halitosisux wrote:
By condensing, I mean pool of foul-smelling liquid/mucus at the back of the tongue and throat area produced by the breeding ground of bacteria present there, and as a person breathes out and these liquids evaporate, the vapour condenses onto the linings in the nasal cavity and in some cases may be pooling up, perhaps even calcifying etc in some of the crevices, in the same way that tonsil stones might be formed.
This is purely a concept, based on what I read many years ago, that tonsil stones are formed in this way from the VSCs in the mouth as they evaporate and condense in crevices.
Hi Halitosisux,
you can get calcifications in the nasal cavity, similar to tonsil stones. they are called rhinoliths. I think the formation of these calcifications is more to do with build up of debris which gets calcified, just like calculus on the teeth. I think VSCs are a byproduct of the bacterial activity that are associated with the stone (remember the living biofilm paper?), rather than the cause of the stone itself.
Gooner said his nasal BB diminished by blocking his nose during sleep and preventing the air flowing outwards. So this made me wonder how that could be possible, since you would normally expect odourous/infected situations in the nose to worsen with less aspiration.
a spaceous nasal cavity can create too much airflow and consequntly dries out the nasal mucosa. THis can lead to drying of secretions and crusting, secondary atrophic rhinitis would be an example of this process. In this conditon, if the airflow through the nose is reduced, this reduces the drying and hence the malodor.
Also, having read every single post on this forum since 2008, it appears to be the case that just about every person who suffers with nasal odours developed this some time after they became aware that they had bad breath from the mouth. Not vice-versa.
Thats v interesting...I can't explain that easily. Maybe their understanding of their symptom gets better, rather than the symptom changing?
When a person knows they've had bad breath at some point in their life, the fears never go. The same demons of negativity which allowed it to ever become an issue in the first place never go away. I think I will always be halitophobic (fear that my breath may smell bad, as opposed to a certainty that my breath must smell bad).
You have great insight into halitophobia, I especially thought about the "pre halitosis issues" comment. I think you could change your mindset regarding this fear, through hypnosis and cognative behavioural therapy. And time heals all as they say.
I find it so frustrating that people can get any kind of NHS help where a medical problem can cause psychological suffering and impairment. Bad breath is the worst nightmare imaginable, not just because of the way it eats into everything that makes a person human, but because of the despair when facing a world that thinks this problem is easy to deal with, when the reality for many is the complete opposite.
Often I feel like this too, but i suppose there are much worse medical conditions to have
I'm convinced that tonsil stones occur purely when there are high levels of bacterial activity on the rear of the tongue. As the tongue moves around and brushes against the tonsils and the entrance to the crypts, a near constant stream of tongue stench and debris pushes itself into the crypts where it gradually forms into a concentrated mass of whatever skank was sitting on the tongue.
Intersting theory...I think the research suggests obstruction of the outflow secondary to inflammation rather than debris being pushed into the crypt system.
hi Mike,
Someone had posted something quite detailed about Tonsils and their role in flushing the endocrine system, somewhat recently.
I don't know about anyone else who had tonsil stones, but my lymphatic glands all over my body always seem a little large, as if the body is constantly fighting an infection (allergies? Low immunity related?). The ones near my crotch area are very easy to feel out.
But, is it also possible that there's a constant leakage of lymph fluid through the various tonsils, and that overactive lymphatic systems have to work extra hard to empty more than the usual amount of infections in the body? That perhaps such fluid is pooling in our crypts, constantly draining from our adenoid tonsils near the sinuses, and causing a feeding frenzy of bacteria?
I'm not too hot on endocrinology, sorry...
But if you look at how tonsils stones form, by obstruction of the drainage of the crypt system, by factors that occlude the crypts...
Inflammation (tonsillitis) is the main factor in leading to obstruction of this drainage, and also would probably lead to increased flow of secretions from the tonsils. You might have some kind of allergy if all your glands are up. Tonsils themselves are lymph nodes/glands, so perhaps general lymphadenitis is linked to the same reason you had the chronic tonsillitis that caused formation of the stones. It is intersting to read that children seem to have worsening of psoriasis after tonsilectomy. This is an autoimmune skin conditon. It is probably more evidence that the tonsils are a sampling center for the immune system to monitor what antigens are present in the mouth and enterring the aerodigestive tracts.
I don't have that tonsil stone taste anymore after having the tonsillectomy... But I do have a strange, almost acid taste, that seems to occur within my saliva, very often, not even 10 min. after brushing, gargling, etc... What are the bacteria feeding on? And what bacteria, after nuking my mouth with a complex regime? What if I'm tasting the result of the excreted lymph, and either that alone can cause odors, or that kick starts struggling bacteria back into play?
you may just be having a funny taste from "nuking" (not sure what chemicals etc invovled here). Also worth remembering taste does not usually equal smell that other can detect.
I still have my adenoid tonsils, and I have to wonder if even the closed off remains of the tonsils have some pores, or some welling of toxic lymph fluid.
You won't have anything left of the adenoid by your age, it is only noticeable tissue in children really, then it shrinks right down.
I too did worry about not removing the whole tonsil crypt system, i had mine removed whole. I read in one textbook that in children they can grow back if they are only partially removed. I will quote from my paper:
"Detailed study of the pathogenesis of tonsillolith formation makes complete removal of the tonsillar crypt system theoretically favorable over resurfacing (tonsilotomy), which may increase stenosis of crypt orifi, further predisposing to impaired drainage of secretions, stagnation and stasis."
... but this is just speculation really. There are several papers published that show the various types of partial tonsil removal are effective at curing halitosis related to bad breath. I will have to reword this part of the paper actually with these other references I later found.
By the way, this reminds me. I work with a girl on Fridays. She's quiet, kind of shy, odd person. Her breath has always been rank of that specific Tonsil Stone smell... Poor girl. Wonder if she knows though. She doesn't look as paranoid as I do. Hah, I guess I should feel worse for the students, what with the pair of teachers they have. I wonder if she still has her tonsils, or if it could be something else.... I wonder if she stresses about it.. I wonder if she has a routine that doesn't work... Or perhaps, if she has no idea, therefore, isn't putting much effort into tidying up her mouth extra well. Anyway, that's not oral neglect, but I wonder if having that tonsil stone smell could be kept at bay with extra simple oral hygiene.
I would want to tell her (not sure if I would be brave enough to though, probably I would)... but be sensitive etc
