All,
This technique is working for me for several weeks thus far. I strongly encourage trying it to observe its effect for yourself.
The following is a bit graphic. I think the details are important to share.
Every morning, after brushing and flossing, I perform nasal irrigation. It’s done in the shower and it has allowed me to make a useful observation. I expel the discharge from my mouth and it streams downward. I have observed that after the irrigation is finished, the discharged mucus solution clings to, and covers, my chest. It is a clear, slippery liquid. The important point is that there is a significant amount of material that is removed from my sinuses each morning. The nasal irrigation therefore successfully empties the mucus from my sinuses, thus starving the oral bacteria, on my tongue, throat, and tonsils for the remainder of the day, by thinning, and reducing, the post nasal drip (PND).
I would not have observed the quantity of mucosal discharge if I had done this over a sink.
Before I started this technique I doubted that my PND was the source of my bb, since my PND was clear and odorless. I have no allergies and I live in a clean environment. However, I now believe that the constant PND, that many with bb naturally produce, was steadily feeding the oral bacteria that produced bb. This supported an oral bacterial population that quickly returned, shortly after brushing and flossing, and grew throughout the day.
I do Stage 2 nasal irrigation which means that I carefully send the irrigation solution into my nostrils while my head is tilted back, to gently fill my nasal cavity, and suck it backwards into my mouth, then spit it out, repeatedly, until I use all of the solution (half the batch through each nostril). Each morning I mix, and completely use a solution made of: one (1) liter of warm water, ¼ teaspoon table salt and ¼ teaspoon of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate).
For me this seems to be working. Mucus is a rich, sulfur-containing nutrient for bacteria. If you remove most of it each morning, using thorough nasal irrigation, you will deny the oral bacterial the raw material they need to produce bb.
Twice daily, I brush with regular toothpaste, floss, and use a Tung brush. I do not use mouthwash, nor do I take other medications.
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Nasal Irrigation - I believe it is working
I do this before bed, and in the morning most days. It helps keep things clean until noon. It's better than not doing it at all for sure, no question.
I put the nozzle down my throat and spray until I get the hacking. I do the nostrils as well, but I don't think it's as effective, but it does clear out any old mucous coming from up top. PND or not, the sinuses are connected.
I put the nozzle down my throat and spray until I get the hacking. I do the nostrils as well, but I don't think it's as effective, but it does clear out any old mucous coming from up top. PND or not, the sinuses are connected.
Yes,
Just a few points:
I have found the water solution, using salt and baking soda, is much better than using water alone.
Secondly, for me, the nasal irrigation, using the full one (1) liter solution, is far more effective than the oral rinsing. The key is to gently, yet fully, flood all regions of the nasal cavity with the salt & baking soda solution, to ensure that as much mucus as possible is soaked, thinned, and removed. The 1-liter, nasal irrigation process takes 1 to 2 minutes with practice.
Be careful not to injure eardrums. I use a plastic squeeze bottle to gently deliver the irrigation solution.
Just a few points:
I have found the water solution, using salt and baking soda, is much better than using water alone.
Secondly, for me, the nasal irrigation, using the full one (1) liter solution, is far more effective than the oral rinsing. The key is to gently, yet fully, flood all regions of the nasal cavity with the salt & baking soda solution, to ensure that as much mucus as possible is soaked, thinned, and removed. The 1-liter, nasal irrigation process takes 1 to 2 minutes with practice.
Be careful not to injure eardrums. I use a plastic squeeze bottle to gently deliver the irrigation solution.
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Jimi Stein
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Hopeful,
Yes, a Neti Pot will work. I use a plastic squeeze bottle as it lets me gently send small amouts of solution, a little at a time.
The effective results from the method make logical sense to me. Consider that when someone first cleans their mouth by brushing and flossing, they are still in jeopardy of bb since PND immediately resumes feeding the remaining bb bacteria living/hiding in the tongue and throat. Stage 2 Nasal Irrigation sweeps the mucus from the nose and sinuses thus starving the bb bacteria and, for me, that bacterial population decrease to acceptably low levels.
The mucus contains bound sulfur in the form of cystiene that is released as VSC's by bacteria. The nasal irrigation rids the nose and sinuses of much of the mucus that builds up overnight.
Stage 2 nasal irrigation involves sending the lukewarm water, salt, and baking soda solution into the nose, then sucked back into the mouth and orally expelled. I do this until no more mucus is released from the sinuses, i.e., one (1) liter of solution. It takes some practice to avoid coughing; however, it can be done. Mastering the technique really pays off.
