protein right now would come from maybe a slice of cheese and a couple slices of meat a day.. There's no way that's 50 grams of protein..

A whole can of Tuna is only about 30 grams of protein, so if I eat nothing but that and a few bowls of cereal, can 'excess protein' really be a problem for me?

I want to admit that the peptobismal day and night seems to be helping.. but then again, it's difficult to tell.
Yesterday, I ate a couple bowls of cereal in the morning (not with milk, but always with water)..
At about supper time, I had 3 pieces of an oven cooked pizza (there couldn't have been more than 20 grams between the cheese and bits of pepperoni)
And later, I had another bowl or two of cereal.. And yet today I felt my breath was worse than the last few days.. :/


I'm not going to argue against your theory.. The sulfur thing seems more than possible.. It does actually smell like a sewer from the air coming out of me, and my excretions have a much stronger, but somewhat similar smell.. It does feel like there's too much of this in my body somewhere.. If exercising heavily, I can sometimes smell it in my shirts.
But the thing is, I really am consuming such a minimal amount of protein that it can't be an overabundance.. Could my liver be loaded with sulfur rich toxins constantly?

[Ahmad]

very informative, nothing to disagree with.

so have you been taking probiotics/enzymes/fiber/etc...

fiber helps with my BB by emptying my system. when i'm empty, my BB is not as bad. I'm not taking fiber except in bananas right now but I am on probiotics from yogurt called activia. it's been helping with my overall health, my bb doesn't smell as bad, and i feel like i can't function properly without it. i'll check out enzymes soon.

greanman as i've alredy mentioned in other post i will start this ( using Betaine Hydrochloride(HCL) With Pepsin+ digestive enzymes+probiotics) as soon as possible, maybe after three days, and will try to post the results after a considerable time, i don't want to be fast this time.

[Ahmad]

Mike987 & Elloitt,

I think any type of protein, i.e. meat, milk, whey, vegetable, is okay if the daily amount is limited. Recall that the average daily adult requirement of protein is about 50 grams. I consume protein daily; however, I limit the amount.

I do consume food and drink that contain table sugar, i.e. sweetened coffee, occasional soft drink, desserts, etc. For me the intake of sugar is less of a problem than excessive protein.

I find the most effective foods, that keep bb from surfacing, are complex carbohydrates that release slowly and steadily over time between meals, i.e. starches such as pasta bread, potaotes, rice, other grains, etc. Fruit and yogurt are helpful to me as well.

This diet can be boring; however, it provides me control over bb. Now that I have found the limits of my nutritional needs I understand that eating an excess of certain foods produces a bb result; so, I can control it when necessary.

i was thinking recently 'exactly how much is 50grams of protein?'
then i realized that I probably don't even consume 50 grams each day.. but less! My only source of protein right now would come from maybe a slice of cheese and a couple slices of meat a day.. There's no way that's 50 grams of protein..

A whole can of Tuna is only about 30 grams of protein, so if I eat nothing but that and a few bowls of cereal, can 'excess protein' really be a problem for me?

I want to admit that the peptobismal day and night seems to be helping.. but then again, it's difficult to tell.
Yesterday, I ate a couple bowls of cereal in the morning (not with milk, but always with water)..
At about supper time, I had 3 pieces of an oven cooked pizza (there couldn't have been more than 20 grams between the cheese and bits of pepperoni)
And later, I had another bowl or two of cereal.. And yet today I felt my breath was worse than the last few days.. :/


I'm not going to argue against your theory.. The sulfur thing seems more than possible.. It does actually smell like a sewer from the air coming out of me, and my excretions have a much stronger, but somewhat similar smell.. It does feel like there's too much of this in my body somewhere.. If exercising heavily, I can sometimes smell it in my shirts.
But the thing is, I really am consuming such a minimal amount of protein that it can't be an overabundance.. Could my liver be loaded with sulfur rich toxins constantly?

