Streptococcus salivarius K12 WORKS!!! (for me)

emotional rescue · Post by **emotional rescue** » Thu May 08, 2008 2:14 pm

Snobuni wrote: I don't use juice because I didn't buy from Katz so I don't mix in the Oxygen drops. (Is it worth giving this a try? I think sweets tried it with the drops and it didn't work). I've stopped using the yoghurt cos it just coated my tongue and made my breath smell like cheese after a while!!

Last year when i tried it for a month, i used the Aktiv Oxygen drops with Orange juice, and then the K12 with water, and it worked great for me at least for 6 hours on each intake...

Now i´m waiting my order to arrive, but i ordered three bottles of k12 from NZ without AO or CHX, i have 3/4 of a bottle of AO from another order, so what i´m planing to do is to use it with oranje juice till it´s empty, and then keep taking just the K12, maybe with yogurt....

I´ll report back

Snobuni · Post by **Snobuni** » Thu May 08, 2008 5:21 pm

Emotional Rescue,

How come you stopped using it when it was working so well? I'm just deceiding whether to try Dr Katzs K12 with the oxygen drops in juice. It's going to cost me £45 for a months K12 and drops from him. I don't know if this will be a complete waste of money cos nothing has really happened with the Blis K12 so far.

Which toothpaste were you using at the time when it worked?

Snobuni · Post by **Snobuni** » Thu May 08, 2008 6:50 pm

I'm starting to get that weird fish smell too!! I noticed it today, when I lean forward I suddenly smell it!! My breath doesn't normally smell of fish, it's more like feet, but I'm only smelling it coming from my nose!!!! I'm thinking it might be coming from my stomach, maybe the bacteria is mixing with stuff down there!

Does anyone else have this besides the guy who gets it when he's lying down? It's really worrying, do you think it stays if you stop using the K12?

I don't want to stop the K12 just yet...

sweets07 · Post by **sweets07** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:36 am

Snobuni wrote:I'm starting to get that weird fish smell too!! I noticed it today, when I lean forward I suddenly smell it!! My breath doesn't normally smell of fish, it's more like feet, but I'm only smelling it coming from my nose!!!! I'm thinking it might be coming from my stomach, maybe the bacteria is mixing with stuff down there!

Does anyone else have this besides the guy who gets it when he's lying down? It's really worrying, do you think it stays if you stop using the K12?

I don't want to stop the K12 just yet...

no that's not normal. people's breath doesn't just start to smell like fish. maybe feces or stale. from my experience the fish smell only happened after i started using this topical antibiotic for acne and dioxirinse. this was at the same time so i can only conclude that it's the result of resistant anaerobic bacteria growing in the mouth, where everything else good and bad (feet smelling stuff in your case) may be died. my best friend has the fish smell but she used dental miracle (more zinc nonsense) and i think that induced it.

i experience the fish smell from time to time during the day as of recently, but that is part of my history with bb. it's NO where as bad as it was before i started K12 though. pre-K12 i would swab my tongue and it smelled like a tampon... only ladies would really get understand how serious that is... just nasty. now i only detect it by smell. i don't smell anything like that when i swab my tongue.

i'm still only using the same toothpaste to clean my mouth and adding K12 to my tongue. i eat yogurt if i feel like it... but not so much recently.

chomp · Post by **chomp** » Fri May 09, 2008 3:31 pm

hey folks, for a change stop taking yoghurt and see how that works. yogurt is high in protein and it will cause a fecal smell that will remail for several days. Either leave it out for a week or two while using K12 and check how that goes or dilute the yogurt with lots of water.

sweets07 · Post by **sweets07** » Sat May 10, 2008 6:18 am

i noticed today when i brushed my teeth and tongue my breath was fine. then i added the K12 to my tongue and my breath smelled fishy. i'm going to stop taking K12 and just stick to drinking danactive yogurt and see how things go. i guess u can only use k12 but so much... it's been about 2 months now and i guess it's time to give it a rest.

emotional rescue · Post by **emotional rescue** » Sun May 11, 2008 1:54 am

Snobuni wrote:Emotional Rescue,

How come you stopped using it when it was working so well? I'm just deceiding whether to try Dr Katzs K12 with the oxygen drops in juice. It's going to cost me £45 for a months K12 and drops from him. I don't know if this will be a complete waste of money cos nothing has really happened with the Blis K12 so far.

