Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

fresh wrote:Yep, sadly once bad breath colonises you mouth, sinus or throat it is all but impossible to cure. Nearly all suffers will suffer bb for life.

I completely disagree with this. Everyone I've met off this forum including people at the BB and BO Xmas meet up in London have an intermittent problem or once had a problem but no longer have it.

Phantasist wrote:Fresh is right.
Most of us will suffer with this nightmare until the day we die.

bummer of a post. It's almost like yer ridiculing sufferers of bb. What is WITH you?

Who is the world expert of BB?

Seriously? There ISN'T an expert, is there?

The subject of bad breath is highly complicated because there are so many different possible causes. Some of the causes are probably not even known. Doctors know very little about this. Aydin Murat, the microbiologist in Istanbul, is probably the closest to an expert, but even he admits that there are things he doesn't know.

Like i said, there ISN'T an expert, is there? We're as much in the dark as we always were. It's shameful, the way the medical community has let the ball fall on this one.

Yep it would be nice to say bb is curable. And yes it seems it is, in some cases you find people who had bb and now don't. However these people do not have bb bacterial colonization, their bb is known as episode or periodic bb, often caused by a rotten tooth or tonsil stones. Periodic bb is just a step away from full colonization of bb bacteria, as you know that's about the most anti-social condition you could have. Oxymoronically you are left with a serious medical condition that is totally harmless to everyone, even yourself. One thing you see often is bb sufferers trying to colonize their body with “Good Bacteria” etc, this is analogous to England retaking USA today. The colonized always has the upper hand over the hopeful invader. Okay, let’s set all that aside and illuminate what you can do. It’s paramount to keep a healthy mind; it saves medical examiners being unable to find a reason why a perfectly healthy person killed themselves. So find a way to live with bb. And if you have children be sure to colonize their mouth with k12 during the first weeks after their born as this is the only time you can do it.

Fresh, what are you talking about.
Every mouth has billions of bacteria, mostly of the same species and profile, always producing a certain amount of background odour. Yes if some part like a tooth or sinus becomes chronically diseased it might produce its own odour and may cause the rest of the mouth to smell bad, but if this isnt the case then SOMETHING is causing or allowing this 'natural' bacteria in the mouth to produce more odour than normal, resulting in bad breath. And its not that much more odour production that makes the difference between a person who has BB to one who doesnt. So its about finding out why that might be so, or to find the most effective way to manage the situation.

Of course there may be complex biological or chemical reasons that remain as yet undiscovered why this might be happening. But that doesnt mean giving up, because the chances are that there is a known cause behind every single case of BB that manages to continuously evade diagnosis simply because a particular known cause of BB has yet to be investigated.

You could wipe out the entire microbial population of the mouth using chemicals and antibiotics in an attempt to restart the microbial colonization and eat k12 until it starts to come out of your ears, but it will all revert to the way it was before, because the ecology and factors which allowed it to be the way it was in the first place will still be there.

That's just it. NO ONE knows the source of it from the gitgo.

It is therapeutic to talk about it for people and that’s a good thing. And yep it could be, should be, might be, but really once you have ruled out all could be-should be, might be etc, you come down to the hard to take fact that bb suffers have a predisposition to bb that they got from their mom shortly after birth. And after a billion or so years it’s fair to say bb bacteria have worked out how to hold their turf. And yes we can talk about all the things we could do to reduce bb bacteria. But the inescapable is bb bacteria have never had it so good. Today’s life style, foods we eat and so on make being in someone’s mouth just gets better every decade. Still try your luck, you’re a billion or so years behind the bacteria but you could just beat them. Then go on to curing HIV/AIDs. And there you have something to thank bb for; you won't be having a great sex life with bb so you’re not going to get a STD anytime soon!
Just remember you get one shot at human bacterial colonisation and that’s in the first few weeks after your born, so think about adding some effort to that end. Just think about the life of new babies and how a small effort can make an enormous difference to their future. Though this could impact this sites subscriber base.

Most of the individual bacterial species in every mouth are capable of producing the odours associated with BB - how do you think most people who dont have BB during the day end up with morning breath?

The bacteria that colonize us would have done so no matter what we might or might not have done to try to alter that. That's why its impossible for a person who isnt already populated with the supposedly beneficial BB bacteria streptococcus salivarius, for example, to be able to permanently alter that.

Its not because other bacteria got there first and are holding their turf, its because of our unique individual habitat and ecology that determines what will and what will not end up establishing itself and the interactions between us and between themselves.

you come down to the hard to take fact that bb suffers have a predisposition to bb that they got from their mom shortly after birth. /quote]


And you know this how????????????????????????????

fresh wrote: if you have children be sure to colonize their mouth with k12 during the first weeks after their born as this is the only time you can do it.

I would never do this to a newborn.

Fresh,
Human beings have not been on this earth for a billion years. It has only been 65 million years since the dinosaurs became extinct. Humans have probably evolved in the last 5 million years or so. Of course the bacteria in the mouth have evolved right along with us during that period and are perfectly adapted. They can never be wiped out.
It is also known that a baby gets its bacteria from the mother in the first 48 hours of life. But introducing the K12 bacteria to the baby during that time may not work because there is most likely a predisposition for the wrong bacteria to take hold. If we have that predisposition for an overgrowth of anaerobic bacteria, then we will always have bad breath. The question is what is the underlying reason for that predisposition? I'm not talking about an infected tooth or something obvious. I'm talking about an unknown. I strongly suspect a missing antibacterial component in the saliva, but Halitosisux will probably disagree with that.

Streptococus Salivarius may very well be the predominant bacterium in a baby's mouth, but it seems to me that if there is a predisposition for the wrong kind of microfloral ecology, the anaerobic bacteria will eventually overwhelm the beneficial bacteria and bad breath will be the result. As long as the predisposition exists, there cannot be a permanent restoration of the original beneficial ecology.

Phantasist wrote:I strongly suspect a missing antibacterial component in the saliva, but Halitosisux will probably disagree with that.

I would disagree purely because Aydinmur has already explained that the "antibacterial" systems we have in the mouth are not really doing much at all to control what goes.

The biggest factor is the flushing effect of oxygen-rich saliva that constantly bathes the mouth and keeps most areas aerobic apart from the areas that have evolved not to be, such as the tongue surface.

Microorganisms are left to "fight it out" between themselves like they would do in any habitat. But, supply too much nitrient or too much of the wrong nutrients (such as blood for example) to these microorganisms and they'll go wild. Make it too dry or too acidic or alkaline or decrease the the amount of oxygen, and these are all predispositions that can make the difference between someone who has BB and someone who doesnt.