Fresh Breath All Day at Last

[mindyb]

Searchingnot to sound "dumb", but how do you use your irrigator? Do you run it over the gumline. Or do you do each tooth/gum separately for a specific period of time? Do you do anything with it to your tongue or tonsils? Thanks for the info. How much did you spend on your irrigator and what specifically made you decide to use it after 35 yrs. of bb?

[mindyb]

Also searching-
Are you still doing No/Low carb diet? How do you feel that type of diet has effected your bb at present? Thanks!

[searching]

how do you use your irrigator? Do you run it over the gumline. Or do you do each tooth/gum separately for a specific period of time?

Do you do anything with it to your tongue or tonsils? How much did you spend on your irrigator and what specifically made you decide to use it after 35 yrs. of bb.

Are you still doing No/Low carb diet? How do you feel that type of diet has effected your bb at present?

mindyb,

I was motivated to restart the use of oral irrigation after using a toothpick (something I almost never do) about one month ago. I pressed the toothpick between each tooth, too deep and too forcefully. This coincidentally stimulated saliva and forced out material that brushing and flossing left behind. I suddenly experienced freshening breath for a short period, perhaps 15 to 30 minutes. That provided a clue about where a source of BB might be. So I started using oral irrigation, each morning, with hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) to thoroughly clean where a toothbrush cannot reach and floss does not fully clean. The method steadily provided improving results. I did not return to using toothpicks.

I use the oral irrigator at, and beneath, the gum line at the tooth base and between each tooth. I set the irrigator flow to full intensity to better-ensure reaching all pockets. I run the irrigator tip over the gum line spending 1 or 2 seconds at each tooth. Those who irrigate may notice that at the beginning of the irrigation step, each day, the liquid first exits the mouth somewhat cloudy, i.e. it is flushing out bacterial colonies. By the end of the irrigation step, the liquid exits clean and clear, i.e. most of the bacteria have been dislodged and flushed from the mouth. The peroxide ensures that the majority of remaining bacteria, beneath the gum line, are destroyed by oxidation. I believe the oral irrigation is substantially more effective than simply swishing the diluted peroxide in the mouth - as it reaches deep into the pockets beneath the gum line to physically scour, physically flush, and chemically clean. The procedure is complete in less than 2 minutes. I do not irrigate the tonsils.

Yes, I am on a low carb diet which I think helps; however, I believe this new routine of irrigation with dilute H2O2, and using toothpaste containing triclosan, is responsible for the largest improvement.

My Water Pik is an old model that was about $35.USD.

I gently use a Tung brush, wetted only with water.

[boston25]

searching :
Great job. I bought a waterpik about a week ago and followed your routine and the results are good. I have had fecal odor from mouth/nose for 3.5 yrs and the past week has been managable. I don't have wisdom teeth or tonsils.

My theory : This bacteria emitting VSC (shit smell) in some way has become potent and resistant to normal hygeine. It has been a very efficient bacteria in the sense that it habitats in the very places where it cannot easily be eradicated - the gums. This bacteria when uncontrolled spread to the tongue and back of the throat thus giving a noticable malodor when exhaling.

Lately : I've been going out publicly and having fun. It seems to last until a few hours after I eat and drink, when the bacteria is given time to populate. At worst its a step in the right direction towards restoring my mouth to a normal balance and even healthier teeth. And at best its a possible cure. Again, awesome discovery.

My routine : Waterpik 100 ($60) in the morning after breakfast THOROUGHLY with hydrogen peroxide diluted in water. Then brush teeth with colgate (triclosan type) and tongue. Drink 2 glasses of warm water to flush the overnight bacteria on the back of the throat down and I'm good.

[searching]

My theory : This bacteria emitting VSC in some way has become potent and resistant to normal hygeine. It has been a very efficient bacteria in the sense that it habitats in the very places where it cannot easily be eradicated - the gums. This bacteria when uncontrolled spread to the tongue and back of the throat thus giving a noticable malodor when exhaling.

Boston25,

The theory makes sense. Some types of chronic BB may be caused by bacteria that lie [just] out-of-reach of ordinary dental hygiene techniques. Ordinary flossing and brushing of teeth and tongue may not be sufficient for removing the bacteria that some of us harbor beneath the gum line (and/or sinuses, tonsils, tongue, wisdom teeth). The momentary contact that an oral rinse provides may not be sufficient to kill or remove a critical mass of bacteria. So the "Pilgrims on Plymouth Rock" repopulate immediately after brushing and flossing.

Some of us are/were brushing our tongues raw, or over-brushing teeth to the point where the enamel eroded away. The remaining BB cause may live elsewhere.

