LPR (Silent Reflux) may be one of our common problems

girlie girl · Post by **girlie girl** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:21 pm

The Signs And Symptoms Of Silent Acid Reflux...

- Chronic cough
- Asthma-like symptoms
- Regurgitation
- Sour or bitter flavor in the mouth*
- Frequent need to clear the throat*
- Consistent mucous in the throat*
- Burning sensation or pain in the throat
- Sore throat
- Hoarseness and possible loss of voice
- Difficulty swallowing
- Post-nasal drip*
- Pain in the ear and/or consistent ear infections
- Nausea*
- Heartburn

*All those with an asterick are my reoccurring problems. I am starting to believe this may be my problem.

Otherwise, my gums are in great shape, no sinus problems (confirmed with Cat Scan), had tonsils and adenoids removed, and deviated septum straightened--didn't help much. But, I do have a problem tooth (6 year molar) that has been drilled on since I have been 6 years old.

When I floss, I don't get any bad smell from any of my teeth, but I know I have bad breath (been told many times). My dentist states that my gums are in beautiful shape. I don't build up much plaque either.

Maybe mine could be a combination of LPR and a bad tooth. Who knows????????

iva · Post by **iva** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:39 pm

girlie girl,

I also have these symptoms+lumps in the throat, and have been diagnosed with LPR. I also had my wisdom tooth removed and it proved to have been a contirbutor to bb. But the main reason for bb is the reflux.

Obviously, you have been to ENT. Didn`t he confirm/deny u had LPR?

girlie girl · Post by **girlie girl** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:31 pm

No, never confirmed either way!

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:43 pm

Girlie girl my sister has developed BB in the past couple of years, she is in her 40s.. she has NEVER EVER EVER EVER had bad breath before. But now it smells like mothballs. She doesnt know she has it she is oblivious, but i daren't tell her incase she cant get rid of it and ruins her life like mine did. Every six months she goes for a checkup and every time her dentist plays around with a particular molar of hers. Usually its a repair to the filling - i believe its a root canal and these are notorious for causing problems that can lead to bb if they are not done correctly.. i must discuss it with her to find out more.. you really need to be 100% sure this tooth is correct, believe me, all it takes is one rotten tooth.

Read the story that Archimonde showed recently about the guy whose dentist isolated a particular tooth using a special spray technique - this person had tried everything to find the cause and it finally came down to ONE rotten tooth causing all those years of misery.

My opinion remains that neither acid reflux or PND do not themselves cause BB, but can lead to situations that might.

iva · Post by **iva** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:30 am

halitosisux wrote:My opinion remains that neither acid reflux or PND do not themselves cause BB, but can lead to situations that might.

I agree with that, Halitosisux, because I have a friend with a terrible PND, but he has no bb. My father has bad acid reflux, but no bb. Obviously when acid reflux turns to LPR, this leads to bb.
I am curious what is the relation LPR - bb, I mean if most people with LPR have bb? Unfortunately there is no way to covey such a survey...

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:30 am

Iva, there are so many factors here.
First of all, we all have a natural mucus drainage from the back of the nose, so if mucus/PND itself was the cause of BB then this "soup" of protein-rich mucus on the back of the tongue mixed with oral bacteria would constantly give everyone BB, but it does not because its normally thin enough for this not to happen.

BUT, if this natural mucus was thicker and stickier and more able to stick to the throat and back of the tongue, then it could be enough to make the difference of a perceivable odour buildup. And just as an example, try spitting a glob of "PND" from the throat into a clean plastic dish/container and leave it sealed in a warm place for a couple of hours and see what happens (be prepared to pass out from the smell)

Another important factor is actually determining whether we have normal mucus or not. Most people with BB rinse/brush or scrape their tongue and cause irritation to the very delicate layers which line the throat. The first time i ever brushed my tongue, i almost choked to death from the mucus which thickened up in my throat seemingly out of nowhere - could this itself be a response most people are triggering which they determine to be PND? The awful tastes and everything relating to BB making people conscious of what they feel in their thoat determining its PND? Sometime if the very back of my tongue gets a bit thickened with tongue-coating, i can actually feel it as though its something in my throat, and if i scrape it off that feeling goes. (i dont normally scrape/brush/rinse my tongue or throat)

I think i genuinely have what can be regarded as "PND" because i can acutally feel it coming out of my sinuses mostly, down the back of my nose and throat whenever i try to clear it. Its always clear, but quite thick and never smells at this point. But if it did then i would suspect something bacterial going on inside my nose or sinuses which shouldn't be. I have a mild deviated septum which causes a certain amount of constant congestion on one side of my nose, and im sure this reduced air is responsible for it. But i'm able to clear away this thickened PND so it never causes me a problem regarding BB.

