Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

And I won't even mention the fact that the only reason Dr. Katz and Dr. Speiser even know about Blis K12 is b/c I mentioned it one time to them!

Hate to see the Karma they gonna face in their next life. Don't worry I'll be waiting at the gates of hell to greet them!! LOL LOL

They know their shit doesnt really work, that's why they dont bother. Its not a solution to the problem unless you have harmless BB like coffee breath or onion breath from the lunch you just ate. Yeah maybe it reduces it for a while somewhat if the sole source of odour is your tongue and you scrape the **** out of it and you douse it in chemicals that neutralize the odour and kill off some of the bacteria. But that isnt dealing with the underlying cause for people with chronic BB and they know it.

I would like to see them give out vouchers for everyone on here to obtain BlissK12 system for free for however long it takes to find out if it works or not. That has the potential to work and there is evidence that it can work for type1 BB.

Giving out Blis K12, or any oral probiotics, will not work as long as the underlying cause is not eliminated.
I have been taking Evora Plus for weeks and it is just as you (Halitosisux) said in a previous post. The good bacteria cannot take hold in your mouth if you have an underlying cause that produces an incorrect microfloral environment in the mouth.

Phantasist, have you tried Blis-K12? Although Blis and Evora are both beneficial "probiotics", they work in different ways. And yes, neither will permanently alter the bacterial profile in the mouth, but the hope is that by swamping the mouth each day with these bacteria after removing and disrupting/removing as much of the pre-existing bacteria, you can make use of their beneficial effect until the flora eventually settles back to how it was. This is a viable solution if it actually works for anyone.

I cant remember who it was, but one forum member said Blis was a cure for them while they were able to afford to buy the stuff.

To all the people out there with experience of microbiology, can Blis-K12 not be continuously cultured like the yoghurts KeepTrying09 made in his videos? That way you'd only need to buy it once and you could continuously make it yourself. Is this possible?

KATZ and whoever, if you believe in your products, why dont you give people the opportunity to try BLIS-K12 with a few months free sample?

Susie wrote:Still waiting for Phil to take the stage.....no balls phil????

You know this whole deal with the breath products could have turned out so

I was not looking to take a 'stage' Susie. I wanted to know how I could help you because it seemed you had a negative experience with our products. I still do not know what that specific problem is. I did see that you were apparently very angry but beyond that I don't know what I can do to help.

In terms of assisting this community, we have sponsored this forum for several months when the admin was looking for support about a year or so back.

TheraBreath is one of the leading research halitosis research bodies in the U.S. Our products may not work for every case, but they work for millions of Americans. No treatment is effective for every case in every situation - not for bad breath or a flu or an earache. You need to try a variety of approaches and find what works for your particular case. We are happy that our product does work for a lot of cases. In the rare instance it doesn't we have a 100% money back guarantee so that it costs you nothing to try.

Again, I am not sure what your particular experience was but I am sorry our product didn't work.

Phantasist wrote:Giving out Blis K12, or any oral probiotics, will not work as long as the underlying cause is not eliminated.
I have been taking Evora Plus for weeks and it is just as you (Halitosisux) said in a previous post. The good bacteria cannot take hold in your mouth if you have an underlying cause that produces an incorrect microfloral environment in the mouth.

Evora Plus does not contain BLIS probiotic. I believe it is a gut probiotic that, as far as I can tell, won't colonize in the oral cavity. Plus it works through competitive inhibition which is not nearly as sophisticated as BLIS K12. The BLIS action is a targeted attack on hostile flora.

BLIS Technologies and TheraBreath have spent the last year developing a new oral care probiotic using both BLIS SK12 and the new M18 strains. Both of these strains show extreme promise in terms of selective efficacy against particular strains of hostile bacteria (including variants of S. Mutans). This new probiotic is a kit with dosing coming in stick pack form. Before attempting to colonize, the kit includes TheraBreath Toothpaste to prepare the oral cavity for colonization (the TheraBreath product is BASIC and reduces mouth acidity).

The kit will be available at Walgreens exclusively starting this April. There will be a one week special during which the $24.99 kit will be available for only $9.99. If you are interested in trying this type of probiotic product I highly recommend you check your Walgreens store in the next few weeks and grab a kit while they are on this introductory special.

Updated science and more details about the product is and will be available on the TheraBreath website. I don't monitor this board regularly so please feel free to visit our website to learn more.

Why is nothing like this ever in UK stores?

Phil :

BLIS Technologies and TheraBreath have spent the last year developing a new oral care probiotic using both BLIS SK12 and the new M18 strains.