It may indeed help some with BB to try oral irrigation at, and beneath the gum line, with a mild antimicrobial agent, e.g. dilute hydrogen peroxide, to observe the effectiveness of reaching the bacteria living in the deeper pockets that have formerly remained undisturbed.

The mystery for me, and perhaps many of us, was that I/we wasn't/aren't certain exactly where to look for, and treat, these anaerobic pockets.

[DRASTIC]

HI Searching,

Its good you are having all this success.

I wanted to find out if you had deep periodontal pockets in all of your gum before you started oral irrigation?


Did you have bleeding gums before you started all this oral irrigation?

Did you have any signs that you had some form of periodontal issue with the gums before you started all this irrigation?


Drastic

[searching]

I wanted to find out if you had deep periodontal pockets in all of your gum before you started oral irrigation?

Did you have bleeding gums before you started all this oral irrigation?

Did you have any signs that you had some form of periodontal issue with the gums before you started all this irrigation?

Drastic,

I'm not certain that I had deep periodontal pockets before starting oral irrigation; however, my dental hygienist was, at the suggestion of my dentist, making measurements of bone depth measured from the gum line. At the time, I never questioned why, nor did my caregiver proactively offer an explanation. They simply suggested that I continue using floss.

I did not have bleeding gums. In fact I floss daily and the flossing never exacerbated bleeding. However, weeks ago, when I restarted my oral irrigation, especially using the highest-velocity, liquid-jet, flow rate, there were indeed sections of my gums that stung when they received the high-speed flow. Those formerly-sensitive regions are now as pink, tough, and healthy (i.e. less-spongy) as all other areas of my gum line. In fact, overall, all of my teeth feel more-solidly anchored.

Before I started the irrigation, I did not notice a clear need to begin irrigation. Once I started, however, my baseline gum/oral health further improved.

[DRASTIC]

Hi Searching,

Thanks for replying.

One more question please.

Which machine are you using?

I have a hydrofloss kitty machine. I always used the lowest setting because I was afraid of hurting myself or my gums if i used the highest setting.

Which setting power do you use?


Thanks.

Drastic

[searching]

Which machine are you using?

Which setting power do you use?

Drastic,

It is an [old] Water Pik, Model WP-20W.

I use the highest, pulsating, flow rate, through a tapered tip. This jetted flow is extremely forceful, i.e. very effective in deep cleaning the teeth and gums; however, quite painful if directed to the tongue or throat (which I do not clean via jet irrigation).

The flow rate I use through this tip, which I just measured, is 700 milliliters (full reservoir)/2 minutes.

[mindyb]

I dug out my waterpik and filled it with about 1/8 of Hydrogen Peroxide and the rest with warm water. I orginally got my pik to clean out tonsils, which it was horrible for because even the low jet stung.
Searching, my mouth feels cleaner. It also feels like I woke up the dead under my gums. I'm afraid they are fuming with odor after my first use.
A few more questions, does your mouth fill up quickly with the water mix? Do you spit it out frequently? The manual also said they have a deep pick tip for periodontis. I want to get this, it looks as though it really helps get down in the gums.
How long doing your routine would you say you felt results? Have you confirmed with another person that you are bb free? Thanks for your helpful replies, I hope this helps me as well. I had bleeding gums at my last week appt. which indicates gingivitis, periodontal probs too.

[searching]

does your mouth fill up quickly with the water mix? Do you spit it out frequently?

How long doing your routine would you say you felt results? Have you confirmed with another person that you are bb free?

mindyb,

I use the oral irrigator standing at the sink, looking downward with my mouth partially open, just enough, so that the spent liquid drains from my mouth after entering, yet does not randomly spray about the room, i.e. my mouth does not fill with liquid.

I felt improvement within days. I direct the liquid-jet stream down, directly into my gums, and within a few days there was no discomfort. The gums properly tightened firmly around my teeth.

I have "self" confirmed that I am BB free. My breath now "smells" just of air or of the food I have just eaten. In fact, since I cannot any longer sense BB (as it is not there), I now occasionally sniff a bar of fragrant soap or a mint candy just to convince myself that I have not completely lost my sense of smell.

[DRASTIC]

Hi Searching has anyone said to you openly that you bad breath is gone?

or are you basing this on you own 'self'?


Drastic

[searching]

has anyone said to you openly that you bad breath is gone - or are you basing this on you own 'self'?

Drastic,

Good question!

I ask, how can I be sure without confirmation from others? Does this technique really work for me, or, is it an illusion?

Many of the methods that I have tried in the past seemed to have provided results that were somewhat ambiguous insofar as my sense of smell and taste were concerned. In those cases it would have helped to have other people judge my results or have a laboratory gas analyzer quantify a VSC measurement.