Which toothpaste were you using at the time when it worked?

At that time i stick to the supossedly plan that you should use it one month of six, so i ordered just one bottle just to try, very expensive and very expensive shipping, then i realized that it was working very well on me but i thought it would help for several months, wich wasn´t the case. Then some months later i just ordered Aktiv oxygen but it didn´t worked so good,

Yesterday i tried Activ oxygen with OJ, and for my surprise it didn´t worked to good as it used to work for me last year....so i don´t know what to recommend,

I allready spend 100 dollars in a K12 order that i´m waiting to recieve.....i would have to try again (not very hopefull......)

The toothpaste at that time was just regular with fluor, maybe colgate, but i don´t remember, i don´t think it helped.

thanatos · Post by **thanatos** » Sun May 11, 2008 3:11 am

Here's a reason why K12 might lose effectiveness over time:

The bacteria in our mouths mutate to survive. This is why antibiotics create super-resistance bugs. K12 works by secreting lantibiotics which kill off the bad breath bacteria. The bacteria in and of itself does nothing. It has to release those lantibiotics.

The bad breath bacteria might be simply adapting to these lantibiotics.

Snobuni · Post by **Snobuni** » Sun May 11, 2008 11:31 am

I've been doing a bit of reading on the net (I was feeling so low Friday, suicidal again, disappointed that the Blis wasn't working).

I found some documents that said chlorine dioxide (i.e. Katz Oxygen drops) work better in an acid (i.e. orange juice), so I gave the Blis a go after rinsing with some dioxirinse I had left and it did seem to work alot better, got rid of the bad taste at least. I'm starting to think that alot of people on this forum are having success with K12 cos of the CD and OJ mix rather than the actual K12, and this wierd fishy side-effect of the K12 is freaking me out!!

Also, I read a paper that looked at whether the long term use of CHX and other antibacterials cause oral bacteria to become super resistant, and thankfully they don't!! Here's the link if anyone wants to read it;

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/m ... 1/art00001

I'm going to keep on using CHX as I think it helps alot (and as I've mentioned before, other research found that it reduced bacterial strains significantly after 21 days of twice a day usage) so I'm hoping it's effects will get better.

Btw, Curasept is a CHX that doesn't stain your teeth like Corsodyl does. It tastes awful, so I use it half an hour before brushing so I'm not left with a bad after taste.

Thanatos, do you think your K12 is still working? It looks like sweets' isn't.
I think the idea behind K12 is good, but our mouths are just too hostile and environment to support good bacteria, especially if we can't produce our own, it's always going to be out competed by the bad bacteria. I think the only way forward is to try to control the bad bacteria with antibacterials until a way is found to innoculate our mouths/bodies with bacterial strains that can out compete the bad stuff.

thanatos · Post by **thanatos** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:03 am

Sno, I don't think the K12 is working all that well.

Since they discovered (supposedly) that Solobacterium moorei is the dominant bad breath bacteria in the mouths of CH sufferers, I think they should start doing genetic modifications on this strain and reintroduce them into our mouths.

Dr. Jeffery Hillman of Oragenics did this for the bacteria strain that causes cavities. Supposedly, not only does the modified strain not cause cavities, but it dominates the strain that does.

This is the stuff we need! I'm so sure this is the closest thing we have for a cure or treatment in our lifetimes. If we can't kill the bacteria, genetically modify them!

Snobuni · Post by **Snobuni** » Mon May 12, 2008 10:15 am

There seems to be alot of interesting research going on at the minute, looking at different strains of oral bacteria, which can only be a good thing.

The frustrating thing is, that most researchers/dentists focus on the problem of bacteria living in and creating acid environments which attack the enamel of teeth, with the mutans (?) strain of bacteria being the main culprit.

Although this is true for most people with 'normal' mouth fauna, I think they don't fully address the problem that most people with bb have alkaline mouths and have problems with S. moorei, (apart from that recent research paper that found S. moorei in bb mouths but not in mouths without bb).