Can you tell us more about the M18 strains . Is it the same M18 GAS ( Group A Strep ) ?

Evora Plus does not contain BLIS probiotic. I believe it is a gut probiotic

Please don't give false information about another competitive product or do some research if you are ignorant .

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... google.com

Halitosisux and Phil,

About three years ago I tried the full TheraBreath regimen including the K12 oral probiotics for a couple of months. The probiotics could not colonize my mouth.

I now get the best results with the following procedure: Brush with regular toothpaste, scrape tongue, brush tongue with Therabreath antibacterial toothpaste and rinse with TheraBreath antibacterial rinse. Then I disolve an Evora Plus tablet on my tongue. This diminishes my breath odor sufficiently so that I do not get reactions from most people. However, the effect lasts only a few hours. The coating on my tongue and the bad breath always return. It appears that the Evora Plus oral probiotics cannot overwhelm the anaerobic bacteria. I have not tried larger dosages, like maybe dissolving 5 or 10 tablets in a day.

I did some research about Blis M18 :

Frutarom, USA, launches BLIS M18, a patented oral cavity probiotic for complete oral protection. BLIS 18 provides advanced protection for the mouth and teeth. Developed from a specific strain of S. salivarius—common and beneficial oral bacteria—BLIS M18 has been clinically proven to promote the health of the mouth and oral cavity by continuously supporting and increasing the underlying health of the teeth and gums.

BLIS M18 is a new generation of advanced probiotic, friendly bacteria that, used in conjunction with regular oral hygiene practices, can establish a healthy balance of bacteria in the mouth and naturally protect the teeth and gums from oral and dental pathogens. A daily intake of BLIS M18 can aid in protecting teeth from bacteria known to cause tooth decay, while protecting teeth from erosion caused by high-acid foods and helping break up dental plaque.

People often experience common problems in their oral cavity, such as dental cavities, bad breath or gum disease, all resulting from an imbalance of oral bacteria. Most people practice regular oral hygiene routines, such as brushing their teeth, flossing and using mouthwash to reduce the “bad” bacteria in their mouths and leave breath fresh. These practices, while important, provide only short-term results, and in some cases can actually disrupt the natural balance of beneficial microorganisms in the oral cavity.

“BLIS M18 is a new approach for managing oral hygiene and dental health,” explains Laurent Leduc Vice President Health Frutarom Americas. “We are building a brand of oral cavity probiotics that answers consumers’ health-specific conditions. BLIS M18 follows the outstanding success of BLIS K12 in the marketplace.” BLIS M18 stands out by being derived from the highly beneficial bacteria S. salivarius M18, a proprietary strain of micro-organism that produces the potent BLIS antibacterial molecules, Salivaricins A, 9 and X that actively target and kill pathogens. This allows BLIS M18 to provide a wider range of activity against dental pathogens.

“BLIS M18 has also unique enzyme-producing abilities that help it break up dental plaque and neutralize acid that can be harmful to teeth and gums,” adds Leduc. This is a unique attribute of BLIS M18 not found in any other oral probiotics on the market today. BLIS M18 keeps the natural balance of beneficial microorganisms in the oral cavity and maintains oral health.”

Because BLIS M18 is an oral cavity probiotic, ideal applications are those that allow direct contact with the mouth, such as: lozenges and chewable tablets, chewing gums, stick packs, fast-melt tablets and powder drinks.

Phil :

My question is how we can prepare the oral cavity for colonization of the Blis K12 , how we can kill the bad bacteria

Biofilm infections, including those with symptoms of oral malodour, tend to be very persistent because the bacteria in the biofilm can evade the molecules and cells of the immune system. Antibiotics and antimicrobial rinses that would be used successfully on free-floating microorganisms are often not effective against bacteria that are grouped together as a biofilm.

Why are biofilms so resistant? Antibiotics such as penicillin are destroyed by the enzymes produced by bacteria in the biofilm so that only the external layer may sustain some damage. The deeper layer of biofilm is not affected. Even chlorine bleach, a highly reactive oxidant, has difficulty in destroying biofilm and burns very slowly through each microscopic layer.

Bacteria also can survive in the biofilm because the variety of conditions and bacterial types in the system provides protection against antibacterial agents. It is a case of "united we stand, divided we fall."

Bacteria can also form spores so that no amount of antimicrobial therapy will help. When bacteria form spores, they become dead material. The surprising element is that once the conditions are safe, these dead particles or spores come to life again.

