Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

lol no stranger in their right mind would ever say "yes you're breath STANKS" to a complete stranger. the VERY few times that i've asked the people i date if i "taste funny" or "smell like this" all of them said they smell "nothing." which i know is complete bs. i went to see my eye doctor the other day and i took a deep breath and exhaled out of my mouth and he breathed through his mouth immediately. i couldn't tell if that's just how he is naturally, or if my breath smelled (i couldn't sense any taste or even PND, so i didn't get it.) i know personally when someone gets too close or exhales in my face that i don't know my immediate reaction is to hold my breath or breathe through my mouth just in case their breath smells. bb reactions are all a mystery to me. unless i paid everyone a dollar and lined them all up to tell me their honest opinion of my breath...my grasp on how atrocious my breath really is will always be skewed.

you should be glad to have supportive parents. my parents tend to try to ignore the problem all together with me, and hope that i find a solution on my own. i'm starting a job soon with a fortune 100 company that offers really good benefits so hopefully that'll knock off a lot of the price for when i get my own insurance and seek my "cure." at least the k12 is a major step in that direction. i'm just fearing being in meetings with other people, or having to talk about an issue at work and being surrounded by 4 or 5 people in my cubicle. ugh...bb is worse than cancer IMO. at least with cancer theres ongoing research on how to cure it...whereas bb "cures" are happening at turtle speed.

Wow, haven't been on this site in years... last time i was i had suggest that jimi get tested for tmau. That must have been something like two years ago. Good to see that he is still at it, i have had any revelations in my fight but since you guys are on the issue of products i have been using something that has not cleared me of my prob. only made it managable. Like you Bleh i think and am not even sure, i only judge based on peoples reactions with no real feedback. I can see that your temp. (or maybe even permanent solution has caused you some drama with people on this site but who can blame them when nothing seems to work. Since you guys say that the k12 has been working for you and that it was the same product just distrubuted throught different companies i was wondering if the product Closysis was the same thing? I have been using it for a couple years now and i only know that it keep my problem at bay. I still don't get too close to people, ever. But i have managed to develop a few friends and they don't seem to notice as much as the people i used to work around a few years ago. Anyway i was reading how you said that in some ways that this disease or whatever it is has psychologically fucked you up in that you will problaly won't be able to get to close to people in meetings, just wanted you to know you are not alone i have expierenced many things you speak of. Anyway just i little personal advice, you are think of confiding in someone to test your breath on, i only warn to be very careful who you trust. Although some people will still be your friend even if they know of your problem they may still make jokes when you are not around and they will most likely tell someone trust of your misfourtune. Either way it they will probaly still remain your friend if you want them to, but you will be crippled in thier eyes to some degree. Believe me i only speak from first hand knowledge. You might better trust making a friend of this site. someone who live in your area for your expierments, if not at least find someone who you will not have to deal with on a daily basis. Good luck and hope you really have a found a decent solution. I am going to try the k12 as my solution with Closysis, even though it helps me some only lasts a couple hours....

Wow...there is a lot of opinions about Therabreath. So, I started using the mouthwash about 8 days ago. I don't even know if it's working and at this point, I don't care. I am experiencing this awful metallic taste in my mouth. Everything I eat or drink, including water, has this taste. Did/does anyone who is using or has used this product suffered from this? And does it go away? I called Therabreath and they said that it goes away after a couple of weeks. I'm not inclined to believe them so if you guys tell me it doesn't go away, the bottle is going in the trash. I'd rather have BB than have this terrible taste in my mouth. I would appreciate any advice from anyone who has used Therabreath mouth wash. Also, are there any known side effects? I can't tell if there is a difference between chlorine dioxide and chlorhexidine. Are they the same thing? I've seen some stuff about side effects like teeth stains on chlorhexidine, but not sure sure if that is in Therabreath or not. Thanks!

All these fuckers are using clo2 that is chlorhexidine in so form or other.

Chlorine dioxide is made from chlorhexidine by simply adding citric acid or vinegar or lemon juice

it is unstable form so it can not last forever.

