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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:40 pm
by ihatethebus
sadman wrote:Oral bacteria live on Proteins supplied by leftover of food , dead cells , protein in saliva ...If we cut off those protein supplies to the bacteria , we can kill them or control their growth just as taking raw diet or using antibiotic but with no side effects and bacterial resistance . That's what I am trying to do during the last few days by using digestive enzymes found in Creon , a prescription drug which contains Amylase ( for Glucose digestion) Lipase ( for Lipid ) and Protease ( for Protein ) My theory is that Protease will break down those proteins in the mouth , especially those leftover food debris , dead cells on the tongue coating and enzymatically clean the mouth without brushing , flossing or scraping the tongue , and the Saliva will take those broken down proteins away and cut off the nutrition supply to the bacteria . Besides that , bacteria are also protein and Protease can break them down too .
Creon is a capsule with granules of enzyme inside. I break open the capsule . pour the granules inside my mouth ,chew them and keep them for as long as I can . After a few minutes , I can feel a mild irritation in the mouth , a soap smell and not long after that a cleaner mouth , a cleaner teeth , a cleaner tongue and most importantly a better breath . I think that Protease do have an effect on the lysis and growth of oral microflora . Will keep you posted .
Sadman,,,id like to urge you on coz i think youre closer to finding yo cure than you think
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:39 pm
by sadman
Aydinmur:
No, You can not cut their protein supplies. Saliva, serum, dead mucosal cells, dead bacterial cells, crevicular fluid contain alot of protein. They dont need your food to obtain protein.
Dont restrict yourself. Eat every thing. There is no diet to protect you from halitosis. (if your doc didnt advise some specific diet such as, tmau, lactose intolerance, diabetes, gout, etc).
What I mean is that if we can cut down ( not cut off , I used the wrong word ) the protein supplies to the bacteria as much as possible by breaking down the
protein in the food debris , the tongue coating which is formed by food debris, dead cells , dead bacteria with proteolytic enzyme , we can control the growth of bacteria
just like when we eat veggie diet ( may be you mis interpret my statement , I do not promote a restricted diet . A cure is not a cure if you can not eat anything you like just as no BB people ) :
BTW do you think that proteolytic enzyme can lyse some oral bacteria
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:47 pm
by seanlee1980
Very good read guys. I have actually got myself tested for Immunoglobulin deficiency a few years back. It turned out I do have low counts of IgA. I got myself tested because I thought my immune system was weak and the results were my confirmation.
My doctor told me there is no cure for immunoglobulin deficiency. He said there is a treatment of injecting myself with IgA, but this would be a lifetime treatment and would be very costly so I never went through the treatment.
I believe one of the main reason my immune system is weak is because I am easily stressed and nervous. Now, more so because of this bb condition. And, in turn our psychosis is another reason we have bb. My bb started around junior high school. This is when I was really introduced to stressful situations like making good grades, pleasing my demanding parents, fitting in with peers, competition, etc. It seems like this is the case for a lot of chronic bb sufferers.
I know it may sound cliche but diet, exercise and relaxation goes a long way in helping this condition and our overall health. I don't think Dr. Ayudinimar meant what he said about diet not having to do anything with bb. I know it's not a cure but eating whatever can make it worse.
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:05 pm
by ihatethebus
instead of goin back and forth about you can cut down protein and bli bla blo jus take protease and food grade animal hydrochloric acid tablets. will atleast eliminate the rotten odor fer ya in 3 days max.
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:57 pm
by sadman
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:43 am
by sadman
Enteric-coated proteolytic enzyme preparations like Wobenzym® and Phlogenzym® are widely used for the so-called ‘systemic enzyme therapy’ both in humans and animals. Numerous publications reveal that oral proteolytic enzymes are able to stimulate directly the activity of immune competent cells as well as to increase efficiency of some of their products. But origins of the immunostimulatory effects of oral proteolytic enzymes are still unclear. The hypothesis described here suggests that it may be proteolysis of intestinal microorganisms that makes the immune competent cells to work in the immunostimulatory manner. The hypothesis was largely formed by several scientific observations: First, microbial lysis products (lipopolysaccharides, muropeptides and other peptidoglycan fragments, β-glucans, etc.) are well known for their immunostimulatory action. Second, a normal human being hosts a mass of intestinal microorganisms equivalent to about 1kg. The biomass (mainly due to naturally occurring autolysis) continuously supplies the host’s organism with immunostimulatory microbial cell components. Third, the immunostimulatory effects resulting from the oral application of exogenously acting antimicrobial (lytic) enzyme preparations, such as lysozyme and lysosubtilin, are likely to be a result of the action of microbial lysis products. Fourth, cell walls of most microorganisms contain a considerable amount of proteins/peptides, a possible target for exogenous proteolytic enzymes. In fact, several authors have already shown that a number of proteases possess an ability to lyse the microbial cells in vitro. Fifth, the pretreatment of microbial cells (at least of some species) in vitro with proteolytic enzymes makes them more sensitive to the lytic action of lysozyme and, otherwise, pretreatment with lysozyme makes them more susceptible to proteolytic degradation. Sixth, exogenous proteases, when in the intestines, may participate in final steps of food-protein digestion. The resulting food-borne peptides have recently been shown to be potential activators of microbial autolysis. The main question that needs to be answered in order to verify the hypothesis is whether oral proteases are able (and to what extent) to lyse/mediate lysis of intestinal microorganisms in situ. Methods based on up-to-date molecular biology techniques to allow investigation of the influence of exogenous proteases on microbial lysis processes in vivo (in the intestines) need to be developed. Research testing of this hypothesis may have an important impact in development of novel preparations for the systemic enzyme therapy.
