A different case of halitosis?

[Jimi Stein]

Hi Emanuela Hoxha

I think a forum's companion talked about this clinic. It's called Instituto del Aliento (breath's institution) and it's lead by doctor Nunes. This doctor assists in Spain, Portugal, UK, and so on.
He took simples of my mouth: saliva, gums, and throat to study the bacterias there and he took a simple of my breathing.
He prescribed three types of antibiotics differents for a month and a mouthwash (the breath co or Ultradex) and nasal irrigations.
My bb reduced, but not disappeared and some symptoms remained such as smelling of food when I was eating and after too or the indol odor (fecal) an hour later. This odor reduced but was there.
As time passed the effect of antibiotics disappeared and my bb came back and I came back to the clinic and they repeated the proves and gave me other types of antibiotics and it happened the same. The doctor talked about more alternatives and he told me he wouldn't stop until I was cured.
I have been going to a psychologist to dismiss halitophobia for five months and I will come back to the clinic with the psychologist's report.
I have many things to tell him. I wish I could write all here, but I need to spend a long time writing in English. I'm sorry.
I wish I could say whatever I want to say.
When I return from the clinic, I will tell you all.

Regards.

PD: Do you really suffer the same bb I suffer? If you have read my post, you know my symptoms. I have been in Spain's forums for many years, I have been face to face with some of the people there and I have never found anyone who had my problem. So, I was very surprised when Mauricio told me all people here have the same bb I have.
I'm sorry, I apologize for my bad English.

So this Nunes idiot from Spain, he failed 2 times with antibiotics? ANd he wants psychological proof you have bad breath? This NUnes will go straight to the shit list..... it is another clinic that claims they cure bad breath, they try to try new stuff like antibiotics and that they will not give up on you, of course they will not if you pay them lots of money......

It is just talk talk, but you will still go to the idiot and he will keep scamming you....

[Albertus41]

Hi Jimi,
Like you, I think doctor Nunes has a method and he is trying to cure this way, unsuccessful in my case. However, he isn't a swindler because I only paid the first time. From that time, all of the medical consultations, retests, and medical prescribes I didn't pay anything, I swear.
If I come back to his clinic is, above all, because he treats me very well. I feel he understand and listen to my problem, and I repeat, the tests are expensive, but I only paid the first time.
Anyway, I will tell you when I return from Barcelona.
Regards

[Albertus41]

Hi everyone,
First of all, I apologize if it appeared that I was doing advertising for the clinic of doctor Nunes. That was not my intention.
Second, now I go to explain my personal experience and the advantages and disadvantages of this clinic.

Disadvantages: Not only I don't have cured, but also the result of the tests mark that I have halitosis level one (on a scale of 1 to 5). I was really disappointed and I demanded to repeat the tests. At that moment, I thought something had come off badly. And I thought like Jimi: "this doctor ripped me off". Another disadvantage is that this doctor relies on antibiotics too much at least for the time.

Advantages: Thanks to gas chromatography and the bacterial culture, now I know what I have in my mouth: bacteria and other substances. This fact helped to guide me and focus on looking for more specific information related to my problem.
Another advantage is that the humane treatment was always excellent, you can feel he listens to you and interests in your problem. Is true that this clinic is not cheap, but I only paid the first time.

What does the doctor found in my mouth?

Microbiological study:
Solobacterium morei Detected
Streptococcus Salivarius Detected
P. gingivalis Detected
Prevotella intermedia Detected
Tannerella forsythia Detected

But also:
He found digestive substances in my mouth: indole and skatole. These substances are produced in the intestine when bacteria decompose tryptophan and gas chromatography cannot detect them.

Jimi, when I wash my mouth thoroughly, I feel the flavour and the odour of these substances: indole and skatole, due to they are in my saliva, always.
It's possible the silent reflux throws these substances to my throat and my mouth or can be I secrete saliva with indole and skatole because the mucus at all of the digestive system is related, in other words, if your system digestive doesn't work correctly, your saliva won't be clean.
My faeces give off an unspeakable odour. This odour isn't of intense shit or rotten egg. It's an odour of death. Moreover, my faeces are softer than normal and stain the WC.

When I go to Barcelona, I have many questions and suggestions for the doctor. Nunes isn't God, there are halitosis cases nobody is able to cure. It is about looking for a solution together. For me, that is the most important. He told me if antibiotics don't work, there were other alternatives and for that reason, I go to Barcelona again.

If you have money I recommend you taking gas chromatography and the bacterial culture to know what you have in your mouth. You can try to soliciting only the test and look for other clinics where you can take it. It doesn't have to be this doctor, I imagine you will have more options if you live in the USA or UK.