I have super sideefects from that garbage

Question: Can I use the K12 before I go partying ? will the mix of alcohol beverages affect the breath?
You guys don't know the desire that I have to be able to talk to someone directly and closely ;-( and to party with out stress or holding my tongue when I talk to someone. I hate this!! i wish God could cure all of us .

I think we all know that desire.

The K12 probably won't work if you plan on drinking alcohol, but I guess you have to try it out or you'll never know

I’ve just spent the past couple days reading through this particular posts multiple pages and felt compelled to do something I have not done before…..post about my own personal experiences.

I too suffer from bb and am desperately seeking a cure. I’m sure as with most of you it affects my life in an extreme and unkind way. Without sounding too arrogant, I am a handsome guy, athletic with a degree in chemical engineering. Most would think that I have a lot of great qualities, and even though I project a very confident persona, I know on the inside that I am in shambles due to bb. Recently I have begun to cover my mouth when I speak and have gotten to a point where I speak so softly without realizing it because I am afraid that speaking up would expel more of this putrid air out.

I first became aware of my problem about 8 years ago during my junior year in college. The reason I’m including this bit of info is because entering my sophomore year I began taking a prescription for acne called Accutane. This is a very potent and powerful drug that is typically used for the most severe cases of acne, and my case was more mild/medium if anything. I almost liken it to putting a thumbtack into a corkboard using a sledge hammer. I probably could have used other lesser medications, but due to the social pressures of college, I wanted a be all end all cure for my problem. Much like what we are all seeking now for bb. I still to this day wonder if this was the initial cause of my bb, due to the linkage of acne with bacteria, and the reduction of bacteria from Accutane

Along with bb, I also at times seem to have a fecal odor that emanates from my body as well. I eat a very healthy diet full of fresh veggies, and stay away from red meat. I have conscientiously chosen to reduce red meat in my diet because I seem to have found a correlation between my BO and the protein source, and more recently as well with pasta.

I have read some posts mentioning Candida fungus as a possible cause of bb and fecal BO. I have just recently seen my doctor about dark spots that have appeared on my skin. He claims the condition to be Tinea Versicolor, which is a fungus, and prescribed me Ketoconazole 200 mg pills which is an anti-fungal prescription which by the way also is used in treatment of Candida. If there is any truth to Candida being a contributor to bb then logic dictates that I should see an improvement in my breath over the 10 day regiment of pills while carrying on with my regular oral routine. I will keep you guys posted on any developments. (I just took the 4th pill and have not seen any noticeable differences)

As with most of you I also have PND and have been for the longest time convinced that this is the cause of my bb. The protein rich mucus that drips and remains coated in our throats is a prime fuel source for the bacteria in our mouth and as a by product, VOC’s are produced. I have seasonal allergies and figured that the PND is due to the allergens introduced into my sinus cavity from pollen in the surrounding area. I have done everything from taken immunotherapy shots, sinus irrigation, nasal surgery and over the counter and prescription medicines to alleviate the PND, all to no avail. However I do have to say that nasal irrigation does wonders in temporarily clearing out the mucus that would otherwise persist. I find that if I take any OTC or prescription medicine, then my bb becomes absolutely nuclear!! My mouth and sinuses become so dried out that the mucus thickens up and seems to just take my bb to another level.

I purchased a bottle (16 oz) of Chlorohexidine Gluconate from my dentist and seemed to get some favorable results from it. I would take it in the morning with my normal oral routine and before bed as well. If I had any social event to be at, I would also take it right before I left the house, and it made me confident enough to interact freely (I am forced to interact, I don’t have the luxury of keeping my mouth closed at all times around people). However I did notice that at one point during a conversation I smelled an absolutely awful odor when I was speaking with someone, but I wasn’t sure if this was coming from me or the female. I say this because normally I can’t smell my own breath so I was convinced that it had to be her, but I did not smell it again later on. Not sure what to conclude from this, but perhaps the CHX didn’t work as well as I thought it had been.