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:28 am
by john
sadman, how are you doing?
is creon still working for you?
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:14 am
by sadman
John :
I will post the result in one more month to make sure that it really works , but so far so g..oooooo.d . It's been a wonderful month for me since I started Creon on 09/03/10 .
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:23 am
by john
i went to my doctor yesterday, and he won't give me creon capsules, so maybe i can use proteolectic enzymes?
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:29 pm
by sadman
John :
PM me your address if you live in US , I can send you a sample for free ( 2 capsules). Believe it or not , you just have to try one capsule to know if it helps .
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:44 pm
by john
i don't live in the US sadman, but i can send you some money, so you can send me the capsules?
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:03 pm
by brightonguy
@sadman, I totally want to try creon!! For anyone that's interested (and in case there's any doubt i have no financial interest in this website yada yada yada) I use this website to get prescription meds when I know that the doctor won't give me what I want. Sadman, which of the two creon options should i choose from this link?
http://goldpharma.com/search/creon/lang/ENGLISH/
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:25 pm
by sadman
Brightonguy :
We have Creon 6000 , 12000 and 24000 in US . I tried them all and I found that Creon 12000 which has 12000 USP Lipase, 38000 USP Protease and 60000 USP per capsule is doing a good job . The one in your website does not have the same formulation as Creon 12000 since it has only 10000, 8000 and 600 of Lipase, Protease and Amylase in mg., not USP so I don't know if it's equivalent to Creon 12000 .
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:29 pm
by brightonguy
Thanks sadman. What's USP? How do I convert from that to mg do you know? Also, have you noticed any side effects? Any bleeding?
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:14 pm
by sadman
USP unit is a unit used in the United States to measure the potency of a vitamin or drug, that is, its expected biological effects. For each substance to which this unit applies, the U. S. Food and Drug Administration has determined the biological effect associated with a dose of 1 USP unit. Other quantities of the substance can then be expressed in terms of this standard unit. In most cases, the USP unit is equal to the international unit (IU). "USP" is a registered trademark of the United States Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., a private standards organization that establishes standards for the pharmaceutical industry.
international unit (IU)
*********************
a unit used to measure the activity (that is, the effect) of many vitamins and drugs. For each substance to which this unit applies, there is an international agreement specifying the biological effect expected with a dose of 1 IU. Other quantities of the substance are then expressed as multiples of this standard. Examples: 1 IU represents 45.5 micrograms of a standard preparation of insulin or 0.6 microgram of a standard preparation of penicillin. Consumers most often see IU's on the labels of vitamin packages: in standard preparations the equivalent of 1 IU is 0.3 microgram (0.0003 mg) for vitamin A, 50 micrograms (0.05 mg) for vitamin C, 25 nanograms (0.000 025 mg) for vitamin D, and 2/3 milligram for (natural) vitamin E. Please note: for many substances there is no definite conversion between international units and mass units (such as milligrams). This is because preparations of those substances vary in activity, so that the effect per milligram of one preparation is different from that of another.
Enzyme Potency
Measuring enzyme potency is complex. It is different than measuring the potency of vitamins, minerals or herbs. Accurate measurement depends on enzyme concentration, environment (pH and temperature) and substrate (the enzymes' fuel).
Because of this complexity, many scientific systems have been created to measure enzyme activity. The most common systems are: the Food Chemical Codex (FCC), United States Pharmacoepia (USP), and Federal Internationale Pharmaceutique (FIP). Each different enzyme system has an enzyme assay method with it own units of measurements.
Unfortunately, it is impossible to make direct comparisons between these measurement units (such as the FCC unit, the FIP unit and the USP unit). Each enzyme acts upon different substrates than others, so their activity needs to be measured using the most validated test method applicable to that particular enzyme.
The enzyme activity is not based on the amount of enzyme present, (which might be listed in milligram amounts) but rather how fast the enzyme breaks down the substrate (fuel) within the given parameters of the test method, such as pH or temperature (its environment).