Lately, no one has commented on my breath, good or bad, and I haven't asked. I am claiming a change and improvement based on my sense of smell and taste. I fully understand that this not convincing to many readers.

What I do ask is to look at the thesis: i.e. In many cases chronic BB is caused by oral, anaerobic, microbial activity that persists after ordinary tooth brushing and flossing. This is due to microorganisms living and persisting in regions (e.g. gums, sinuses, tonsils, tongue, wisdom teeth) where ordinary tooth brushing and flossing cannot sufficiently disrupt the habitat. The microorganisms are continuously nourished; and, at low oxygen concentration, the anaerobic species survive and produce VSC's.

In the morning I [now] have mild morning breath when I awake, and, my sense of smell and taste confirms it. That makes sense, i.e. overnight there is low, or no, saliva flow and oral oxygen levels may be low. Very soon after brushing and irrigating, the former sensation (before this new routine was started) of morning breath is gone. In the past the sensation of morning breath would linger, until I ate, then it would sometimes return if the food eaten nourished bacteria in my mouth.

Now, that sensation of food fermenting in my mouth does not occur. The reason? I found where the anaerobic bacteria were living, in my particular case in pockets beneath the gum line, and I removed most by flooding and destroyed the rest by chemical oxidization and triclosan. I pumped water and oxygen, in the form of dilute hydrogen peroxide, deep into their cave. The remainder were managed with tooth brushing with triclosan and flossing.

This is not a cure. If it were, I could practice ordinary brushing and flossing and enjoy fresh breath all day. Instead, I include, in an ordinary routine, the use of a triclosan-containing toothpaste and oral irrigation with dilute H2O2. For me, this is transformative to the point where my sense of taste and smell provide feedback that is different than in the past, i.e. more neutral than before.

[halitosisux]

Mindyb,
I'm glad to hear from you again after your recent disappointment and that you are positively addressing the gum issue you were made aware of by your dentist.

Out of interest i visited a website which sells the water pik in the uk (boots.co.uk) and it states:-

> Clinically proven to reverse gingivitis and reduce gum disease.
> 50% greater reduction in gum inflammation compared to brushing alone.

According to the packaging on my toothpaste it states that:- "According to the U.S. Office of the Surgeon General, among adults aged 35 to 44, 48% have gingivitis and 22% have destructive gum disease."

Gingivitis equals gum disease, swelling, pockets, blood, pathogenic bacterial infection etc.
So, according to those statistics, if half of the middle-aged population have gingivitis, then even if ONE percent of those people had bad breath as a result of that gingivitis, that's roughly 1 percent of the populatation has bad breath directly attributable to gingivitis.

Is the cause of most bad breath such a mystery when it's backed up by such statistics? A dentist has to physically probe the gums with a periodontal probe to check for the presense of periodontal pockets. I had a wisdom tooth which had created an abnormal anaeobic structure inside my mouth. No dentist i saw ever told me there might be a pocket there, it was only when i realised the odour coming from it, and probed it for myself and pushed a syringe a good centimetre into the gum pocket that i realised what was happening. Anyone could have gingivitis and deeper than normal pockets caused by slack hygiene practices or difficult to reach teeth. This irrigation is WELL-WORTH anyone with BB to try it out. These oral bacteria which live in these spaces produce toxins which irritate the gum and prevent them from healing, but by irrigation these toxins are rinsed out. As searching has pointed out, his gums have physically healed due to this irrigation.

[mindyb]

Searching-
Thanks again for the info. I tried the pik this morning holding my mouth pointed to sink and open for it to drain & with tip down in gumline. I must say I had a very clean feeling all day. I have Colgate Total, so I've used it as well with the Triclosan(sp?). When I used Colgate or any toothpaste alone all these years, I could tell it did nothing. Almost like it "woke up" and heightened the odor/bb.
Did you have feel like your mouth/teeth/gums were just fuming the odor that everyone reacts to? My "fuming" seems to have declined alot.
I have NO idea if the bb is reduced. I am married and going to try talking to my husband face to face in bed tonight. I can usually tell when its bad by his reaction.
Halitosisux, thanks for thinking about me. Are you enjoying life with your new freedom. Don't let the bb you had in the past keep your self esteem down now that its gone. Very happy for ya! I am really hoping this helps fight the bb, just like searching said though- its no cure. What will depress me is that if the waterpik helps me alot- it will weigh on me that I could have been using it over the past 15 years and not suffered as much. Then maybe all those comments about not paying attention to my oral hygiene, were kinda true. I consider myself a smart and hygenic person, my mouth was always paid attention to. Ugh. Oh well, thats no way to look at it.