For me, passing the solution into the nostrils, then out through the mouth, in small repeated batches (until the full 1 liter of solution has entered and exited through this pathway, in by nose, out by mouth), is key. It is best for cleaning the sinuses and removing the mucus, thus decreasing PND. The technique is called Stage 2 Nasal Irrigation, aka: Stage 2 Jala Neti. This method floods the nasal cavity and sinuses to dislodge and remove the majority of mucus at once, rather than having it bathe the throat throughout the day.
There are sites on the Internet that descibe the Stage 2 technique which has been used for centuries. Please note that the salt and baking soda solution seems more effective than warm water alone.
Yes, a Neti Pot will work. I use a plastic squeeze bottle as it lets me gently send small amouts of solution, a little at a time.
The effective results from the method make logical sense to me. Consider that when someone first cleans their mouth by brushing and flossing, they are still in jeopardy of bb since PND immediately resumes feeding the remaining bb bacteria living/hiding in the tongue and throat. Stage 2 Nasal Irrigation sweeps the mucus from the nose and sinuses thus starving the bb bacteria and, for me, that bacterial population decrease to acceptably low levels.
The mucus contains bound sulfur in the form of cystiene that is released as VSC's by bacteria. The nasal irrigation rids the nose and sinuses of much of the mucus that builds up overnight.
Stage 2 nasal irrigation involves sending the lukewarm water, salt, and baking soda solution into the nose, then sucked back into the mouth and orally expelled. I do this until no more mucus is released from the sinuses, i.e., one (1) liter of solution. It takes some practice to avoid coughing; however, it can be done. Mastering the technique really pays off.
For me, passing the solution into the nostrils, then out through the mouth, in small repeated batches (until the full 1 liter of solution has entered and exited through this pathway, in by nose, out by mouth), is key. It is best for cleaning the sinuses and removing the mucus, thus decreasing PND. The technique is called Stage 2 Nasal Irrigation, aka: Stage 2 Jala Neti. This method floods the nasal cavity and sinuses to dislodge and remove the majority of mucus at once, rather than having it bathe the throat throughout the day.
There are sites on the Internet that descibe the Stage 2 technique which has been used for centuries. Please note that the salt and baking soda solution seems more effective than warm water alone.
actually I use 1 liter for mouth and about .5 for the nostrils. I've found over the year that cleansing the mouth (tonsils) temporarily eliminates that bad taste, and 'lump' feeling.
When I do the nostrils, I do about 20 seconds in every direction. The nasal passages can trap mucous everywhere, so you want to tilt forward, backwards, left and right. Most important, as said is the head back position, where the fluid runs into the nostrils and down the passage to the mouth.
I wouldn't do plain water at all. It has an abrasive feel, and can get be a painful experience. The body is naturally salty so you need to temper your solution. I use more than 1/4, I use about 3/4... I'm not swallowing it anyway, and I have a feeling that salt is halitosis' good friend. When done properly, irrigation feels good and is fun too!
When I do the nostrils, I do about 20 seconds in every direction. The nasal passages can trap mucous everywhere, so you want to tilt forward, backwards, left and right. Most important, as said is the head back position, where the fluid runs into the nostrils and down the passage to the mouth.
I wouldn't do plain water at all. It has an abrasive feel, and can get be a painful experience. The body is naturally salty so you need to temper your solution. I use more than 1/4, I use about 3/4... I'm not swallowing it anyway, and I have a feeling that salt is halitosis' good friend. When done properly, irrigation feels good and is fun too!
I use this. The only thing is that you have to do it over the sink, you can't do it in a shower. It's also a bit of a hassle to pull out 2wice a day.Larc400 wrote:What do you use to irrigate the throat from the 'oral direction'..? A 'neti pot'? Or some electric irrigator? Or something else?
http://www.hydromedonline.com/
I have the same machine as Elliot for irrigation-I do think it helps, but I think Searching is on to something with the stage 2 nasal wash thing. I find it hard to do though! I've been using a bulb syringe(sp?) for it, but I think the squirt bottle method may be better. I can do it a couple of times, then I choke or swallow salt water-I haven't mastered the technique. I wish we could figure out why we're so screwed up though. Other people have pnd and don't stink. Why does the bacteria do this in us? I took a lot of antibiotics years ago and often wonder if I did this to myself.
After using this technique for about 2 months I can now say, with confidence, it is definitely working for me. It has become a part of my morning routine and it provides effective and satisfying results.