Some companions in this forum recommend medical tests to try finding out what is the cause of halitosis. Some of them think they have a genetic problem and for that reason, they have too much sulphur. If you take gas chromatography, sulphur has to be detected because is CVS, and even they would tell you what is your halitosis level on a scale of 1 to 5.

I have halitosis level 1. Under this doctor, people cannot detect my halitosis, but they detect it. Why? Because I don't stink of sulphur, I stink of other substances that the gas chromatography machine cannot detect. For that reason, the doctor use informers who will check the patient's breathing during treatment. In my case, my wife, my brother, my parents, don't detect my bb, but I didn't know some people don't detect bb and I came to believe that I had cured.

If I am going to the psychologist is because my wife thinks I have halitophobia and she thinks the psychologist will convince me the problem is only in my head. I want to buy your book since I found this forum, but if I do my wife will know and will think I am crazy. It's logical she thinks this because she doesn't detect my odour, or my family, and the result of the tests show my halitosis is undetectable.

For that reason Nunes recommended I go to the psychologist because my informers told him I hadn't bb. I live in Spain and his clinic is in Barcelona but I have to drive one thousand km to his consultation. For that reason, after he took me samples the first time, we saw each other online for monitoring.

But when I went to see him, he detected face to face my bb and he said my bb is not intense but we had to eliminate it.

Now, I know because my family or my wife don't detect my problem, and now I know what I have to say when I return to see the doctor.

But also, God is laughing at me because my psychologist doesn't detect my odour too. It's crazy. He took tests to convince me I have halitophobia. One of them consisted in that I had to carry to the consult three small bottles filled with different substances and he had to guess by smell what substances were. I filled a bottle with water clean (odourless), another with my wife's perfume, and the last with water dirty of WC. I was amazed when he couldn't smell anything, and he was amazed too and he was worried.

When I return from Barcelona, I will tell you all. Don’t worry Jimi, I have spent 800 euros in this clinic, and so, if the treatment is based on antibiotics only, I myself will tell you it’s a fraud.

All the very best to everyone!

Regards.

[Emanuela hoxha]

Thank you for your share and keep us updated about everything , best of regards

[simple]

Hi Albertus, do you get reactions from strangers, like comments, sneezing, nose covering? Does your bb smell fecal or in a different way? Is it strong, can it be felt from far away? Can it fill a room you’re in?

I also went to Dr Nunes, but I thought he was a scammer, so didn’t return. He collected the breath test in a small tube, but the way it was collected made me think the test wasn’t accurate and wouldn’t show anything anyway. He collected only mouth air telling me not to breathe, whereas for a lot of chronic bb sufferes (and me) it is the nose breath (from lungs) that contains volatile sulfur compounds. Maybe that’s why your test didn’t show anything?

Also, Dr Nunes seems to focus on antibiotics to much and seeing mouth bacteria as the cause for chronic bb. But we chronic bb sufferers already have perfect oral hygiene and we killed all the bacteria the last 937749426 times we used another anti-halitosis mouthwash. Come on, bacteria in the mouth?! If that would be the case, there wouldn’t be any single person on this forum! If you use breathfreshening products, I’d be very sceptical towards this treatment. The only reason I could think of antibiotics helping is if you have disbalance in intestinal flora, like SIBO - people here frequently mentioned antibiotics decrease bb in SIBO.

Another possibility (sorry, I have to say it): what if you actually have halitophobia and he just “treats” you because you’re paying? Or because he thinks the only way to cure your halitophobia is when you believe you’re cured? I don’t know your situation well though, so can’t know for sure.

How are you doing anyway?

Hi everyone,
First of all, I apologize if it appeared that I was doing advertising for the clinic of doctor Nunes. That was not my intention.
Second, now I go to explain my personal experience and the advantages and disadvantages of this clinic.

Disadvantages: Not only I don't have cured, but also the result of the tests mark that I have halitosis level one (on a scale of 1 to 5). I was really disappointed and I demanded to repeat the tests. At that moment, I thought something had come off badly. And I thought like Jimi: "this doctor ripped me off". Another disadvantage is that this doctor relies on antibiotics too much at least for the time.

Advantages: Thanks to gas chromatography and the bacterial culture, now I know what I have in my mouth: bacteria and other substances. This fact helped to guide me and focus on looking for more specific information related to my problem.
Another advantage is that the humane treatment was always excellent, you can feel he listens to you and interests in your problem. Is true that this clinic is not cheap, but I only paid the first time.