mike and searching sorry to interrupt you guys but i have to say the following. i think our problem, or let me say the problem of most of us, is not a problem of protein or whatever, it is a problem of what kind of food your body can't digest..and so supplies the bacteria with food, the thing which causes the later to decay., and produce gases. Of course proteins and complex carbohydrates are the worse.. but doesn't mean the other food don't decay, i think they do, and after absorbed into our body and later released by lungs, and some times with the sweat .
unless you have a problem with only protein digesting, like difficulty in with lactose ( milk sugar) due to insufficiency in lactase)... i say unless that there is no point of reducing only proteins..coz the decomposition of other kind of foods will do the job, and produce, well, maybe less smelly than what protein produces but still stinky .
in fact taking less proteins would have a bad affect on your digestive system, because this decreases, further more, the production of enzymes which are nothing but proteins themself.
Ok really feel like i am writing a lot of bala bala, i think i have to start curing thins problem with myself first, then start preaching.

[elliott]

A whole can of Tuna is only about 30 grams of protein, so if I eat nothing but that and a few bowls of cereal, can 'excess protein' really be a problem for me?

I want to admit that the peptobismal day and night seems to be helping.. but then again, it's difficult to tell.
Yesterday, I ate a couple bowls of cereal in the morning (not with milk, but always with water)..
At about supper time, I had 3 pieces of an oven cooked pizza (there couldn't have been more than 20 grams between the cheese and bits of pepperoni)
And later, I had another bowl or two of cereal.. And yet today I felt my breath was worse than the last few days.. :/

Tuna, Pizza with sauce cheese and pepperoni. Dude you are eating stuff that simply will GIVE you horrible breath the next day.. And maybe you should switch to oatmeal? I know you like to work-out... whole oats are way better then cereal.

[Busted]

A whole can of Tuna is only about 30 grams of protein, so if I eat nothing but that and a few bowls of cereal, can 'excess protein' really be a problem for me?

I want to admit that the peptobismal day and night seems to be helping.. but then again, it's difficult to tell.
Yesterday, I ate a couple bowls of cereal in the morning (not with milk, but always with water)..
At about supper time, I had 3 pieces of an oven cooked pizza (there couldn't have been more than 20 grams between the cheese and bits of pepperoni)
And later, I had another bowl or two of cereal.. And yet today I felt my breath was worse than the last few days.. :/

Tuna, Pizza with sauce cheese and pepperoni. Dude you are eating stuff that simply will GIVE you horrible breath the next day.. And maybe you should switch to oatmeal? I know you like to work-out... whole oats are way better then cereal.

hehe, maybe he felt like his breath couldn't get any worse.

[mike987]

A whole can of Tuna is only about 30 grams of protein, so if I eat nothing but that and a few bowls of cereal, can 'excess protein' really be a problem for me?

I want to admit that the peptobismal day and night seems to be helping.. but then again, it's difficult to tell.
Yesterday, I ate a couple bowls of cereal in the morning (not with milk, but always with water)..
At about supper time, I had 3 pieces of an oven cooked pizza (there couldn't have been more than 20 grams between the cheese and bits of pepperoni)
And later, I had another bowl or two of cereal.. And yet today I felt my breath was worse than the last few days.. :/

Tuna, Pizza with sauce cheese and pepperoni. Dude you are eating stuff that simply will GIVE you horrible breath the next day.. And maybe you should switch to oatmeal? I know you like to work-out... whole oats are way better then cereal.

hehe, maybe he felt like his breath couldn't get any worse.

hah alright guys.. the tuna was a one time thing.. i honestly didn't really care much at that point.. because no matter what's in diet nothing seems to help.. And fish is certainly healthier than red meat right?


but pray tell, what the f*ck do you guys eat daily? how do you get protein? I can't call off of it completely. should i eat salami? processed crap like that? i don't think that would be any better.

The only reason I eat cereal is because it's the healthiest thing i can regularly consume.. the cereal i eat isn't loaded with sugar or that marshmellowy chocolatey bullshit.. I try to eat the healthier ones with fruit, nuts, etc ..


Am i suppose to eat a salad 5 times a day?

Seriously, what do you people eat? Actually, and be honest here, what did all of your meals consist of yesterday and today?