The past few days

[FedUp]

I've been around people with no reactions but every now and again I've been catching whiffs of what smells like leather shoes...

I'm not crazy as I was sat next to a colleague (very scared and tryna breathe away) When he blew back a whiff of my breath and it smelt like new leather shoes....

I've been focusing on reducing PND which is hard. yesterday I started taking acid reflux meds just to try it (why not eh?). I spoke in peoples faces a few times before starting meds and no reactions at all, I don't think our breath hits them everytime to be honest.

But over the last weekend someone pointed out a smell once as we shared a room for 3 days and no-one complained but once.....

I'm going out of my mind I do not know when I do and don't smell.

But whats with the leathery smell???

I was on a train in close contact and no reactions..... I do not get it at all.

Could PND once mixed with the throat cause such a stench?

I seem to get a reaction when my whole mouth is just polluted with PND.

Sometimes I can put my hand near my nose and smell rotten eggs inside my nose, I also can rarely smell this when brushing my teeth, is it the PND just stagnating in my ent area?


I am ****ing sick of this problem I am 23 living in my room when I should be out doing stupid shit and enjoying life. no....

[Stinkynick]

Dude our problem sounds literally identical. 23 years old trapped in my room. Somehow I have a girlfriend who I met before this issue started and who has stayed with me.

I know exactly what you're talking about when you say you catch whiffs of leather. Depending on my surroundings the smell varies from leather to mothballs to shit. I would say 90% of the time I have bb but I do not always get reactions. I think some people have just learned to accept us, and others are more sensitive to smell.

Anyway man I'm pretty sure we both have PND or sinus related bb. I know you say your ct scan was normal but has a doc mentioned polyps before? I really think this could be my issue and I'm getting it checked out

[FedUp]

The doc flicked through my scan pics within seconds said there was nothing wrong and all clear, then stuck a camera in my nose and found nothing.

im starting to lose hope, before ent visits at least I had hope but now it's wearing thin.

My mouth just feels slimey, just feels hot. How can my nose breath be worse but nose all clear??????

Only time I can smell BB is in the morning which comes from tongue, then I can smell it maybe late at night before brushing. But in the day I smell nothing.

In the UK health care is essentially free so you have to wait weeks/months to be seen then for tests. In this world the rich can sort this shit out no problem. If I had money I would be cured now.

And I wish I had the confidence to even stand near a girl now, ***k me I hate this.

And you know what pisses me off, when I stayed with friends for 3 days, One of them didn't brush his teeth or his mouthwash the whole time, the other brushed his teeth maybe once. I used to be able to do that at one stage and not have to worry about BB maybe over a year ago.

[Stinkynick]

I know how you feel brother. The best thing you can do is stay patient, which trust me I know is hard.

Have you tried oil pulling, it helps a little for me with morning breath.
The best thing you can do is if you want to be tested for something get on a list ASAP and wait. Being on a list is better than no hope at all right? I drive myself crazy some nights looking for the underlying cause and research and brushing, flossing etc. but I'm convinced I will not give up until I'm cured, or in a state where I can manage bb.
It's a shame we were given this burden, but it does not and will not define who we are. There is a cure, go out and find it bro

[FedUp]

tried oil pulling with no success.


I've had an endoscopy, ct scan, tonsils out. what else could cause BB?

I have pnd all day arghhhhhhhhh, i feel low.

[Stinkynick]

If I were you I would pick one possible cause, in your case PND, and run with it. PND doesn't really just happen, there's a cause behind it. Allergies, inflammation of your nasal passages, sinus infections, etc...


Do you have asthma?
Smoker?
Drinker?
Personally I used to snort many different pills and other drugs everyday for like two years, for sure that didn't help.

I would find all the possible causes of PND ( if you think that is our underlying cause) and try to rule them out or diagnose and treat.

After that its on to the next possible cause. Keep on trying is all we can really do, the hard part and probably most important is to make sure we don't stop living our lives. I have taken myself out of many situations because of my bb, but I love to play golf and so I play as often as I can. It provides me four to five hours of temporary relief of the anxiety and fear that controls my thoughts and offers me some social interactions. Good luck buddy keep us posted

[Stankie]

...

[mindspace]

Is there any corelation between pathogenic bacteria which cause periodontal disease like prevotela intermedia and something else and what we eat.I think this is my case because antibiotics doesn't kill this bacteria.

[halitosisux]

Two of the most common symptoms on here seem to be PND and (related?) tongue coating/odour.

Everything else, such as tonsil stones, may simply be a manifestation of these two factors. There are also lots of other related symptoms many of us share which may relate to the underlying cause of the PND.

I think that this is what gives many of us our susceptibility to bad breath. The PND will undoubtedly alter the ecology in our throats for the worse, that then alters our bacterial profile for the worse, further increasing our susceptibility to odour production.

That's why a person who doesn't have these factors might easily get away with having poor oral hygiene or the kind of wisdom tooth/gum shit I've had to deal with.