BUT.. as often happens during a cold, whenever the nose becomes congested, the sinuses become blocked and mucus becomes thickened. Someone has recently reported in the forum of their relief from BB from eliminating dairy.. one of the symptoms of dairy intolerance is nasal congestion and subsequently thicker mucus.
LPR can also affect the mucous membranes of the throat and nose/sinuses, so its all possible. But LPR can be ruled out with acid blocking medication taken until symptoms are relieved.

Incidentally, my mum also has a deviated septum and is ALWAYS trying to clear her throat, shes had numerous operations on her nose but its only ever made matters worse. She had BB since i could remember, until about 3 years ago when she had all her teeth removed - now she has breath as clean as a baby - but still the PND. Also my dad has always suffered with acid reflux, but he NEVER has BB, only a curious sour "dryness" smell from time to time. Could it be from the sour taste you describe that you have this odour too, but convinced yourself its a bad smell, when infact it might not be?

iva · Post by **iva** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:11 am

Halitosisux,

u say "LPR can also affect the mucous membranes of the throat and nose/sinuses, so its all possible. But LPR can be ruled out with acid blocking medication taken until symptoms are relieved."

Acid blocking medications do not work very well for me, because I have too much stomach acid and bile reflux. These affect my throat, leading to LPR and multiple lumps (tonsil like lymphoid tissue).
I am planning to try an injection suggested by the ENT - Diprosone, which
will relieve the symptoms in the throat (hopefully bb) but will worsen acid reflux.
I am still not 100% sure this is the scheme of my bb: acid reflux/bile reflux-LPR-bb, but I shall keep on working on that.

Hal · Post by **Hal** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:52 am

Iva,

I definitely think the acid reflux is a contributor to bb. My question is..why do so many people have acid reflux and what is the root cause so we can be cured and not have to spend so much $$$ on ppi. btw, I haven't read why acid reflux and pnd are connected...but I assume that the body is secreting the mucous in order to protect the throat from the acid. I don't think the acid and the mucous combined are going to lead to a very good smell after they sit for a while.

Hal

iva · Post by **iva** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:19 pm

Hal,

do I get it right- u have PND and AR? For how long have u been on PPIs?

Hal · Post by **Hal** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:15 pm

Hi Iva,
I have what I believe is LPR or Acid Reflux without the heartburn. I have been on PPI's for only 2wk courses as recommended on package. I always feel immediate relief from the LPR but the PND doesn't stop. It is always clear and never seems to have a smell...but I have never put any in an air tight container and let it set in a warm room as was mentioned. The LPR always returns within a few days of going off of the PPI's. I just don't want to have to take them for the rest of my life...I also worry about what possible side effects such medicines may have. I wish I could know what the root cause of the LPR is.

Hal

iva · Post by **iva** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:02 am

Hal,

LPR may be caused by either AR or PND. Who put u on PPIs - a GI? Do u do any nasal irrigation?

Hal · Post by **Hal** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:40 am

Hi Iva,

Yes they had done an upper GI when they put me on the PPI. I don't do any nasal irrigation. I have squirted some saline solution up my nose a few times but not much more then that.

Hal

prey · Post by **prey** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:18 pm

hello,
i want to ask if someone have pieces of food stuck in this mucus or is it always clear?
after a meal you get clear mucus?

whenever i eat something after 2 min i get thick mucus with the previous food that i ate.

could be this lpr?
if this pnd comes from the sinuses can the food stuck in it?

thanks

iva · Post by **iva** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:47 am

I would like to share with all LPR sufferers that my ENT prescribed to me a single muscle injection of DIPROPHOS for relief of LPR symptoms and it had a tremendous effect the next day!
It did help me miraculously with all the lump-in-the-throat sensation and did reduce my bb. Of course bb is not gone, but the feeling in the mouth and throat is sooo much better!

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:35 am

For anyone who suspects acid reflux is in some way contributing to their BB here is a story of a woman who successfully treated her reflux with an operation using keyhole surgery.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7996446.stm