Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

@ haligone,
One of my earlier posts in this topic was that just meeting people with the same problem (if indeed they really did have BB) for say 12 hours will hardly yield an objective result.Of course you will be able to tell if they have BB or not,but like i said,you need to 'live' with them for a while,that way you could try out all the possible variables that may give you the BB problem in the first place.Many here have have been cured but the process takes time and elimination,If it make you feel better then great,meet some people for a day,and some even have had long term relationships.
Personally,I am married so this most definitely is not a path i would like to take,but it would be a different story if i was single.
Regarding your other point,yes,i want to forget it is there,i have had this now for 36 years,and i think i deserve a break from it.Everyone on this forum has a different way of dealing it.Mine is simply to forget it,if i can,and not let it hold me back.Otherwise it simply eats you away.

Firebreath,

I am also married, but my partner does not notice the BB and thinks I am going loopy when I talk about it!! My brother-in-law also lives with us, and told me that he did not notice anything when I pulled up enough confidence to ask him sometime ago.
On the other hand, people I meet in public start showing reactions 5 or 10 minutes after we meet.

I agree that meeting someone for a day, or even a few hours would not (to put it bluntly) yield a cure, but as I said, for me, it is the honest feedback I would appreciate. If I could try out a few different things, such as rinse with a mouthwash or hydrogen peroxide, and get honest feedback as to what helps and what doesn’t, then that might help lead me down what path to take during a day to try to manage the intensity of BB.

I do acknowledge that everyone is different, and we all have different coping mechanisms. You asked a question as to why people meet up, and I was giving you my reasons for why I would want to meet someone. I am not saying my reasons are right, and I am not trying to convince you to start meeting people.

Just as a side note, you do not necessarily need to meet someone from the opposite sex if you’re not comfortable with that. I am currently looking to meet with someone from the forum who is male (as am I).

hey haligone its really nice to see that you are married,if you do not mind me asking a personal question and i hasten to add please do not be offended - your wife does not complain or say anything negative about your BB , but , does she 'kiss' you normally?(on the mouth) or does she shy away and only allows the cheek to be kissed? or makes any kind of excuse not to be kissed?

Also,u mention brother-in-law does not give you any negative feedback,but do you notice any gestures when he is with you?

I am puzzled if 2 really close people say nothing bad about your BB but you still consider having it when u meet new people?


Sorry , for such questions,i do not mean to be rude...
And my experience? kissing is rare,The rest of my relationship is great though,she sits,eats,drinks with me and we even share the same bed!

Again,some people here are very sensitive so please, if u do nor wish to share this then sorry.

I'd love to meet people but I live in Canada, anyone in Canada willing to meet ?!

brightonguy wrote:Meeting these three people was one of the best things I've done in my battle with BB because (a) I got to meet and talk to people with similar stories and experiences to me; (b) I got validation that my odour problem isn't there all the time; (c) I got to meet three really nice people

I totally agree with Brightonguy that meetups are good for all the reasons above. It's really bad for us bb sufferers to isolate ourselves - it goes against what is natural for all human beings - socialising is a necessity. I can't actually interact normally with 'normal' people unless I am not worried about my bb, which is never! When you meet people with the same problem as yourself, your fear of bb erodes. We (Brightonguy and myself) have found that when in relaxed company (the company of forum members, counsellors, practitioners you WANT to smell you to prove you are not insane) then the bb diminishes but when at work the bb is horrific. Stress and worry make everything so much worse. There is nobody I trust more in dealing with this bb nightmare than friends from the forum. The best part of meetups is that you can meet nice, sensitive people and enjoy each other's company without fear. This is a joy in itself. So UK people feel free to send me a message if u would like to meet. I have just been diagnosed with TMAU and am fearful of social gatherings with 'normal' people so I am grateful to members who are organising events for us bb aliens. I find strength in your support and hope to give strength to others as well.

Fire,

No problem at all, I am happy to answer questions, that’s what we are all here for, to share information.

My brother in law works nights, and I work during the day, so we don’t really get to see that much of each other, however I do not notice any gestures when I talk to him, although we usually talk just in passing, for instance if I bump into him in the kitchen.

My Mrs used to display signs of what I thought were reactions, but since I asked her about it, she has stopped completely, stating that it was just a natural thing she does to rest her chin in her hand. I must say I used to kiss her normally until I became totally obsessed with my own BB and then I stopped kissing her……. So if we don’t kiss, its my fault.

But to be honest, as Malory has stated, I always get the worst reactions at work, and even within myself I feel jittery at work, but when I am at home and relaxed, my mouth feels clean when I am at home but not at work……… and I know you would say I should try to relax, but that is the same as telling a poor man that ‘all he needs is some money’!!

Some people have a naturally poor sense of smell, and if I am around someone who does not react, I assume they must have a poor sense of smell, then I relax and I feel better…… but as soon as I see a reaction from them, I panic and its back to square one. I have a cousin who always sits with his hand near his nose, I don’t know if he is reacting to me or if it is a natural thing he does. His wife NEVER has any reactions to me… it is all very confusing!!

