Clasification of malodor

[halitosisux]

Hi aydinmur, more questions relating to this if I may:-

Is the type 1 halitosis fully understood, i.e. is there always a primary underlying reason for it such as a dental or sinus problem, or in some cases is the cause unknown or due to more complex reasons?

The kind of problems that would cause the type 4 halitosis, would a person be aware of the type of hepatic or renal issues that would allow a situation like this to occur and if not would a person be able to have such issues diagnosed by standard blood tests?

I had a thought this morning - do you think its possible that a person who has a lot of PND could end up with halitosis purely because of the fact that the PND is being swallowed, rather than the standard assumption that the excessive bacterial activity on the back of the tongue is due to the area being bathed in more than usual amounts of mucus.

[KeepTrying09]

I dont know what PND is. I cannot folow abreviations used here . PND, TMAU, BB, PPT, BBI and dozens. My English is not super.

PND - Post Nasal Drip
TMAU - Trimethylaminuria (otherwise known as fish odor syndrome)
BB - Bad Breath
PPT - No idea
BBI - No idea

I just wanted to say it's a pleasure reading your posts and having you here as a member aydinmur. The fact that you are an oral microbiologist who is researching on ways to help those with bad breath just speaks volumes. Too bad there aren't more of you in the world. Lord knows it would be nice if there were a couple thousand of you running around.

[halitosisux]

Hi Aydinmur, I am trying to understand the first point you made. Are you saying that saliva in type 1 smells before it even enters the mouth? Or is there always a bacterial role that ends up causing saliva to smell bad once it enters the mouth.

As far as I am aware, in TMAU (Trimethylaminuria - fish odour syndrome) the saliva that enters the mouth already contains small quantities of Trimethlyamine, which further exacerbates the odour being exhaled from the lungs. And since TMAU isnt the only defective enzyme related disorder, there could be other similar mechanisms which lead to the "pure" saliva becoming odourous.

Sorry if I have completely misunderstood what you've said, but I would like to understand this.

Are the types of bad breath from hepatic or renal issues easily distinguishable from other types of bad breath? For instance, I know that diabetes can cause a sweet smelling breath that is instantly recognisable.

PND is excessive mucus production in the nose which runs down into the throat.

[halitosisux]

whoops KT, I replied without noticing you'd already replied

[KeepTrying09]

whoops KT, I replied without noticing you'd already replied

No worries mate . You had some pretty interesting questions in your post. I'm eager to hear the response.

[me]

is there any research being made for type 3 and 4 cases?? By personal expirience is my opinion that those of us whoes breath and nose exhale smells like poop is probably cause by either case type 3 or 4.

[Renato]

Hi ayidnur

Accordingy to your halitosis classification, I would say to have the type 3, which end up in type -1, too.

I'm lactose and fructose intolerant, so I may have overgrowth of bacteria in intestines. I experience a silent reflux. SO the fluids in my mouth cause the halitosis type-1. Very white tongue with bad odor.

[I would like to share an experiment from literature (Kleinberg I, 1999): Saliva taken from halitosis patients divided into its sediment and supernatant with it is centrifuged in a test tube. Its interesting that halitosis completely disappears in supernatant tube while sediment tube have a minimal bad odor. Then, halitosis suddenly appears after both fractions of saliva were joined in one tube. However this time, halitosis is measured in a lesser amount than its inital level. This shows us (1) intact saliva have bad odor if that person have type 1 halitosis, (2) serum proteins, molecular constituents of saliva (supernatant) have not bad odor if they are not together with bacterial and epithelial cells. (3) there is at least one more factor that affects on halitosis except proteins and bacteria, judging by rejoined fractions have lesser amount of halitosis than initial level.
There are a lot of undiscovered mechanisms here.]

Respect to this, I think that the supernatant, which have the protein rich fraction is needed for bacteria in the sediment fraction to grow and cause the bad odor gases. Perhaps, when combining both fraction back in a test tube the bad odor level is not as the initial, just because the anaerobic bacteria do not survive longer in aerobic conditions. Anaerobic bacteria, the BB causing agent, is adopted to live in low oxigen concentration tissues, as in deep areas of the tongue.

[/quote]

[halitosisux]

Aydinmur, I'm not sure whether you understood my question on saliva, so just to be clear I'll ask it again.

In cases of level-1 halitosis, if pure saliva is taken before it mixes with oral surfaces and bacteria and chemicals etc, is it ever found to be odourous? My point being that if saliva (before entering the mouth) is already odourous, then surely that, and not bacterial activity inside the mouth, is responsible for the odour buildup on the tongue's surface.