Once again I will reiterate what I've said many times on here about the simple experiment of mixing a sample of my oral bacteria together with some of my post nasal mucus into a sterile dish, and PERFECTLY recreating the stench of my bad breath after a couple of hours of incubation.

It really doesn't have to be any more complicated than this PND/mucus presense in the throat. We have to try to find out what causes this mucus to be present - I'm sure this is the key for many of us on here.

We know there are many different causes of PND. Some are straightforward, some are not. We also know that not everyone with PND has bad breath. But that doesn't therefore mean that PND (or certain types of PND) can't cause bad breath. There may be complex reasons why some people can have PND and not have bad breath. And PND doesn't necessarily have to be "post nasal" mucus, it can be any form of mucus accumulation in the throat.

[FedUp]

If I were you I would pick one possible cause, in your case PND, and run with it. PND doesn't really just happen, there's a cause behind it. Allergies, inflammation of your nasal passages, sinus infections, etc...


Do you have asthma?
Smoker?
Drinker?
Personally I used to snort many different pills and other drugs everyday for like two years, for sure that didn't help.

I would find all the possible causes of PND ( if you think that is our underlying cause) and try to rule them out or diagnose and treat.

After that its on to the next possible cause. Keep on trying is all we can really do, the hard part and probably most important is to make sure we don't stop living our lives. I have taken myself out of many situations because of my bb, but I love to play golf and so I play as often as I can. It provides me four to five hours of temporary relief of the anxiety and fear that controls my thoughts and offers me some social interactions. Good luck buddy keep us posted

Im a non smoker- never smoked.
Drink at weekend - even thats not every weekend, don't drink in the week.

Interestingly enough when I don't use mouthwash the PND decreases..

Anti-biotics didn't decrease PND.
Acid reflux meds hasn't decreased.


I KNOW what my next ENT visit will be like, "SORRY I CAN'T HELP YOU". Only thing I can think of is sometimes the area behind uvula sometimes taste of manure and rotten eggs, adenoids??? pah, i dont know. failing that I will take the plunge and spend my money on wisdom removal although dentist rendered them fine.....

Well failing that I will visit dr aydin here, to see if he can help me locate the source.

There is always options that keep hope alive.

[Stinkynick]

@halitosissux through some research and talking with my mom who occasionally suffers from PND, I think that the difference between the "normal cases" of PND and ours is the same as with our bb. Most of us have CHRONIC cases of PND and bb that won't go away. In my moms situation she gets PND when her allergies are acting up, maybe for a week at a time. Now as you guys know mucus buildup is a five star meal for anaerobic bacteria. My theory is that in a normal case, when PND is present for say a week or so, the anaerobic bacteria eats but does not have time to fully colonize and take over before the immune system fights off whatever sickness was causing it in the first place. In our case I believe that there is a constant mucus buildup in 1. The back of the throat 2. The sinus cavities. Once the bacteria colonize in a place like our sinus cavity we are in trouble. Our only chance is to figure out WHY we have chronic PND and treat the causes rather than the symptoms

Just a theory, I'm just another sufferer looking for answers

[halitosisux]

Stinkynick that's a very good point. It may be that it takes time for a change in ecology, from something like PND, to shift the bacterial profile for the worse. So that might explain why a short spell of PND won't be enough to change the bacterial profile, but when it becomes chronic it can shift everything.

This is exactly what happens with the gut flora too. Gut flora profile can completely depend on our diet (diet can be seen as part of the gut ecology because food passes slowly through the intestine), so in the same way the same thing can also happen in the mouth when something like excessive PND occurs.

There may also be more complex interactions too. For instance, if a person has PND because of infection, that infection itself may trigger the immune system in some way which prevents bad breath from occuring. A lot of people believe their BB reduces when they get flu etc, and it might be for similar reason.

[Stinkynick]

The question is would a surgery/draining of the sinuses provide any relief?

Like most things I would imagine this will vary from case to case. I don't always show signs of being congested, which I think is because I get so congested that I forget what it's like to feel normal. But I know for a fact that there is always a buildup in the back of my throat. Does buildup in back of the throat mean definite buildup in sinus cavity? Is there any way to restore the flora in my nasal passages to what it once was?

[halitosisux]

I don't think there's supposed to be any bacteria/flora in the sinuses, as there is in other areas such as the mouth. The nose and sinuses are constantly in the process of sweeping mucus out. Any bacteria and other airborne particles are caught by this mucus and swept away.

Some people with sinus problems do have the sinus openings enlarged to allow better aspiration and drainage, so it depends on the individual circumstance.

Build up in the throat could be coming from a number of possible sources. Most are probably easily identifiable by an ENT, but perhaps some are due to deeper reasons.

Some food intolerances can induce the mucous membranes to produce more mucus, including those in the nose and sinuses. An ENT would be looking for infections and abnormalities.