What does the doctor found in my mouth?

Microbiological study:
Solobacterium morei Detected
Streptococcus Salivarius Detected
P. gingivalis Detected
Prevotella intermedia Detected
Tannerella forsythia Detected

But also:
He found digestive substances in my mouth: indole and skatole. These substances are produced in the intestine when bacteria decompose tryptophan and gas chromatography cannot detect them.

Jimi, when I wash my mouth thoroughly, I feel the flavour and the odour of these substances: indole and skatole, due to they are in my saliva, always.
It's possible the silent reflux throws these substances to my throat and my mouth or can be I secrete saliva with indole and skatole because the mucus at all of the digestive system is related, in other words, if your system digestive doesn't work correctly, your saliva won't be clean.
My faeces give off an unspeakable odour. This odour isn't of intense shit or rotten egg. It's an odour of death. Moreover, my faeces are softer than normal and stain the WC.

When I go to Barcelona, I have many questions and suggestions for the doctor. Nunes isn't God, there are halitosis cases nobody is able to cure. It is about looking for a solution together. For me, that is the most important. He told me if antibiotics don't work, there were other alternatives and for that reason, I go to Barcelona again.

If you have money I recommend you taking gas chromatography and the bacterial culture to know what you have in your mouth. You can try to soliciting only the test and look for other clinics where you can take it. It doesn't have to be this doctor, I imagine you will have more options if you live in the USA or UK.

Some companions in this forum recommend medical tests to try finding out what is the cause of halitosis. Some of them think they have a genetic problem and for that reason, they have too much sulphur. If you take gas chromatography, sulphur has to be detected because is CVS, and even they would tell you what is your halitosis level on a scale of 1 to 5.

I have halitosis level 1. Under this doctor, people cannot detect my halitosis, but they detect it. Why? Because I don't stink of sulphur, I stink of other substances that the gas chromatography machine cannot detect. For that reason, the doctor use informers who will check the patient's breathing during treatment. In my case, my wife, my brother, my parents, don't detect my bb, but I didn't know some people don't detect bb and I came to believe that I had cured.

If I am going to the psychologist is because my wife thinks I have halitophobia and she thinks the psychologist will convince me the problem is only in my head. I want to buy your book since I found this forum, but if I do my wife will know and will think I am crazy. It's logical she thinks this because she doesn't detect my odour, or my family, and the result of the tests show my halitosis is undetectable.

For that reason Nunes recommended I go to the psychologist because my informers told him I hadn't bb. I live in Spain and his clinic is in Barcelona but I have to drive one thousand km to his consultation. For that reason, after he took me samples the first time, we saw each other online for monitoring.

But when I went to see him, he detected face to face my bb and he said my bb is not intense but we had to eliminate it.

Now, I know because my family or my wife don't detect my problem, and now I know what I have to say when I return to see the doctor.

But also, God is laughing at me because my psychologist doesn't detect my odour too. It's crazy. He took tests to convince me I have halitophobia. One of them consisted in that I had to carry to the consult three small bottles filled with different substances and he had to guess by smell what substances were. I filled a bottle with water clean (odourless), another with my wife's perfume, and the last with water dirty of WC. I was amazed when he couldn't smell anything, and he was amazed too and he was worried.

When I return from Barcelona, I will tell you all. Don’t worry Jimi, I have spent 800 euros in this clinic, and so, if the treatment is based on antibiotics only, I myself will tell you it’s a fraud.

All the very best to everyone!

Regards.

[Albertus41]

Hi everybody, As I said a few days ago, I'm here to talk about my visit to doctor Nunes in Barcelona. The doctor checked my breath himself and told me I didn't have a bb at that moment. After I talked about the perceptions and sensations I have since last months and the doctor took samples in my mouth to repeat the tests to verify that all is well.

He told me I have level 0 of bb. However, I could perceive my bb and a bad taste in my mouth. But, He doesn't notice. Or he says the truth or lies. My mom, my wife, my brother or my father don't perceive my bb. The doctor thinks I have halitophobia, and he told me if I don't believe him, I can look for another informer who I want.
On the 12 of May, I will know the results. Meanwhile, I try to found another informer because I can smell my bb, but he said I might have dysgeusia, a neurologic problem that alters the flavour perception.
Anyway, I'm waiting for the results next weeks.