Thanatos, do you have the link to Hillman's work? Surely if he can do this for the bacteria that cause cavities he can do the same for the bacteria that cause bb!!!! As you said, I think this will be the only way of ever getting rid of this problem for good. All we can do before that is try to control the bad bacteria with any means possible, unfortunately, I don't think this will include using BLIS, I'm probably going to carry on with the CHX and the CD/OJ rinse though

bleh · Post by **bleh** » Mon May 19, 2008 1:26 am

Well well well...i've been on the k12 regime for a little over a month. So far my mouth odor has gone from EXTREME severeness to a mild odor that can only be sensed if you're about a foot or two away from my face. The k12 has seemed to have aggravated my nasal bb though. I noticed when ppl walk by me they touch their nose for a few seconds until they're about two feet or so away from me. The DAMN problem about bb is that you can never sense if you're being "halitophobic" or you're breath really does stink!! I hardly ever have a taste in my mouth, but some smelly PND in the back of my throat. I wish I had the guts to go up to someone and be like "yo...does my breath stink or does everyone else have a problem with touching their nose all the time???" Sometimes I just observe when I'm alone how often people take gasps of air when they're away from people, or how often they touch their noses. I noticed one of my friends always takes a gasp of air whenever he passes or is near me...but the other day I noticed that even when he's alone he tends to take gasps of air. Do ppl just gasp around me because they just assume my breath stinks? B/c there are other times when my friend takes a gasp of air when she/he passes me and then starts breathing through their nose? WTF...I wish i had the nerve to just straight up ASK SOMEONE!! I got no taste in my mouth, when I breathe into the palms of my hand there's only a minor smell (and i take into consideration that i'm probably immune to the smell of my breath) but i know it can't be THAT bad...wtf. I look at my tongue, almost perfectly pink...rarely ever white. I even ate onions on a burger today and only a VERY minor hint of onion in my pnd. I'm so aggravated with this situation. I feel sooooooooooo sensitive to everytime someone scoots their chair away from me, opens their sunroof window/car window, takes a gasp of air around me, squints their nose, backs away, clenches their teeth together and breathes, and straight up covers their nose. I mean...I'm not complaining, EVERYONE used to react to my breath before, now its occasional but this has mentally ruined my life. I could be 100% "cured" and told over and over again that my bb is forever gone, but everytime someone touches their nose or opens their sunroof i'm gonna go crying home being liek 'MY BB IS BACK! (even though there's no taste...or hint of bb' I feel like I'll ALWAYS be scared for life. I even had the nerve to ask my friend yesterday if our mutual friend has a reason for always keeping his sunroof open all the time. She replied that he's always trying to air out his car b/c hes "always doing something in his car (smoking weed, etc)" Am I being oversensitive, or have they discussed my problem behind my back and she's trying to cover it up?

PLSSSSS SAY IM NOT GOING INSANE...i really feel at times that i am.

perrymason · Post by **perrymason** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:10 am

ASK AWAY.

bleh · Post by **bleh** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:42 am

i know...i know...it sounds like such a minor problem to most of you. i think my mental health problem all rooted back to when i was really young. i remember in the car finally getting up the courage to ask my mom to bring me to a dentist to check out the problems with my bb (and i'm very shy by nature). she reacted in a horrific manner as if that's something that nobody talks about. (she sufferED from the problem too, or so she and my sister said). ever since then i've had a mental phobia of ever bringing it up to anyone, even my closest friends. i think that's the major strain between me and my mom, the minute she refused to find me help on something that had taken such a severe toll on my childhood/now young adulthood. i'm sure some of you can relate...

perrymason · Post by **perrymason** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:51 am

My parents were actually like "W/e makes you happy, we'll take you to the dentist, then the ENT"

Nothing to lose in asking, you being shy shouldn't prevent you from actually finding out if you have BB or not. Your shy personality shouldn't come into play when you're in contact with strangers. Just go to the supermarket or the mall and let out a big whiff where there a lot of people, and watch the reactions. (Hahaha i've done it @ a CVS).

Disregarding the reactions, just ask a random stranger in the dental aisle if your breath is funky, and if they say yes, pretend to buy some listerine or something.

Truth > being shy