I have finished my bottle after 30 days consecutively using this product and haven’t really noticed any staining as of yet, so I may go back to my dentist for another bottle.

I too as most of you have tried every gimmick, treatment, and home remedy under the sun to cure this, and even tried Blis back in 2004(ish) and was praying that it was the answer. Obviously by me posting here today, it was not. However reading these posts has given me a renewed interest, and might as well give it another shot. I will try the methods that have been used here and see if there are any better results.

In my readings of the posts here I have read that most presume that an alkaline mouth (ph>7) is a prime breeding ground for the bacteria in our mouths. However I have read accounts supporting both sides of the ph spectrum. Can anyone post a link to the resources that they are citing to debate the validity of the effects of the ph level in ones mouth to bacteria growth/inhibition?

If you’ve read this far thanks for taking the time, and I am eager to hear any feedback.

i just started using the activ k-12 serum from therabreath and powder (for about a week now) and i think it is working. i had gone to anne bosy a few years ago but she now has these other clinics called oravital (like a franchise?) but i don't find them as good at all. the other offices don't seem to know what they're doing, really, and i don't think anne bosy sees patients anymore at all (which is too bad since i found her more knowledgeable). i was started with a strong antibiotic rinse (i think nystatin or something?) that you need a prescription for (you use it for 2 weeks and it just kills everything in your mouth), and then i'd been using smartmouth (started it from when it was still called trioral) 5 days a week, plus a chlorhexidine rinse 2 days a week.. the latter two are supposed to be as a maintenance treatment. every year or so, i go back to the office and get the prescription rinse again and start over. this system kind of keeps things under control but i find it hit and miss.. comes and goes. lately, i found that it was not working anymore and i think it may be due to having had to take antibiotics (pills) for 9 months recently to get rid of an infection.. it must have zapped any good bacteria in my mouth too. i get periodontal disease, but i also remember having bb before i got my gum problems so it probably also originates from the back of my tongue or something. even when there's no odor between my mouth that i can detect, i can still have bb. i also have a coated tongue that doesn't go away, even if i don't eat yeast for awhile. i don't know if that's related to the bb problem or not. also, i don't love smartmouth because of the 2 bottles mixing thing.. so it makes it awkward to carry with you if you want to have some on hand when you are out.. not very convenient.

anyway, i have a question about aktiv k-12:

on the days that i am supposed to be using the chlorhexidine rinse, should i rinse with it 5+ minutes after using aktiv k-12? or should i just stop its use entirely for the month? i'm worried about 2 things:

1. will the chlorhexidine kill off the good bacteria i am trying to establish?
2. if i don't use my chlorhexidine rinse during the month, will my bb worsen?

any info people have would be greatly appreciated! i tried emailing therabreath for help but the customer service rep didn't seem to know what she was talking about (she had to look up chlorhexidine and said there is alcohol in it? that makes no sense..)

also, another question i have is whether the chewing gum or lozenges might be useful as a "maintenance" thing in between uses of the powder (i.e. the months you are not using the powder)?

also, i find the serum doesn't work as well (especially when you only use 8 drops in more water on days 2-7).. so that's why i keep wanting to still use the chlorhexidine, but i'm afraid it may kill the good bacteria as well?

thanks!

well, the update is i don't think it works anymore (not after a few days)...

I've been using K12 for about 2 months. I've noticed no benefit from it, especially in terms of improving my breath.

The idea behind k12 is it will colonize your tongue and prevent bad bacteria coming back. After lengthy testing at Otago University it turn out to be all most impossible for k12 to colonize your tongue. So what did the sellers of k12 do? They just change it from a quick cure of halitosis to an ongoing use of k12 every day for the rest of your life! It’s a total rip-off and it has been shown over and over it can't even get rid of bad breath for a few minutes let alone all day. Yet it’s promoted so well that when people buy into it they think its really working when really it’s doing stuff all. Don't waste your money on this k12 junk as there is no chance of it curing your bad breath. It’s just another scam like thera breath etc.

nomad wrote:Thanks for sharing with us! That's really good news. It seems that different things work for different people, considering that BLISS or K12 hasn't worked for everyone. I'm really glad you got positive results from it, though. I never actually tried the stuff and I'm now more than ever considering buying some of that myself.