If that is the case, as it is in TMAU, then this is an important point because that is where attention needs to be focused, into how and why the saliva is becoming odourous in the first place, before it even enters the mouth.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that my saliva only ever smelled bad once it entered my mouth. If I gathered my saliva by allowing to drip out of my saliva gland openings, it would never smell of anything - this was both before and after the cause of my BB was dealt with.

Also, its good to see that you have devised a simple way to identify whether a person is a type 1 case or not.

[halitosisux]

I can tell you that if I collect a sample of my saliva straight out of my saliva ducts it has absolutely no odour.

If I collect a sample which has made contact with the rest of my mouth, it has a slight odour of vinegar when allowed to dry.

While I still had my wisdom tooth and my whole mouth would become infested with odour, my saliva would smell much stronger than this.

I have read that with Trimethylaminuria the saliva has an initial odour because of the small quantities of TMA contained in it. This may also be the case for other types of bloodborne halitosis.

[tearjerker]

Hi Aydinmur,

I really like your post about this classification.
I think it would be helpful if you can provide us with diagram as many of us are just unfamiliar with scientific terms.

Also, can I ask for help here...Could you make also classification of smell? I understand there could be too many of them that could be classified, but in this case only those that are related to halitosis and bad breath. From this we can continue on to analysis of the source for each smell class.

Thank you.
I always wait for and read your post.

[br]

Dear Murat
I would be grateful if you would tell me how i can diagnose the reason for my bad breath and how do i cure it. This stuff you produced: is it available in London or how can I obtain it, i.e., is it available onliner. Thank you

[mitc]

I had Bad Breath for years but didn’t even know it. I noticed people near me would rub their noses sneeze cough and try to go elsewhere. It occurred to me that I had bad breath. So I went to my dentist to have my teeth cleaned but when I asked about my bad breath he said floss brush and rinse twice a day. I said I’ve been doing that since I was 15! But my dentist had run out of time so I was back on the street. Then I was paying top dollar for all those will “stop Bad Breath” all you have to do is buy all these products for the rest of your life! And they don’t even work ffs. One of my few remaining friends mentioned an eBook his girlfriend used called BadHalitosisBreathCom and said it worked for his girlfriend so why not me? So I downloaded a copy and found out the book had been around for years! I could have fixed my Bad Breath years ago. The eBook took a completely different approach to the cure of Bad Breath I followed it word for word. Within a week I could tell it was working and my friend said my breath is much better. Now a year later I have a good job a great girlfriend and Party every other weekend.

[iva]

Hi, Aydinmur

I would like to order one of your Pharmol Zn to try it, but its all in Turkish...How can I get it online? Besides I cannot understand the composition of the rinse!
And if it doesn`t work, does that mean that the halitosis is not a Type 1
halitosis?

thank u

[br]

According to me (1) , there are 5 types of malodor:

[enter to systemic blood circulation. Lungs try to filter and exhale them via breath. They may have a bad odor. This causes bad breath.

Type-5 halitosis is psychologic.


References:
1. Aydýn Murat. [Halitosis, from diagnosis to therapy]. Nobel Týp Kitap evi, Istanbul, 2008. http://www.aydinmur.com/akkitabi.html
2. http://aydinmur.com/agizkokusu.html

Dear Murat
Is it possible to get your links in English please. Thanks

[sadman]

Dr Murat :

If PharmolZn doesnt immediately stop or significantly decrease your halitosis, dont look for reason of halitosis in your mouth.

I think that it's misleading when you said so . How can you be so sure that PharmolZn works for type 1 Halitosis ? Zinc and boric acid have been used in mouthwashes for a long time and they do not seem to help much . No mouthwash has had good result so far , they just masked the bad breath for a very short period . The culprit of type 1 halitosis is the overgrowth of the gram negative bacteria on the tongue dorsum and the only cure is to reset the mouth flora to a healthy one with more good than bad bacteria and in order to do that we must know the reasons of that imbalance of the mouth flora , is it genetic, immunologic, past use of antibiotic, or is it because of the structure of the tongue , pH of the mouth that favors the growth of the bad bacteria or something else ??

I respectfully disagree with you about the prevalence of type 1 halitosis . In my opinion , 80-90% of bad breath is types 1 and most of them is from the VSC producing bacteria on the tongue dorsum . The bad breath of other types is not as severe as type 1 and can be cured if the underlying cause is treated .
On the microbiological point of view , would you give us some idea of how we can correct that bacterial imbalance permanently so that we can live a normal life with no dependence on mouthwash , gum, diet ....Thx