As I think about the cause and effect of the source of my bb, this treatment makes logical sense. The Stage 2 nasal irrigation removes the source of thick, viscous PND and therefore starves the oral bacteria that ordinarily produce VSCs.
I still have my tonsils and adenoids and, for years, have often produced tonsil stones and had chronic bb. Since practicing Stage 2 nasal irrigation, using an isotonic or hypertonic solution of table salt and baking soda (and sometimes included alum), the tonsil stone production has stopped and the bb subsided.
Professionally I am a scientific researcher (B.S., M.S. & Ph.D.) and I am reluctant to make absolute, matter-of-fact claims; however, for me this technique is so effective I now eagerly perform it each morning without reservation. PND appears to be the cause of my bb, and Stage 2 Nasal Irrigation, aka Jala Neti, Nasal Lavage, appears to provide the remedy.
In western culture we’re taught only to brush and floss. There is no mainstream advertising or instruction for nasal irrigation, likely due to no commercial profits available for personal care product producers. My mother and father didn’t know about Stage 2 Nasal Irrigation so it never became part of my personal hygiene routine. I will teach this to my children, as many parents, of other cultures, have.
I do not use mouthwash of any kind. I now deny the bacteria a nutrient source by ridding my throat and tongue of PND, so there is no need to poison the offensive microorganisms. I believe this technique provides a safe and effective weapon against the cause of bb.
A few more thoughts are written here. I have read others suggest that:
1. “Ridding a person of PND causes the oral bacteria to feed on other tissue”. I do not believe this is true unless the person has an active infection. Decreasing PND will likely decrease the parasite population that feed on it.
2. “Other people have PND and they do not have bb, therefore PND isn’t the cause of my bb”. I believe this may be false as PND may vary in amount, composition, viscosity, and duration in various individuals. My PND is often viscous and my sinuses have difficulty draining promptly when I stand upright after waking. I believe it is the slow, steady, long-term delivery of PND that enables a bacterial population to establish a home in the mouth of someone like me, i.e. feeding time 24/7.
3. “My PND is clear and odorless; therefore, it is not the cause of my bb”. I think this may be false, as, for some of us, the bb occurs in the mouth after the PND mucus feeds the offending, opportunistic, oral bacteria.
As I think about the cause and effect of the source of my bb, this treatment makes logical sense. The Stage 2 nasal irrigation removes the source of thick, viscous PND and therefore starves the oral bacteria that ordinarily produce VSCs.
I still have my tonsils and adenoids and, for years, have often produced tonsil stones and had chronic bb. Since practicing Stage 2 nasal irrigation, using an isotonic or hypertonic solution of table salt and baking soda (and sometimes included alum), the tonsil stone production has stopped and the bb subsided.
Professionally I am a scientific researcher (B.S., M.S. & Ph.D.) and I am reluctant to make absolute, matter-of-fact claims; however, for me this technique is so effective I now eagerly perform it each morning without reservation. PND appears to be the cause of my bb, and Stage 2 Nasal Irrigation, aka Jala Neti, Nasal Lavage, appears to provide the remedy.
In western culture we’re taught only to brush and floss. There is no mainstream advertising or instruction for nasal irrigation, likely due to no commercial profits available for personal care product producers. My mother and father didn’t know about Stage 2 Nasal Irrigation so it never became part of my personal hygiene routine. I will teach this to my children, as many parents, of other cultures, have.
I do not use mouthwash of any kind. I now deny the bacteria a nutrient source by ridding my throat and tongue of PND, so there is no need to poison the offensive microorganisms. I believe this technique provides a safe and effective weapon against the cause of bb.
A few more thoughts are written here. I have read others suggest that:
1. “Ridding a person of PND causes the oral bacteria to feed on other tissue”. I do not believe this is true unless the person has an active infection. Decreasing PND will likely decrease the parasite population that feed on it.
2. “Other people have PND and they do not have bb, therefore PND isn’t the cause of my bb”. I believe this may be false as PND may vary in amount, composition, viscosity, and duration in various individuals. My PND is often viscous and my sinuses have difficulty draining promptly when I stand upright after waking. I believe it is the slow, steady, long-term delivery of PND that enables a bacterial population to establish a home in the mouth of someone like me, i.e. feeding time 24/7.
3. “My PND is clear and odorless; therefore, it is not the cause of my bb”. I think this may be false, as, for some of us, the bb occurs in the mouth after the PND mucus feeds the offending, opportunistic, oral bacteria.