Question: How did you confirm that your bb is gone?? Have you actually asked anyone?

The idea behind k12 is it will colonize your tongue and prevent bad bacteria coming back. After lengthy testing at Otago University it turn out to be all most impossible for k12 to colonize your tongue. So what did the sellers of k12 do? They just change it from a quick cure of halitosis to an ongoing use of k12 every day for the rest of your life! It’s a total rip-off and it has been shown over and over it can't even get rid of bad breath for a few minutes let alone all day. Yet it’s promoted so well that when people buy into it they think its really working when really it’s doing stuff all. Don't waste your money on this k12 junk as there is no chance of it curing your bad breath. It’s just another scam like thera breath etc.

does anyone know why it is unable to colonize your mouth? what conditions are required for it to do so?

i found this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16553730

here is a better summary:
http://bit.ly/fIGnch

anyway, i wonder if using an antibacterial rinse like chlorhexidine will also kill off the good bacteria that you are trying to establish? would it work to use something (like the 2 week prescription antibiotic they give you at the oravital clinics - i forget the name of it.. it may be metronidazole/flagyl) to completely wipe out all bacteria (presumably good and bad) and then start the course of K12 once the bad bacteria is all gone, in order to re-establish the good bacteria?

i wonder what creates the best conditions for it to latch on and colonize if that seems to be the problem..

i still do feel that there is some sort of answer to the probiotics concept because a lot of us have bb due to a bacterial imbalance in the mouth..

when i was using the K12 kit from therabreath, i found that my white tongue coating disappeared.

Nice idea to use a course of metronidazole first. It's actually mentioned as an approach in that second summary you pasted.

One way to look at this, is to look at things in reverse. We all started off with s.salivarius colonizing our mouth within hours of being born and remaining the predominant bacterial species until our teeth start to erupt from our gums. The eruption of teeth (and other factors) creates a new habitat for other species of bacteria to take hold. Eventually, we end up with over 600 different species inhabiting our mouth.

We're led to believe that some adults continue to naturally have more s.salivarius than others, and that this gives them a virtual immunity to having BB. This may be true. But as that summary shows, ongoing treatment by regularly sucking on lozenges with K-12 does have a positive effect if your tongue is the sole source of odour. It's almost like being on a form of antibiotics. The effect works as long as you take them, but it doesnt work as a permanent cure, because if it could we wouldnt have lost our s.salivarius to 600 other species of bacteria in the first place.

But as a bad breath management for type-1 BB, I think probiotics like this, if you can find an effective way of administering them, such as finding out for yourself when the best time to use Chlorhexidine and other antibiotics, are potentially the most effective way to deal with this type of BB.

ruch wrote:does anyone know why it is unable to colonize your mouth? what conditions are required for it to do so?

i found this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16553730

here is a better summary:
http://bit.ly/fIGnch

First of all, that study was was created by John Tagg, the man who is trying to push K12 into the halitosis market.

You basically can't get other bacteria to colonize in your mouth because in order for bacteria to do so they must first attach themselves to the surfaces of the mouth. The ligand of a bacteria (also called the "anchor") must attach itself to a cell receptor. If you have a bacterial anchor that does not fit the mucosa cell receptor, then there can be no adhesion.

You can wipe out 100% of the bacteria in your mouth and pour in trillions of units of K12 in your mouth and it won't do anything because the cell walls in your mouth only accept certain anchors & if you have bad breath caused by bacteria, then it's safe to say that the only type of bacteria your mouth will colonize is bad breath bacteria.

This is why I think a solution could be to discover what type of receptors we have available in our mouths and try and replace the bad breath anaerobic bacteria with anaerobic bacteria that might not be as offensive or may not produce foul odors at all.

that way, the condition can be manageable