Anyway, you said in your post ‘I am puzzled if 2 really close people say nothing bad about your BB but you still consider having it when u meet new people’ and that is my exact reason for wanting to meet people from the forum. Because I cannot ask normal people who do not have a close relationship with me, and those close to me ‘claim’ they do not notice it, so my only option is to rely on volunteers from the forum.

Mal, I still have your number. Will call to have a chat soon.

Malory, 'congrats' on finally finding out the cause of your BB. Hard as it must be to find out you have TMAU, at least you know what you are dealing with and can target this.

What kind of test did you have? Where did you get tested? What type of TMAU do you have? Are you managing to control it?

Hi Halitosisux, I only found out yesterday that I had TMAU and was told by phone so I don't know which type it is yet although I assume it is the acquired type TMAU 2 'cause I never had any problems before the age of 30.

Since the age of 29 I carried parasites (blastocystis hominis and dientamoeba fragilis) in my intestines and maybe that's what did the damage to my gut's enzymes/equilibrium. I have now taken strong antibiotics to get rid of the parasites finally but that did not help my bb. Management of TMAU involves a cocktail of antibiotics and a diet. I'm going to start off with the diet because I don't think semi-permanent usage of antibiotics is a good plan. Also, I'm going to do hypnotherapy to try and address the mental stress/anxiety trigger.

To get tested:
I got a referral from my GP (painfully extracted) which I then posted to Dr Lachmann at the metabolic unit of the UCL neurosurgery hospital in Queens Square, London. I got an appointment several weeks later and took along a urine sample in the container (some acid in it) which the hospital had sent to me. I got the result 6 weeks later. I have been eating very choline-rich foods my whole life so it was easy for me to follow the choline diet you have to do the day before you do the urine sample.

The choline-reduced diet is hard but I've done lots of diets over the past 13 years so I should manage. I'll let you know the effectiveness of the diet I do.

haligone,My experience with BB is that you see all kinds of reactions from all kinds of people and from some absolutelty none at all.let me give you some examples...

10 years ago,i had a job at a major supermarket,one of the guys was kind enough to give me a lift to work and back,I used to sit with this guy at lunch,sometimes work with him on the same isle and stand close to him when talking,throughout the time he was there (about 2 years) he never did any gesture at all - it was as though i never smelt.However,the other staff (about 15 people) would all do varying degrees of gestures from keeping their hand over their noses whenever i was close by to breathing heavily ,one lady would even pull a 'disgusted face' when she came close by as well as putting a hand over her nose.

I now realize that everyone has their own way of dealing with smelling something awful.Some have a poor sense of smell,other don't care too much about it,and then some will do some outrageous gestures just to let us know that they can smell something bad.

But there are some really kind people , totally outstanding in this world,who are just so nice , that they do not want to hurt us - they simply love us too much for what we are and not for how we smell and these of course are our partners - what a blessing - eh?

I know i do smell but my wife simply does not want to hurt me,i can live with that and i no longer worry about it.

PM me , and i will PM back my number - i am in the birmingham , UK.
Anyone else,who just want to talk - PM me too.

Malory, well done for getting this tested for.
It would be great if you could make a thread detailing your whole story. Things like the odours you had, they symptoms you had, etc.

Hmmm, I can see we have a load of Doubting Thomases here Perhaps you guys think that I have a permanently blocked nose or something!

Surely, it must have struck you all as very strange that out of 40 or so members I have met, only 2 said they could detect odours at the meetups. So, infact 95% of us said we smelled nothing at all! What percentage would you have expected? Let me tell you what percentage I would have expected can't smell one another.... 5%. Yes, that's right 5% NOT 95%!

Let me make it plain, I can detect other people's bad breath in every day life! However, I can not detect people's body odour at all!

In case some of you are wondering if it is just me who has observed this wierd phenomenon of members not being able to smell each other at meetups, take a look at this message from Ice posted on this board 18 months ago:-

Ice
Advanced
Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 189
Location: South Europe
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hi,
well i meet with 3 others that have halitosis, but couldn't smell anyone and they didn't smell me....Had a great time with them;)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, so do you also think Ice doesn't have bb and the other 3 also didn't have bb? Or do you think they were relaxed and their bb was intermittent? Or do you think they were all successful in hiding their bb from each other?

I bet some of you are wondering if it is a new discovery of mine that 95% of group members attending our meetups can't smell one another? It isn't!

Look at the message below which I posted on an odour-related message board in January 2004 when I met the first person from our halitosis group who has bb:-

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:39 pm
I am curious about howmany of you have actually met anyone else from
the Group? I see this as an important starting point for support and
research and I would like to tell you all about my experiences of
meeting other members.

Yesterday, I met a lady in person whom I had been corresponding with
for quite a while (2-3 years). Like myself, she has strong fecal
breath odor and we initially made contact via an odor group.

We met up yesterday for the very first time. It was a long drive for
me but I was curious about this lady because she claimed to be able
to smell (and taste!) her own breath odor all the time. I can never
smell (let alone taste) my own odor.

Initially we met outside a foodstore and there was a slight mutual
awkwardness in making eye contact. However, as we sat at the table
in a Thai restaurant this quickly disappeared and I noticed that
neither of us seemed to be 'offending' each other.