Even if we manage to kill most of the bacteria in the biofilm, the surviving bacteria can use dead ones as nutrients; the remaining cells can quickly restore the biofilm to its original state in a few hours.

Bacteria attached in a biofilm manufacture hundreds of proteins not found in free floating cells. They can support each other nutritionally and often you will find one type producing a chemical as a waste product and its neighbour using the waste product as an essential nutrient. It is a clever way of recycling and also keeping the bacterial biosphere free from toxic products.

Certain bacteria within the biofilm have the ability to affect white blood cell functions by interfering with their ability to kill bacteria. These cells lose their phagocytic ability. This means that these white blood cells will not attack bacteria and ignore their presence.

Bacteria also attack our white blood cells and can destroy the integrity of these cells through certain enzymes that dissolve proteins and collagen causing the cell walls to disintegrate.

Given the complexity of interactions between our cells and the oral bacteria, it is not surprising that the biofilm can cause bad odours, tissue inflammation and even tissue destruction.

sadman wrote:Phil :

BLIS Technologies and TheraBreath have spent the last year developing a new oral care probiotic using both BLIS SK12 and the new M18 strains.

Information on the BLIS M18 strain is available at both the BLIS Technologies and TheraBreath websites. I don't want to summarize it because I am not a scientist and may not be 100% accurate. I urge you to look at the available science on-line as the strain is rather remarkable in terms of the early published clinical data.

Evora Plus does not contain BLIS probiotic. I believe it is a gut probiotic

Evora PLUS does NOT contain BLIS probiotic. It does contain several strains of what appears to be proprietary bacteria. In a recent meeting with members of our development team, I was told that several of the proprietary strains being used in oral care right now are gut probiotics. One actually happens to be a bovine gut probiotic. I am not saying these are the proprietary strains in Evora Plus but urge you to example those bacteria for yourself.

The link you provide is to the ORAGENICS websote. ORAGENICS is the developer of EVORA PLUS. The page lists the three strains they are using in their product. Google the three strains to see where they come from and what they do. For example, according to the Sanger Institute, Streptococcus uberis is one of the main causes of bovine mastitis.
I have spent the last six months working on the TheraBreath Multi Symptom Probiotic so have definitely read the competing science. No ignorance here, I promise you.

Phantasist wrote:Halitosisux and Phil,

About three years ago I tried the full TheraBreath regimen including the K12 oral probiotics for a couple of months. The probiotics could not colonize my mouth.

I now get the best results with the following procedure: Brush with regular toothpaste, scrape tongue, brush tongue with Therabreath antibacterial toothpaste and rinse with TheraBreath antibacterial rinse. Then I disolve an Evora Plus tablet on my tongue. This diminishes my breath odor sufficiently so that I do not get reactions from most people. However, the effect lasts only a few hours. The coating on my tongue and the bad breath always return. It appears that the Evora Plus oral probiotics cannot overwhelm the anaerobic bacteria. I have not tried larger dosages, like maybe dissolving 5 or 10 tablets in a day.

Hi Phantasist -

Sorry the K12 product didn't work as hoped. Bacteria likes a basic (vs. an acidic) environment. People's mouth chemistries are different and perhaps yours was more resistant to colonization.

If you found something that works that is great news. The one thing to consider in terms of using probiotic is that the effects are supposed to be long term rather than rapid - if you are seeing temporary benefit it is probably from the rest of your routine and not from probiotic. You need established colonies for probiotic treatment to actively work.

Something to consider is when your problem started. Did it have anything to do with antibiotic treatment? If so, then keep trying probiotic - it may be the long term solution for you if you can find an effective method for colonization. If antibiotics were never involved, then your problem could potentially lie elsewhere.

Last tip - when you use TheraBreath toothpaste make sure to also brush the surface of your tongue and inside your cheeks with the paste. A lot of bacteria hide beneath the surface of the tongue and other areas in the oral cavity you may not be brushing. Also, make sure nothing you are doing is creating excessively dry mouth. A dry mouth is an incubator for hostile bacteria.

Best of luck.

sadman wrote:I did some research about Blis M18 :

Frutarom, USA, launches BLIS M18, a patented oral cavity probiotic for complete oral protection. BLIS 18 provides advanced protection for the mouth and teeth. Developed from a specific strain of S. salivarius—common and beneficial oral bacteria—BLIS M18 has been clinically proven to promote the health of the mouth and oral cavity by continuously supporting and increasing the underlying health of the teeth and gums.

