Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

I've been doing a bit of research on why antibiotics can't kill off bacteria in the mouth or elsewhere in the oral cavity area and sinuses, and have found a possible answer in the form of 'biofilms'. 'Biofilms' appear to be very sophisticated colonies of different types of bacteria, both free and anaerobic that live in our oral cavities, and who protect and speak to each other !! What chance do we have if bacteria communicate with each other

Have a read of the information on biofilms on the links below. The presence of 'biofilms' may explain why bad breath returns following a course of antibiotics. There is a bit in the 'latimes' article that mentions about the lifecycle of biofilms and how groups of cells detach and set up new 'biofilms' elsewhere. In my case, this could explain the sinus infection, continuous blocked nose, pnd, eustachian tube blockages, white tongue etc.

Frontier Pharmaceutical Inc. claim that their DioxiRinse mouthwash helps to remove 'biofilm' on the tongue. I think it may also treat candida albicans yeast infections of the mouth. It contains active chlorine dioxide unlike some mouthwashes like Profresh and CloSYS that apparently contain stabilized chlorine dioxide in the form of sodium clorite which is believed to have very little in the way of chlorine dioxide.

I have ordered some Dioxirinse along with the toothpaste to see if it works for me. The mouthwash is probably the most expensive item I've ever bought in my aim to erradicate this problem ($19) but it's worth a try. I'll let you know the outcome as soon as I receive it and start using it. It may be a while as orders take a little while to get to the middle east.

Here are some of the websites that I have looked at.

http://www.dentalcarestamford.com/pdf/D ... ofilms.pdf

http://www.c3-jian.com/pdfs/news-llatim ... -stamp.pdf

http://www.frontierpharm.com/

Hi OdourFree,
Interesting reading, i wouldnt be surprised if ENTs realise that certain strong distinctive odours coming from the nose are relating to biofilms, and knowing how difficult they are to eradicate, so its just dimissed as a harmless situation - But then again i wouldnt be surprised if they dont even know what a biofilm is.
Some relevant info from previous discussion:-
viewtopic.php?p=17983&highlight=#17983

Is it only the maxillary sinuses where attention is focused, or are all the sinuses usually investigated?
OdourFree, have you heard of Phage treatment? might be worth looking into.

Hi halitosisux
I should have known you guys would have investigated 'biofilms' already! Phage treatment is another area to look into certainly when I've exhausted treatments that are easily available to me.

In my case it was just the maxillary sinuses that were/are infected - I don't know how easy it is for bacteria to travel to the other sinuses such as frontal and ethmoid. I certainly believe that my eustachian tubes are also infected with this 'biofilm' bacteria. Perhaps if I use the Dioxirinse as a sinus irrigator it may kill off the biofilm

I believe that family doctors do not want to or have the time to investigate causes such as 'biofilms' in patients suffering with our problem. I was told by an ENT recently to 'gargle'. I said gargle with what and he said a mouth wash

I'm going to try grapefruit seed extract (as soon as it arrives) as a nasal irrigator. I know it's not a cure but if it can reduce the odour and horrible taste to an acceptable level at least I may be able to live a relatively normal existence until I find a cure.

Hi OdourFree,
Im not sure either on the other sinuses, but while reading your links yesterday and clicking on a few others, i read that they can cause problems.
The subject of biofilms is so interesting, there is a lot of hope with new research taking place at the moment, in so many fields.
It's worth trying different things like Dioxirinse to see what effect they might have.
I agree with you on the ENT ignorance, its hard for anyone who doesnt have BB to even begin to imagine the impact it can have on those who are sensitive to the perception others have of them.
To them its just a harmless smell - which they usually have no idea how to cure and dont want to get involved, so we are dismissed and forced to live with it - yet there are so many other afflictions that seem minor and easy in comparison to live with, but they are given respect and dignity which we dont get.

I use DioxiRinse as a pre-brushing mouthwash. I first use a tongue brush to remove as much of the coating as possible, then gargle/swish for a few minutes & spit out. I then hop in the shower and just let it go to work. I get out of the shower and brush & floss normally. I think it helps a lot as a pre-brushing rinse. For some reason using it at the end doesn't seem to help as there is a strange odor that it produces that lingers.

The toothpaste is rubbish, imo. It doesn't work as well for me.