Rather baffled, I asked her if it would be alright if I could have a
little sniff since we were the only diners in this restaurant. It
was perhaps an unusual request however she sort of expected it and
we blew full blast into each other's faces several times.

Okay, here's the bizarre bit....neither of us could smell a thing!!
Believe me, this is more than absurd since my odor has in the past
resulted in people resigning en mass at work

Well, it had to be a mistake! Something was wrong! Was she lying to
be polite? Absolutely not! We had agreed to be completely honest
with each other (no matter howmuch it hurt) so that we could help
each other control it!! I sniffed her hands and all I could detect
was a very slight odor of soap. Her breath smelled only extremely
faintly like a mint we get here called a tic-tac.

Okay, so what about my body odor (I have both breath and body
odor)? ...maybe she could detect that? Well...she looked a little
awkward and so we did it discretely. She went to powder her nose and
passed me on her return. I lifted my arm to scratch my head and she
sunk her nostrils into my arm pit. Hmmm...perhaps not so discrete!

Well?....nothing offensive! Only the slight odor of sweat!! Being
seated at a window seat we were proudly displaying our antics to
passers by on the busy High Street.

The waiter arrived looking a bit perplexed and bowing profusely (it
was a very traditional Thai restaurant). As he served us I noticed
that he had a very strong body odor - it was not fecal but strong
and strange. There was certainly nothing wrong with our sense of
smell!

After the meal we went to a pub and chatted and exchanged further
sniffs. I spent 6 hours with this lady in order to see if there was
any change in odor as a result of eating or drinking or talking
excessively but neither of us smelled anything!!

When the lady got home she phoned me to say that her son had smelled
a really strong unpleasant smell on her clothes after our meeting.
This happens with me a lot since my odor is very very strong.

Believe me, this is not the first time this has happened to me. Two
years back, I met a teenage girl from the support group who claimed
to have strong fecal halitosis and she came to my house several
times for a chat. Neither of us smelled anything!!

I have also worked with someone who is supposed to have either
breath or body odor but only once smelled a strange body odor on him
when he looked hot, sweaty and flustered. I also once had a friend
who had strong fecal breath odor which I could smell when I was 14
years old however my odor has got stronger since then and I can no
longer smell him any more.

Okay, so what am I trying to get at? Well it is this. If any of you
have similar odor descriptions and meet up in person then you are
perhaps unlikely to smell each other. Please do NOT assume the other
person is lying or mad!!! These are my observations. I hope nobody
is offended. Does anybody have any answers or a similar experience?

Scientist42 wrote:Let me make it plain, I can detect other people's bad breath in every day life! However, I can not detect people's body odour at all!

so at your meetups did you smell badbreath on anybody?

When I met up with someone from this forum we couldn't smell each other from a normal social distance..we couldn't smell each other when we got very close...but we then did the counting to ten test with our mouths basically on top of the other's nose...the result = I could smell garlic from the person's previous nights curry and they could smell somehing unidentifiable but apparently mild from me...the conclusion...if we were really cancelling each other out surely we would have been unable to smell anything?????

Ps: I'm not a doubting Thomas, Arun...I am just hoping and wishing that these meet ups with no odour means none of us have this problem all the time
Yours ever optimistically
Hooch

I went to the meet up in London on Saturday for people with BB and BO. There were about 12 of us there I think and I can honestly say I did not notice even the faintest hint of BB or BO on anyone. I am really glad I went and will go to future meet ups for sure. However, my conclusion certainly is not that we all smelt bad and simply didn’t notice how bad each other smelt. I am pretty convinced that none of us there smelt of anything. I’m a scientist and so I like to try and be scientific and therefore I validated whether or not I smelt by purposely and confidently talking to normal people at close range and I didn’t get a single reaction. If that’s not enough evidence for you then consider this: if a group of people with moderate to severe BB and BO problems can spend time in close proximity to normal people in a bar and these *normal* people don’t so much as flinch then in my mind the only conclusion is we didn’t smell. True to form my BB returned today when I was at work. I was unusually confident and spritely today cuz I had a smell free day on Saturday (and cuz it’s nearly Christmas – time off, yay) and so I talked to more people than normal. I got unequivocal reactions to my BB off every single person I talked to at work.

So what does all this mean? STRESS is an extremely important cause of BB and BO problems. We know this is the case for TMAU for example but the literature suggests otherwise for BB - I think the literature is fundamentally flawed in how it comes to this conclusion but that’s another post and I’m quite tired right now. One of the people I spoke to at the meet up also commented how their BB is worse at work and they had this theory about air conditioning exacerbating the problem via its drying effect (and possible one or more other mechanisms too).

In conclusion: RELAX as much as possible – yes I know it’s easier said than done. Additionally (in case you haven’t read other posts from me) STOP WASTING YOUR TIME AND MONEY on tongue brushing, mouthwashes and chewing gum because they don’t work and if anything only exacerbate your problem. Does it sound too easy that relaxing and doing none of that crap to your mouth is actually the best thing for you? Seemingly complex problems often have simple answers.