BLIS M18 is a new generation of advanced probiotic, friendly bacteria that, used in conjunction with regular oral hygiene practices, can establish a healthy balance of bacteria in the mouth and naturally protect the teeth and gums from oral and dental pathogens. A daily intake of BLIS M18 can aid in protecting teeth from bacteria known to cause tooth decay, while protecting teeth from erosion caused by high-acid foods and helping break up dental plaque.

People often experience common problems in their oral cavity, such as dental cavities, bad breath or gum disease, all resulting from an imbalance of oral bacteria. Most people practice regular oral hygiene routines, such as brushing their teeth, flossing and using mouthwash to reduce the “bad” bacteria in their mouths and leave breath fresh. These practices, while important, provide only short-term results, and in some cases can actually disrupt the natural balance of beneficial microorganisms in the oral cavity.

“BLIS M18 is a new approach for managing oral hygiene and dental health,” explains Laurent Leduc Vice President Health Frutarom Americas. “We are building a brand of oral cavity probiotics that answers consumers’ health-specific conditions. BLIS M18 follows the outstanding success of BLIS K12 in the marketplace.” BLIS M18 stands out by being derived from the highly beneficial bacteria S. salivarius M18, a proprietary strain of micro-organism that produces the potent BLIS antibacterial molecules, Salivaricins A, 9 and X that actively target and kill pathogens. This allows BLIS M18 to provide a wider range of activity against dental pathogens.

“BLIS M18 has also unique enzyme-producing abilities that help it break up dental plaque and neutralize acid that can be harmful to teeth and gums,” adds Leduc. This is a unique attribute of BLIS M18 not found in any other oral probiotics on the market today. BLIS M18 keeps the natural balance of beneficial microorganisms in the oral cavity and maintains oral health.”

Because BLIS M18 is an oral cavity probiotic, ideal applications are those that allow direct contact with the mouth, such as: lozenges and chewable tablets, chewing gums, stick packs, fast-melt tablets and powder drinks.

Thanks for posting. BLIS K12 and M18 are the primary actives in the new TheraBreath Multi-Symptom Probiotic that launches in Walgreens this month. If you do try the product please let me know your thoughts.

Once we receive the product from the plant I will try to get a few boxes to give away on this board.

sadman wrote:Phil :

My question is how we can prepare the oral cavity for colonization of the Blis K12 , how we can kill the bad bacteria

Great question. Imagine the bacteria is a plant you want to put in your garden. If the garden is already chock full of plants and you just drop your new plant on top it will wither and die. At the same time, if you spray a bunch of herbicide all over your garden to make room for the new plant it won't have a much easier time of it.

The new TheraBreath Multi Symptom Probiotic that is just about to hit shelves is a little different than what you may have seen from either Evora or Periobalance. Our kit comes with a tube of TheraBreath Toothpaste and nine stick packs of probiotic material.

Prior to daily use, we have you brush your mouth and tongue with TheraBreath Toothpaste. This provides two major advantages for colonization. First, the toothpaste works to disrupt ability of bacteria already in your mouth to metabolize. Second, the toothpaste reduces the PH level inside your mouth which is both beneficial to S. Salivarius K12 and M18 AND detrimental to a wide variety of anaerobic bacteria (the bugs that are responsible for the majority of breath odor).

The dosing involves you using 2 stick packs on the first day and one for days 2-6, with double dosing again on day 7. Each stick contains billions of BLIS bacteria ready to be reactivated when they come into contact with moisture. You mix the product inside the stick pack with water and immediately rinse and gargle with it. We literally flood your oral cavity with fresh, viable probiotic. Product is transfered to your oral cavity surfaces much more efficiently than chewing (you tend to chew with a select portion of your mouth).

In early clinicals, this method of colonization has shown extreme promise and substantial advantages over chewables or dissolving lozenges. Keep in mind that science in the area is ongoing and we learn more every year. However we are extremely confident this method of probiotic colonization of the oral cavity shows the most promise in terms of efficacy.

Hope that helps. Again, I do want to point out that not every treatment works for every person but this strain of probiotic consistently performs. It also happens to show some remarkable promise against biofilm. The proteins that BLIS bacteria secrete when exposed to hostile bacteria have been shown to impact biofilm in clinical trial.

P.S. By the way there isn't really an effective long term method to kill all hostile bacteria. The only long term solution is to manage it's population through hygiene and potentially probiotic treatment. Keep in mind though that bad breath doesn't indicate a lack of proper hygiene. Some people's mouths are more hospitable to certain bad bacteria than others for a variety of reasons (tongue and cavity geography, overall acidity of saliva, certain saliva secretions, predisposition towards dry mouth, etc).