The doctor and I were talking for an hour. I asked him many questions I had in my head since before I got to. The doctor told me there are at least 80 causes that can produce bb, and I'm writing those that are more interesting for me:

1. Most cases of bb have origin in the mouth and are caused for bacteria, for this reason, antibiotics (3 specific types combined) are the best solution.
2. Slow digestion (dyspepsia) can produce excessive toxins and bacteria, and the gases can go up and expel from the mouth (bb).
3. He knows many causes of bb produced in the intestine, and some of them are constipation, intestinal permeability and bacterial overgrowth. In the three cases, the gases quantity are very significant and expel from the blood through the lungs. In these cases, usually, the odour smells of shit.
4. The odour of sulphur appears when you have a metabolic problem (selenBP1).
However, if you have oral dysbiosis, some bacteria can produce all of the previous causes symptoms.

For the moment, that is all. I will update the post soon.
Regards.

[Albertus41]

Hi, simple,
Nunes isn't a fraud. A thing is if he can cure me or not, but he is not a swindler. First, I only paid the first time. He will repeat the tests, and I have had four additional consultations with him free of charge. He has always asked me to choose informers who have to check my breath, and for that reason, he cannot deceive me.
But, honestly, I have bad taste in my mouth, and I can smell my bb. Strangely, my family perceive nothing, but I notice people perceive my bb and stay away from me. Some of them have ceased to greet me. They avoid me like the plague, but anybody doesn't tell it directly.
If you want to know my case, I tell it in my first message of this post.
Regards.

[Emanuela hoxha]

Hello thank you very much for you information i talked ti them on the phone and they told me me to first check everything with the doctors because i am doing a cure with my doctor , so he repeated to me many times ti search the cure with the doctors and only if the doctors don’t help me in any way then he said contact me , he said that maybe i can solve my problem eoth the doctors because my bb its not everyday and not that bad but its still here , so he was cery nice and he said he will send a list of the causes of bb to me no charge , anyway i am not from spain and i have ti think good if i go there but they didnt seem bad to me ,

[Albertus41]

Hi Emanuela hoxha,
If you only have oral bb and isn't very intense, you can try a series of tips such as using tea tree essential oil drops in your toothbrush and after you mix a bit more with water (10 mm) to use as a mouthwash for a few minutes.

You don't eat products that have lactose for two weeks. Have you observed if your feces flotes? It's possible you are eating a lot of carbohydrates and your body cannot absorb so much starch or you don't digest fats correctly.

Are you washing your nasal cavities? You can use a mix based on water, marine salt, bicarbonate, and tea tree essential oil (two drops).

My last tip is that when you are washing your mouth, you have to get to your throat. In the beginning, you cannot but you should try entering every time further inside and deeper with your forefinger and middle finger.

Ah, and before I forget, after you eat and you wash your mouth, when you perceive you have bb, you should eat green celery because has fiber that will help to drag the rest of the food and bacteria that can remain in your mouth.

Regards.

[Emanuela hoxha]

Thank you very much for your advice , yes i only have mowth bb not nasal bb but i am sure it comes for the inside , maybe i dont have slowly digestion or maybe from parasite that i also have and i am trying to cure them , but i will try everything you said , i am doing a cure for the moment which has helped a lot and its for parasite and the gut and its totally herbal stuff , if i get to fixed it completely i will share with you guys, also i am very afraid because 2 years ago i bad the worst bb and now that its quet normall i am afraid if it will come back as strong as it was before , best regards

[Albertus41]

Hi everyone,
I would like to say something about Nunes doctor. I don't want to repeat what I have already said about him. I will be brief.
This doctor says I don't have bb, but he's wrong. I think he lies or cannot smell me.
My psychologist sent a report which says clearly I have been getting the rejection of some people during psychological treatment due to my bb. But Nunes insists I have halitophobia.
He says that the tests show my halitosis level is very low. Almost imperceptible, but this isn't true.
I have a meeting with my psychologist and Nunes at the same time, and I'm sure that Nunes will try to come to an agreement with my psychologist to diagnose halitophobia.
My problem is that I don't know anyone who can say to the doctor: "this man stinks". In this way, I will never know if he has other methods to try curing me. He talked about many things such as oral probiotics, intestinal mobility, GERD, and so on.
So, this doctor only prescribed antibiotics and some directives to keep on.
I want to be clear about one thing, this man is not a fraud for two reasons: first, I only paid the first time, and second, my relatives affirm they don't smell anything when they are next to me.
But, Nunes, medically only antibiotics in my case, and I have not could verify if he knows or not other ways to help people.

[Albertus41]

Today I have made the English exam to get the B1 certificated because I would like to be a professor and need the title.
This morning I got up at 7 a.m. and I washed my mouth with my toothpaste and a tree of tea essential oil. 30 minutes later I breakfasted and one hour before the start of my exam I came back to wash my mouth with toothpaste and hydrogen peroxide 70/30. Despite peroxide, the bad odour emanated from my mouth and nose.
Then, I took in a pure Zinc pill, but I still can notice a bit of that bitter flavour and that odour, and then, I took another Zinc pill.
My exam lasted one hour: Speaking and Listening. During that time, I have spoken with my partners and my teacher and no one has could notice my bb. After, during the exam I was sitting in front of Michelle who is the Brit examiner. I spoke to her for 25 minutes and She didn't notice my bb. The distance between us was 1.5 meters.
When I finished my exam I went to buy and the supermarket cashier didn't notice my bb.
In other words, Zinc is the best solution that I tasted until now. The effects last two hours approximately. But I'm not sure if Zinc avoids that people could notice my bb over shorter distances.
I don't understand why Hydrogen peroxide doesn't eliminate my bb, no even when I use it a higher percentage. I guess I have to use it more time.

By the way, Listening in English is ****ing hard.

[Albertus41]

When I use Zinc I realize two things. First, when I take in this substance I stop perceiving the gas arising from my tongue, and when I eat, the flavour of the meal disappear in a few minutes. Normally, the flavour of the meal can be in my mouth for hours (even the mouthwash's flavour) and little by little I notice that this flavour is increasingly more acid up to smelling of vinegar or crap. Thanks to Zinc this doesn't happen. I wish I could take more, but the quantity recommended is one pill per day and I'm afraid to take over two pills per day.
The Zinc shows me that my problem is in the tongue and is called bacterial overgrowth. Should have a way to clean the tongue deeply and forever. We resist.

Regards

[simple]

Albertus41, do you take (ingest) Zinc supplements? Zinc neutralises Volatile Oraginc Compounds when it is in contact with them in the mouth. Ingesting zinc supplements wouldn’t help with the odour if it originated in the mouth. If you have smell from nose (breathing) & mouth, then you have extraoral halitosis, which is NOT caused by bacteria in the mouth. You should look at other causes, such as gastrointestinal function and metabolism.

I also feel after eating a “flavour that is increasingly more acid”; the flavour/smell of the meal lingers too. I found those two symptoms are very common among us with bb; but their presence points to an underlying health condition (gastrointestinal symptoms are common too), NOT an issue with bacteria in the mouth.

Anyway, how have you been so far? Is bb reduced judging from reactions? Did you manage to get further treatments with Dr Nunes?

When I use Zinc I realize two things. First, when I take in this substance I stop perceiving the gas arising from my tongue, and when I eat, the flavour of the meal disappear in a few minutes. Normally, the flavour of the meal can be in my mouth for hours (even the mouthwash's flavour) and little by little I notice that this flavour is increasingly more acid up to smelling of vinegar or crap. Thanks to Zinc this doesn't happen. I wish I could take more, but the quantity recommended is one pill per day and I'm afraid to take over two pills per day.
The Zinc shows me that my problem is in the tongue and is called bacterial overgrowth. Should have a way to clean the tongue deeply and forever. We resist.

[Albertus41]

Hi, simple,
I take pills of Zinc. I take in two in my mouth until they melt. When I do this, I feel better, but my bb doesn't disappear completely (I believed that to be like this).
Recently, I'm fasting and I feel all of the symptoms are declined. For example, if I don't eat, I don't have fatigue and I don't feel tired. The bad flavor reduces considerably and I think the bad odor too.

I always felt I have nasal bb because the bacteria in my mouth have colonized the pharynx (oronasal area and even my throat). And I always thought I notice the sour, bitter, or rancid flavor (depending on what I have eaten) due to bacteria there.
Next, I will write the relationship between the food and the resulting flavor :

Bread=rancid
Sweets: sour
neutral flavor food: bitter

On the other hand, I have never found a relation between my stomach and all of those bad flavors in my mouth after eating, and so I have always thought bacteria the problem are.
Other relations:
Mouthwash that has Sodium Chlorite= Bitter
Baking soda: bitter
Peroxide of hydrogen: bitter

Whatever I do, I can feel the bad taste and bad odor. I believe that the main causes are bacteria in my throat, and oronasal area, and my tongue. Not even when I took antibiotics a long time the odor and the taste didn't disappear completely.
Normally in my country, if you have bb, people don't tell you. However, if you near and annoy them too much, they will be "sincere".
I would like to clean my guts and my liver because it isn't very difficult to do and I would like to see the results.
Best regards,
F

PD: If I take in a bit of a beer, all people close to me think I'm a drunk.

Sorry for my English